Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

[Thebottomline]

Seems to me that FM was told pretty clearly that the case was being moved to unsolved homicides.
I also recall Caroline Overington stating in one of her articles that the inquest is the last stop before the case goes to a cold case.

I think the only hope that William has for justice is if the Coroner can compel some incriminating testimony. There are other serious crimes being committed daily, and I would (very sadly) not be at all surprised if - when the current OIC soon retires - Rosann is disbanded.

So very sad for the families . Without GJ I feel it’s doomed, fresh eyes are needed . Maybe I watch too many episodes of cold case.

 

[katydid23]

I have a feeling the interconnection and coincidences and the who knew who and why and how, would’ve reached peak crazy, hence why so many poi’s etc. Also probably part of the reason why the investigation was just a complete mess. Those with similar backgrounds and possible criminal history, family history etc. Those in the area/street and not being able to confirm exact times and cars and people. (Which was a dropped ball in the beginning because it was a lost child not a kidnapped child so there was no immediate lock down and questioning of those in the street in particular.) And then it seemed to me anyway that nearly everyone had the same basic level of questioning done and then they decided who needed further scrutiny or not. For me personally further initial probing would’ve been beneficial to the case.
Not being able to rule anyone 100% in or 100% out makes for many times around the merry-go-round. Frustrating all round but at least with GJ, I see someone who follows the lead until the end and then moves on. Completely exhausts the questioning/investigation, uncomfortable or not and then can decide to continue or discontinue investigation line.
It’s a small town, lots of older and long term residents, apparently high number of sex offenders in the area. Bound to be a number of very uncomfortable connections. JMOO

As to the bolded above, I disagree.

I don't think you can fault them, as 'dropping the ball', for seeing this as a lost child case at first.

Why would they assume he was kidnapped instead of being lost, perhaps in the neighbourhood or in the bush? Statistics would point to him being just another lost child, that would be found later that day in the woods, scared and cold.

If they had assumed he was kidnapped, not lost, and locked the neighbourhood down and begun interviewing neighbours , they could have missed the child in the yard a few blocks away or up a trail. He could have died of exposure while they were searching neighbourhood cars.

I think it is 20/20 hindsight, to look backwards now and say they 'dropped the ball.' JMO

 

[Thebottomline]

As to the bolded above, I disagree.

I don't think you can fault them, as 'dropping the ball', for seeing this as a lost child case at first.

Why would they assume he was kidnapped instead of being lost, perhaps in the neighbourhood or in the bush? Statistics would point to him being just another lost child, that would be found later that day in the woods, scared and cold.

If they had assumed he was kidnapped, not lost, and locked the neighbourhood down and begun interviewing neighbours , they could have missed the child in the yard a few blocks away or up a trail. He could have died of exposure while they were searching neighbourhood cars.

I think it is 20/20 hindsight, to look backwards now and say they 'dropped the ball.' JMO

I so agree on this. If William wasn’t a foster child I think so much would have been different . Not in the very early stages but in the following days.

 

[katydid23]

Gotta wonder why he was supposedly pursuing the postie ! Feel sorry for his wife.

From what I have read about this, he seemed to be obsessed and compulsive about this woman. It makes me even more suspicious about his connection to Will. It seems like PS is someone who can't control himself or his compulsions. JMO

 

[1968]

I so agree on this. If William wasn’t a foster child I think so much would have been different . Not in the very early stages but in the following days.

I think so too. Normal progression of investigation when a child disappears or is harmed. Family first, then friends, neighbours and visitors, known sex offenders, anyone with a beef etc
With WT such a complex history. 2 families to investigate - one with prior attempts to hide the child away. Extended family of that family, friends of that family...

 

[Deleted member 161976]

I think whoever took William was watching and took him when they saw FFC go in to make tea. The window to take him was so small. I believe it was opportunistic too, as the visit was early so unlikely abduction was planned. MOO

 

[interested64]

1. William did have shoes on
3. We only know Postie was due to visit Fgm. We don't know if they were friends or whether she did visit.
5. That was only a hypothesis GJ put to PS

I'm sure they've had a close look, but it would be handy to know if they have ruled her out and how.

Thinking..wildly,posty arrived to talk to fgm and ps saw this and went over to listen under the veranda imoo

 

[Ms Kite]

I think it is highly likely that FMs 'vision' was a retell of what Lindsey saw. Lindsey has been very protected right from the get-go. And for good reason, to keep her safe.
FMs 'vision' may have been published to hint to the perp that the police know more than the perp thinks.

