Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[Charlot123]

The recent Texas case where a teenage boy intervened to save a younger kid from a bully, but then got killed by the bully a few days later (Texas teen killed by bully he stopped, police say) has me wondering again whether this was a revenge oriented incident involving other students.

No, I don't have anything in mind. Just always felt the perp was young.

I am not sure about the age (the voice is croaky), but I think of a parent being revengeful. For example, a kid committed suicide and they are blaming anyone who was spreading rumors (e.g., about the person’s sexual orientation). And maybe they blame a group, and plan to deal with the members, one-by-one. Or perhaps they blame kids for bullying their child?

Not specifically about this case, just an example when people would be waiting for years. Interestingly, the bullies might have even been the kids’ parents, and it could have happened years ago.

 

[Gumbeaux]

I truly believe they are have someone in mind. Seems to be so many possible messages to the killer (killers?) in each LE interview in recent weeks. With the FBI seemingly no longer actively involved, does that mean they are truly waiting for that blessed one tip from someone close to the suspect?

The mixed messages on the two sketches still confound me. Perhaps the first released image (older guy) IS the killer, and the younger appearing sketch could be a relative. Could be a tactic to urge a confession from the actual suspect or suspect’s wife, to protect that younger family member??

All entirely speculation, it’s what we do here!

 

[Charlot123]

Not too many inches.
One of my family members is between 5’5” and 5’6” and slouches. Slouching as he might, he still will not pass for a 5’9”. Someone recently had a surgery for severe slouching. 2’ plus. But not 4 inches.

Plus, to me it looks as if the person rather had short neck than was slouching.

Sorry! Mistake. I think autocorrect, even. 6’5-6.55”. (Really tall). So slouching or not, he can not turn into 5’8”. I think the man is not slouching but has a short neck, and is looking down.

 

[Charlot123]

I truly believe they are have someone in mind. Seems to be so many possible messages to the killer (killers?) in each LE interview in recent weeks. With the FBI seemingly no longer actively involved, does that mean they are truly waiting for that blessed one tip from someone close to the suspect?

The mixed messages on the two sketches still confound me. Perhaps the first released image (older guy) IS the killer, and the younger appearing sketch could be a relative. Could be a tactic to urge a confession from the actual suspect or suspect’s wife, to protect that younger family member??

All entirely speculation, it’s what we do here!

I think you are right about the tactic.
My other version - they simply made a sketch of BG in his school years. Maybe even from a photo.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't think that is the sign Carter is talking about in the podcast. The reporter asks about the memorial at the Nature Reserve sign and Carter talks about going left or right. I think it may be this sign, the 501 trail. What do you think. I'd like to know who made the signs and/or installed them. Notice the Monon High Bridge section of the sign is gone I assume since the bridge is closed for repair.
Taking Back the Trail
2 years later, no arrest yet in Delphi killings

I'm not really sure which sign he was referring to ( I haven't heard the podcast) or whether there was tape at the Nature reserve sign. I've only seen that pic of tape with the gate in the background which looks like the trailhead gate. Where exactly is the Nature Reserve sign? Is it at the junction of the 501 and 505 trails?

(ETA my post was answering a poster who mentioned the trail sign.)

 

[tresir2012]

I would like to mention that, after having read the last 3ish pages, there are a lot of things being mentioned on here as fact that have ever been verified as fact. They are things that have been speculated about so frequently that they’ve eventually become “facts” of the case that aren’t known to be true at all.

There is enough misinformation that it’s really not worth sending moderators after every piece, but I encourage everyone to search for sources of any info they find before they run with it and form/post theories.

Additionally, keep in mind that the info being stated by LE appears to all be targeted to the perpetrator in some attempt to appeal to his conscience (which clearly isn’t working at all), which makes it sound so mysterious and gives the impression that LE has huge amounts of info that the general public isn’t aware of - but it’s just as likely that all they’re doing is grasping at straws and they don’t have much at all.

In particular, that bizarre press conference last year where they said the perpetrator could be in the room right then, and could have just watched the movie “The Shack” only days before really seemed to be targeted to a specific FBI profile - and clearly generated no forward movement in the case whatsoever.

So, don’t agonize over trying to analyze every single thing these investigators say because I’m not sure even they know what they’re talking about a good chunk of the time. It has to be so incredibly frustrating to them, as I do believe they’ve really put every effort they can into this investigation and there’s still no arrest and no justice. It drives me crazy as just some random person, so it must be even worse to he actually working the case and still not able to get anywhere.

What specifics in particular are you referring to in your first paragraph where facts may not have been ? Just so we know.

