Found Deceased MT - Amy Harding-Permann, 34, Great Falls, 26 Jan 2020

[jbennett]

I wonder who the Jacqueline is that they tried to contact but was uncooperative last time??
I think the operator probably told him to try and separate himself from her since she was attacking him and that's when he replies he can't stay separated from her.

 

[muppethead]

Knowing full well they will show up.

However, the SO is always looked at first, and from what I read he had "defensive" wounds. How do you explain them away if you don't report first? No judgment from me either way - it seems odd that people around them have said so little.

 

[Alethea]

If you murdered someone, would you call the police & say that someone was still in the house? Very risky. Still, could be a brilliant cover story.

But LE would be able to hear what was going on in the background. Wouldn't you call "after" the altercation and say she ran out of the house to come quickly if this was a staged cover-up?

I guess LE wouldn't want to release the audio in either case. If the audio is quiet and there's no struggle, there's an investigative reason to hold it back - it would be part of a case against JVG regarding a fake struggle. If the audio has Amy screaming and fighting in the background, it is damaging to the victim and LE might hold it back to protect the search and rescue efforts. LE generally does NOT disclose if missing people have had drug or alcohol issues because it can bias the public from helping or caring about the missing person.

If you swapped the genders here I think most people would believe a drunk husband was beating his wife and ran out the door drunk when the cops showed up and fell into the icy river. I know it's harder to swallow with the roles reversed.

 

[The Night Watchman]

If Amy was heard on the 911 call, it appears that LE has allowed JVG to get crucified on social media and in the court of public opinion. He would be victim that lost his girlfriend, and I find that unacceptable.

 

[Dave F.]

If Amy was heard on the 911 call, it appears that LE has allowed JVG to get crucified on social media and in the court of public opinion. He would be victim that lost his girlfriend, and I find that unacceptable.

The sheriff made it very clear that they would not release any results of their investigation until it had been thoroughly worked. Social media and the court of public opinion jumped the gun, as they always seem to do. This time, they were wrong. Very wrong IMO

 

[Jethro4WS]

The log specifically states that they attempted to "ping" her phone. That is the cellular method of establishing a connection between the cell on the tower and the physical phone, initiated by the tower cell, which inherently locates the phone's exact distance from the tower. That distance can be easily plotted on a map as an arc across the cell coverage area. In this instance, there were few pathways available to her that would have intersected that arc, giving LE an excellent and quick idea of where to look. Since the ping did not locate the phone, which they knew was most likely within the cell coverage, the logical conclusion was that the phone was turned off, or disabled.
I have placed a red arrow on this screenshot from Cellmappers.com showing the narrow cell that her phone would have been in. IMO
Verizon (United States of America) Cell Tower Map

I never said they didn't attempt to ping the phone.

 

[bwt42]

But LE would be able to hear what was going on in the background. Wouldn't you call "after" the altercation and say she ran out of the house to come quickly if this was a staged cover-up?

I guess LE wouldn't want to release the audio in either case. If the audio is quiet and there's no struggle, there's an investigative reason to hold it back - it would be part of a case against JVG regarding a fake struggle. If the audio has Amy screaming and fighting in the background, it is damaging to the victim and LE might hold it back to protect the search and rescue efforts. LE generally does NOT disclose if missing people have had drug or alcohol issues because it can bias the public from helping or caring about the missing person.

If you swapped the genders here I think most people would believe a drunk husband was beating his wife and ran out the door drunk when the cops showed up and fell into the icy river. I know it's harder to swallow with the roles reversed.

What I'm saying is that a story would be more believable if he said she was still there when he calls 911.

 

[rkendmar]

What I'm saying is that a story would be more believable if he said she was still there when he calls 911.

If Amy had already left the residence, would LE even show up?

 

[Razz]

Had they NOT heard Amy in the background, would they be investing all this time and resources looking for her? Probably not.

I'm suprised he didn't lock her out the 1st time she left.

An angry drunk woman is a dangerous thing. Many years ago, a friend ran barefoot on a dark dirt road (about 3 miles) from a party, to a home where some of her friends were. Can't believe she had the wherewithal to navigate the road in the dark, but she did. She never explained what happened that night but she was scared to death and very drunk.

 

[PommyMommy]

If Amy was heard on the 911 call, it appears that LE has allowed JVG to get crucified on social media and in the court of public opinion. He would be victim that lost his girlfriend, and I find that unacceptable.