Unlike others, I think a lot of thought has gone into how, when and why snippets of real clues have been published. No-one but the perp would have known that was a real clue.

Very interesting SA. This has set the brain cogs in motion... wondering what other 'clues' might be out there now.

 

[Blues Clues]

Thinking..wildly,posty arrived to talk to fgm and ps saw this and went over to listen under the veranda imoo

FGM's visit from the postie was due 2 days before the Foster Family arrived though. He wouldn't have come across William or is that not what you meant?

 

[Warshawski]

Assertion based on what the operatives in the bush had told him, maybe. The point being PS lied in the official police interview on the 16 August. When he was told just 2 weeks later on the 5th October, that there were photo's of him stopping near the suit and he was left to think about things. He started muttering about white top....all recorded by the surveillance in the home. The next day he phoned Jubes personally to correct his version, which is also recorded. I am wondering how long before the recording on the 5th were reviewed.

love & appreciate all you do & provide SoSo - however was it a typo ?

2 weeks after 16th August is not 5th October on my calendar, more like 3 weeks ( both significant re birthdays on my part )

 

[Warshawski]

Assertion based on what the operatives in the bush had told him, maybe. The point being PS lied in the official police interview on the 16 August. When he was told just 2 weeks later on the 5th October, that there were photo's of him stopping near the suit and he was left to think about things. He started muttering about white top....all recorded by the surveillance in the home. The next day he phoned Jubes personally to correct his version, which is also recorded. I am wondering how long before the recording on the 5th were reviewed.

hey SoSo, and re my previous thoughts:

Just wonder if Jubes is ‘throwing himself to the wolves’, in order to kick start further investigation re William.
I can’t fathom the stuff that came out in his trial as being relevant to that trial !
And I also struggle with the fact that all that was allowed to be presented !

Thank God for the Gods

 

[deugirtni]

Would Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert be considered junior? I'm not familiar with ranking and how that relates to senior and junior, but he was the officer in charge of the case, I would've thought to have that role he wouldn't be considered junior.

As per Lia Harris' tweet quoting GJ:
Jubelin is telling the court about the incident with Officer in Charge Craig Lambert and said after the altercation in the office “I found it astounding that a junior officer threatens to assault a senior officer and I was told to manage it as a management issue”.

But as per MSM articles, he doesn't seem to be so much a 'junior officer', but junior to Jubelin (which I'm guessing perhaps many, if not most of the officers would be, considering Jubelin had been there so long?), imo.:

The officer-in-charge of the case, Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert and Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin became involved in an altercation.
William Tyrrell clash: Lead detectives 'come to blows' during meeting about missing toddler | Daily Mail Online
===
Jubelin also revealed he and his deputy, Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert, almost came to blows in 2018 in a NSW Police headquarters meeting room over his continued scrutiny of Mr Savage.

He said he asked other investigators to step outside when Det Sgt Lambert, the designated officer in charge, said "you're just picking on him" in a briefing.
Lead Tyrrell cop says taping 'necessary'
===
On Monday, the court was played a police interview with Mr Jubelin, where he recounted a confrontation between himself and Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert on July 31, 2018. Mr Lambert was officer in charge of William's disappearance, while Mr Jubelin oversaw him as investigation supervisor.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ated-argument-court-told-20200210-p53zcu.html

 

[Warshawski]

Yep. Did you also read the part about Beacroft (unnamed, but you can tell it is her) being 'asked' to provide the police inquest evidence despite not being across the whole investigation?

I’m actually now feeling embarrassed! There’s just so much lacking in how the whole investigation has transpired... ‘politics’ having a part in the investigation of a ‘life’ is not acceptable to me. We need a better society than that IMO & I may present further

 

[Warshawski]

Do we think PS would've enlisted the help of his son or a friend to order a pharmaceutical online which purpose is generally thought of as an enhancer to sexual performance, when his wife was suffering from cancer? It might be somewhat difficult to explain the need for it? If prescribed by an MD for other uses, perhaps a pharmacy might be a better bet from which to purchase?

As it stands, I think we don't know where this info came from, whether it is verified, whether it was a regular script he was getting filled or just a one-time thing, whether it may have been prescribed for other reasons, yet now it is out there in the public domain for everyone to come to their own conclusions without knowing any of the facts. To me, this is exactly the type of behaviour that went on when BS was the POI of the day. imo.

Fair call D - just wondered if the Son of PS may’ve ordered online, since ‘online’ is a comfortable purchasing space for many today. No incriminations intended, but many questions remaining. ... no need for those questions if we had the answers re William . Best eh ..