 

[sunshineray]

I would like to mention that, after having read the last 3ish pages, there are a lot of things being mentioned on here as fact that have ever been verified as fact. They are things that have been speculated about so frequently that they’ve eventually become “facts” of the case that aren’t known to be true at all.

There is enough misinformation that it’s really not worth sending moderators after every piece, but I encourage everyone to search for sources of any info they find before they run with it and form/post theories.

Additionally, keep in mind that the info being stated by LE appears to all be targeted to the perpetrator in some attempt to appeal to his conscience (which clearly isn’t working at all), which makes it sound so mysterious and gives the impression that LE has huge amounts of info that the general public isn’t aware of - but it’s just as likely that all they’re doing is grasping at straws and they don’t have much at all.

In particular, that bizarre press conference last year where they said the perpetrator could be in the room right then, and could have just watched the movie “The Shack” only days before really seemed to be targeted to a specific FBI profile - and clearly generated no forward movement in the case whatsoever.

So, don’t agonize over trying to analyze every single thing these investigators say because I’m not sure even they know what they’re talking about a good chunk of the time. It has to be so incredibly frustrating to them, as I do believe they’ve really put every effort they can into this investigation and there’s still no arrest and no justice. It drives me crazy as just some random person, so it must be even worse to he actually working the case and still not able to get anywhere.

I'm not over analyzing just taking to heart ISP Carter's words at the third anniversary of these children being murdered. He gives me hope where I wasn't feeling much.

..."Eventually, somebody will do the right thing. It might be the killer himself; might be a person who knows who he is."...

...Carter said. "We can't talk about what we think. Everybody else can. Or what they believe happened. We can't. There has been some criticism of me, and I'm willing to take that. I can't explain all the things that I know."...

..."He has no idea what we know, but one day he will," Carter added.


ISP: 'One piece away' from solving Delphi homicides

 

[JudgeJudi]

Websleuths has just become even more awesome. Some people obviously already know, but I’ve just discovered that Tricia has created a Websleuths channel on YouTube.

Websleuths

Well done @Tricia, this is a great idea.

 

[Kudzuu]

My take... wrong place wrong time re the girls. If they'd turned right, they might not have been good targets. So sad. As for the sign, bench, etc at the trail head, I agree... that was odd and made me wonder what happened at the trialhead 1) to make him say that, and 2) to say that the "crime scene" included the trail head.

It said No HUNTING or motorized vehicles. JMO, could that have given him pause? If I were DC it would have caught my eye.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think you are right about the tactic.
My other version - they simply made a sketch of BG in his school years. Maybe even from a photo.

I don’t know but wouldn’t it be kind of unusual for an LE to blatantly lie to the public about the source of the sketch? I’m imagining a future trial where there’s no such witness because LE entirely fabricated the sighting and how a good defense team might cast doubt on the integrity of the entire investigation due to this public deception.

BBM

“The new sketch presents a different look to the suspect, who appears younger and clean-shaven as opposed to older with traces of facial hair as he did in the initial sketch. Authorities later clarified that this sketch was of a different person.

“(The new sketch) is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge,” Riley said.

The "new" sketch also isn't that new. The IndyStar reports that it was drawn on Feb. 17, 2017, days after the girls' bodies were killed, according to ISP Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, who drew the sketch. He said it was based on a witness' description of a suspect.

"The witness is the main focus. So there’s no input from law enforcement at all in the generating of a sketch, other than my presence as the artist," Bryant said...”
Review all of the evidence in the Delphi murders case that's been publicly released

 

[No it's not]

HLN Podcast "Down the hill" Part 4 released:

https://www.downthehillpodcast.com/

 

[Kudzuu]

I'm just going to throw this out there, to the religious or non or in between, I mean no disrespect to the victims, their families or anyone who reads this.

I watched the movie, The Shack and summarized it in a post. At the time I took it literally, meaning the shack could have something to do with the crime scene. However, this movie or book is one that I'd never heard of, but many people had, especially those who read fiction involving Christianity. That is why I think DC mentioned it. The basic theme is the main character "loses" his religion because his daughter is murdered. In the daytime, in the woods, is quickly noticed missing...sound familiar? The Holy Trinity is personified and the man journeys back to being a believer.

Here is the zinger. I am listening to the podcast The Daily Audio Bible, and of course I'm behind. Yesterday I got to February 13th. The Gospel reading was Matthew 27:32 - 66. I immediately thought of how rattled DC was at the presser when he said (not quoting but something to this effect) I am sure they are not experiencing now the way you left them. Someone correct me please if you can clarify the meaning or give his exact words.

Could BG be mocking the police, the victims, the families, someone in particular, or the religious community? I don't know and this is just wild speculation. But the religious twist in this case is unlike most where they ask for prayers and to give the family privacy. I'm thinking the reading could be about the crime scene and perhaps there is a connection. I do not know for a fact that the readings are the same from year to year in the DAB, but my Daily Bible readings are the same this year as a couple of years ago. I found it odd that reading is on the anniversary of Abby and Libby's deaths.

Sorry for the long post, and MOO. I hope I am wrong in even thinking this. Because it would be pure evil.

 

[tresir2012]

Sorry! Mistake. I think autocorrect, even. 6’5-6.55”. (Really tall). So slouching or not, he can not turn into 5’8”. I think the man is not slouching but has a short neck, and is looking down.

He could have been a slouching teen (18 year old) who has since grown a couple of inches. MOO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I would like to mention that, after having read the last 3ish pages, there are a lot of things being mentioned on here as fact that have ever been verified as fact. They are things that have been speculated about so frequently that they’ve eventually become “facts” of the case that aren’t known to be true at all.

There is enough misinformation that it’s really not worth sending moderators after every piece, but I encourage everyone to search for sources of any info they find before they run with it and form/post theories.

Additionally, keep in mind that the info being stated by LE appears to all be targeted to the perpetrator in some attempt to appeal to his conscience (which clearly isn’t working at all), which makes it sound so mysterious and gives the impression that LE has huge amounts of info that the general public isn’t aware of - but it’s just as likely that all they’re doing is grasping at straws and they don’t have much at all.

In particular, that bizarre press conference last year where they said the perpetrator could be in the room right then, and could have just watched the movie “The Shack” only days before really seemed to be targeted to a specific FBI profile - and clearly generated no forward movement in the case whatsoever.

So, don’t agonize over trying to analyze every single thing these investigators say because I’m not sure even they know what they’re talking about a good chunk of the time. It has to be so incredibly frustrating to them, as I do believe they’ve really put every effort they can into this investigation and there’s still no arrest and no justice. It drives me crazy as just some random person, so it must be even worse to he actually working the case and still not able to get anywhere.

Yes it makes for a sort of fascinating sort of reality game to imagine DC’s verbal comments are specifically designed with one specific suspect in mind and so he’s speaking directly to a certain (guess who) person whenever he appeals to the public for tips.

JMO the belief that LE somehow know who is guilty can also become an obstacle to LE in seeking helpful tips from the general public. Because if somebody out there is reluctant to directly involve themselves by sharing incriminating information about a certain person.....why bother if LE already knows?

I think the answer is LE is sincere is pleading for tips because they genuinely don’t know. If they did know, charges would be laid.

 

[tresir2012]

I'm just going to throw this out there, to the religious or non or in between, I mean no disrespect to the victims, their families or anyone who reads this.

I watched the movie, The Shack and summarized it in a post. At the time I took it literally, meaning the shack could have something to do with the crime scene. However, this movie or book is one that I'd never heard of, but many people had, especially those who read fiction involving Christianity. That is why I think DC mentioned it. The basic theme is the main character "loses" his religion because his daughter is murdered. In the daytime, in the woods, is quickly noticed missing...sound familiar? The Holy Trinity is personified and the man journeys back to being a believer.

Here is the zinger. I am listening to the podcast The Daily Audio Bible, and of course I'm behind. Yesterday I got to February 13th. The Gospel reading was Matthew 27:32 - 66. I immediately thought of how rattled DC was at the presser when he said (not quoting but something to this effect) I am sure they are not experiencing now the way you left them. Someone correct me please if you can clarify the meaning or give his exact words.

Could BG be mocking the police, the victims, the families, someone in particular, or the religious community? I don't know and this is just wild speculation. But the religious twist in this case is unlike most where they ask for prayers and to give the family privacy. I'm thinking the reading could be about the crime scene and perhaps there is a connection. I do not know for a fact that the readings are the same from year to year in the DAB, but my Daily Bible readings are the same this year as a couple of years ago. I found it odd that reading is on the anniversary of Abby and Libby's deaths.

Sorry for the long post, and MOO. I hope I am wrong in even thinking this. Because it would be pure evil.

For reference, here's a link to the passage you mention that comes up in ESV bible for Feb 13th. ( this may not be exact as it does depend what version your audio bible is based upon)

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 27:32-66 - English Standard Version

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm just going to throw this out there, to the religious or non or in between, I mean no disrespect to the victims, their families or anyone who reads this.