 

[Warshawski]

As per Lia Harris' tweet quoting GJ:
Jubelin is telling the court about the incident with Officer in Charge Craig Lambert and said after the altercation in the office “I found it astounding that a junior officer threatens to assault a senior officer and I was told to manage it as a management issue”.

But as per MSM articles, he doesn't seem to be so much a 'junior officer', but junior to Jubelin (which I'm guessing perhaps many, if not most of the officers would be, considering Jubelin had been there so long?), imo.:

The officer-in-charge of the case, Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert and Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin became involved in an altercation.
William Tyrrell clash: Lead detectives 'come to blows' during meeting about missing toddler | Daily Mail Online
===
Jubelin also revealed he and his deputy, Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert, almost came to blows in 2018 in a NSW Police headquarters meeting room over his continued scrutiny of Mr Savage.

He said he asked other investigators to step outside when Det Sgt Lambert, the designated officer in charge, said "you're just picking on him" in a briefing.
Lead Tyrrell cop says taping 'necessary'
===
On Monday, the court was played a police interview with Mr Jubelin, where he recounted a confrontation between himself and Detective Sergeant Craig Lambert on July 31, 2018. Mr Lambert was officer in charge of William's disappearance, while Mr Jubelin oversaw him as investigation supervisor.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...ated-argument-court-told-20200210-p53zcu.html

Smacks to me of school boy games ( who’s d$#ks bigger )
And IMO the grandstanding & game playing is appalling. .. appalling Plus!
In this circumstance there’s a little boy at stake ; in other circumstance, there’s other strife & pain.

I’m firmly of the belief that this Group must all be aligned in their quest & must have everything else securely zippered!

 

[Warshawski]

(quote)
But prosecutor Philip Hogan said that was an excuse Jubelin came up with after finding himself in hot water over his "entirely improper inquisition on a vulnerable old man".

Jubelin violated Mr Savage's rights in circumstances where he didn't care if he was breaking the law or not, he said.

Mr Hogan accused Jubelin, 57, of making speeches instead of answering questions, avoiding responsibility for his actions, shifting blame and being untruthful.

A decision to find Jubelin had a legitimate interest in recording the conversation would render "comprehensive frameworks" around privacy and police surveillance "completely useless", the prosecutor said.

"The defence that has been asserted simply doesn't exist. No individual police officer is above the law."

Magistrate Ross Hudson reserved his decision until April 6.

Tyrrell family blast police 'agendas'

And I just wonder who made Phil Hogan ‘God’ ...a lot more water under the bridge IMO, but I’m grateful for this Case & its bringing back focus on William . And I do believe that was the intent of GJ.

For me there's no other explanation as to why so much should come to light / be explored in a Case supposedly about ‘unauthorised recordings’....

 

[deugirtni]

And I just wonder who made Phil Hogan ‘God’ ...a lot more water under the bridge IMO, but I’m grateful for this Case & its bringing back focus on William . And I do believe that was the intent of GJ.

For me there's no other explanation as to why so much should come to light / be explored in a Case supposedly about ‘unauthorised recordings’....

I might be way off base, but I believe Karinna was only trying to make the point that just because GJ says/said something, doesn't mean it is true or that his interpretation is correct, and used prosecutor Hogan as an example of someone seemingly respectable who has also undoubtedly seen a lot in his career, and disagrees with GJ. imo.

Edit to add italicized part.

 

[Warshawski]

And GJ was also accused at Trial by the Prosecutor for being untruthful to cover his own butt. So take your pick i guess.

Do you reckon he’d keep his job if he couldn’t at least make an accusation of lying against the accused at the time ?

seriously, Imo, this is a very sad situation. Someone must know something of that day, no matter how minute, yet the huge reward hasn’t flushed them out.

Seems time for a different tactic (let’s charge Det Jube maybe) let’s cast the net wider ...

 

[Warshawski]

I might be way off base, but I believe Karinna was only trying to make the point that just because GJ says/said something, doesn't mean it is true or that his interpretation is correct, and used prosecutor Hogan as an example of someone seemingly respectable who has also undoubtedly seen a lot in his career, and disagrees with GJ. imo.

Edit to add italicized part.

yep, understood - as is applicable to the presenting argument on the other side

 

[musicaljoke]

2 weeks after 16th August is not 5th October on my calendar, more like 3 weeks ( both significant re birthdays on my part )

Don't forget about September. Heh.