I watched the movie, The Shack and summarized it in a post. At the time I took it literally, meaning the shack could have something to do with the crime scene. However, this movie or book is one that I'd never heard of, but many people had, especially those who read fiction involving Christianity. That is why I think DC mentioned it. The basic theme is the main character "loses" his religion because his daughter is murdered. In the daytime, in the woods, is quickly noticed missing...sound familiar? The Holy Trinity is personified and the man journeys back to being a believer.

Here is the zinger. I am listening to the podcast The Daily Audio Bible, and of course I'm behind. Yesterday I got to February 13th. The Gospel reading was Matthew 27:32 - 66. I immediately thought of how rattled DC was at the presser when he said (not quoting but something to this effect) I am sure they are not experiencing now the way you left them. Someone correct me please if you can clarify the meaning or give his exact words.

Could BG be mocking the police, the victims, the families, someone in particular, or the religious community? I don't know and this is just wild speculation. But the religious twist in this case is unlike most where they ask for prayers and to give the family privacy. I'm thinking the reading could be about the crime scene and perhaps there is a connection. I do not know for a fact that the readings are the same from year to year in the DAB, but my Daily Bible readings are the same this year as a couple of years ago. I found it odd that reading is on the anniversary of Abby and Libby's deaths.

Sorry for the long post, and MOO. I hope I am wrong in even thinking this. Because it would be pure evil.

Religion is usually a topic we're supposed to stay away from on WS, but I think it's safe to say that, imo, LE thinks BG was raised in the church and would recognize references to forgiveness, wholeness after death, etc.

jmo

 

[Eclipsed]

It said No HUNTING or motorized vehicles. JMO, could that have given him pause? If I were DC it would have caught my eye.

No hunting but there is a deer stand?

 

[Charlot123]

I'm just going to throw this out there, to the religious or non or in between, I mean no disrespect to the victims, their families or anyone who reads this.

I watched the movie, The Shack and summarized it in a post. At the time I took it literally, meaning the shack could have something to do with the crime scene. However, this movie or book is one that I'd never heard of, but many people had, especially those who read fiction involving Christianity. That is why I think DC mentioned it. The basic theme is the main character "loses" his religion because his daughter is murdered. In the daytime, in the woods, is quickly noticed missing...sound familiar? The Holy Trinity is personified and the man journeys back to being a believer.

Here is the zinger. I am listening to the podcast The Daily Audio Bible, and of course I'm behind. Yesterday I got to February 13th. The Gospel reading was Matthew 27:32 - 66. I immediately thought of how rattled DC was at the presser when he said (not quoting but something to this effect) I am sure they are not experiencing now the way you left them. Someone correct me please if you can clarify the meaning or give his exact words.

Could BG be mocking the police, the victims, the families, someone in particular, or the religious community? I don't know and this is just wild speculation. But the religious twist in this case is unlike most where they ask for prayers and to give the family privacy. I'm thinking the reading could be about the crime scene and perhaps there is a connection. I do not know for a fact that the readings are the same from year to year in the DAB, but my Daily Bible readings are the same this year as a couple of years ago. I found it odd that reading is on the anniversary of Abby and Libby's deaths.

Sorry for the long post, and MOO. I hope I am wrong in even thinking this. Because it would be pure evil.

I don’t think BG is mocking anyone. I think he is scared.

However... the police may be making a crucial mistake if they are focusing on Delphi people. Unless they know who the DNA belongs to. If they do, it becomes a game with BG for them.

But reading through old Chikatilo case, I was surprised at the similarity of the thinking. This is why I am not sure psychological portraits necessarily apply. The police thought it was a gang of youths, for whom killings were initiation, that these were satanist, or small sectarian groups. They arrested (and shot) someone, they went after gays, after known pedophiles. It ended up being one quiet guy, a teacher, with impotence.

So unless they have touch DNA of a person who had no business being next to Abby and Libby, they may still not know.

 

[Eclipsed]

Maybe he meant that for some reason, the perp needed to take the left turn towards the bridge, no matter what? That he had something to do on the bridge, looking for someone, meeting someone?

The “left turn” is also directed at BG, or whoever DC suspects.

About staring...I don’t know. Maybe BG has staring spells?

I would not be surprised if there are several poi’s in DC’s head, so he’d address each of them, periodically.

I think DC speaks in tongues...

Ahh, perhaps BG had to make a 'left turn' to get back to his parked vehicle by the abandoned CPS building.

 

[tresir2012]

No hunting but there is a deer stand?

The deer stand is on private ground not in the Nature Reserve AFAIK.