I don't follow on SM but I believe you. Seems like someone is always getting crucified there. MOO

 

[Strangeworld]

If Amy was heard on the 911 call, it appears that LE has allowed JVG to get crucified on social media and in the court of public opinion. He would be victim that lost his girlfriend, and I find that unacceptable.

The sheriff made it very clear that they would not release any results of their investigation until it had been thoroughly worked. Social media and the court of public opinion jumped the gun, as they always seem to do. This time, they were wrong. Very wrong IMO

I don't follow on SM but I believe you. Seems like someone is always getting crucified there. MOO

I find it harder to follow cases now, because of the many people that jump to conclusions so fast - it just creates this heavy negative and biased cloud over what is already very sad situations for those involved. I'm not talking about sleuthing, that's what the majority of people on sites like WS are about - understanding the factors and dynamics of a case and following along as more details are revealed. I just get so frustrated now when I open a thread and a few posts in some people are saying, ooh I know what's happened here he/she did it. I can't imagine how innocent people cope with these situations when they are accused of horrible things.

I still am unsure what's happened in this case, but the recent release of the 911 info is enlightening. I just wish that if this turns out to be a truthful report of assault, that those who were quick to accuse are also quick to apologise for their judgements.

 

[bwt42]

If Amy had already left the residence, would LE even show up?

I hope they would respond to a reported assault.

 

[rkendmar]

Any thoughts on the following?

1) Why did the sheriff and county attorney release the 911 call transcript? Is the release a legal requirement? In what way would this benefit the investigation?

2) I am unable to find any information that AHP was seen by LE after their arrival at the residence.

01/26/20 21:35:11 | STANDY SEARCH AND RESCUE FOR POSSIBLE ICE RESCUE

 

[The Night Watchman]

I find it harder to follow cases now, because of the many people that jump to conclusions so fast - it just creates this heavy negative and biased cloud over what is already very sad situations for those involved. I'm not talking about sleuthing, that's what the majority of people on sites like WS are about - understanding the factors and dynamics of a case and following along as more details are revealed. I just get so frustrated now when I open a thread and a few posts in some people are saying, ooh I know what's happened here he/she did it. I can't imagine how innocent people cope with these situations when they are accused of horrible things.

I still am unsure what's happened in this case, but the recent release of the 911 info is enlightening. I just wish that if this turns out to be a truthful report of assault, that those who were quick to accuse are also quick to apologise for their judgements.

I'm big on statistics. Statistically speaking (and IMO), with what we knew from the LE details, and without the 911 call information that was held back by LE, the boyfriend was more likely than not to have been involved in Amy's disappearance. Based on many similar cases.

Now I would never state that here or anywhere, since the boyfriend is either an innocent victim OR guilty of something. Not a lot of grey area in between those two extremes. And more likely guilty than not is a meaningless phrase unless you are the Patriots.

WS has a lot of smart people with open minds, so quick to judge statements are generally challenged by someone, IMO.

 

[rkendmar]

I hope they would respond to a reported assault.

Does LE respond if the alleged assaulter has left?
JVG declined medical attention.

 

[iluvmua]

Does LE respond if the alleged assaulter has left?
JVG declined medical attention.

I' m sure they wanted to check to see if everyone was ok etc.

 

[Alethea]

Any thoughts on the following?

1) Why did the sheriff and county attorney release the 911 call transcript? Is the release a legal requirement? In what way would this benefit the investigation?

2) I am unable to find any information that AHP was seen by LE after their arrival at the residence.

01/26/20 21:35:11 | STANDY SEARCH AND RESCUE FOR POSSIBLE ICE RESCUE

911 calls are public records and can be requested by the media under state FOIA statutes. LE can petition to withhold them if they will actively interfere with an active criminal investigation but if they withhold without a basis the press can file a lawsuit to get the records.

 

[Alethea]

Does LE respond if the alleged assaulter has left?
JVG declined medical attention.

Yes it is the state that determines whether to press charges once they are informed of an assault. In some states the domestic violence laws let/push the state to file charges even if the victim doesn’t want to. So LE will always come to a report of domestic violence even if the caller says ok the incident is over. You are allowed to press charges whenever, though your case is better if there’s contemporaneous evidence like the police seeing fresh scratches and hearing a dispute on the 911 call.

 

[Dave F.]

Does LE respond if the alleged assaulter has left?
JVG declined medical attention.

Does LE respond if the alleged assaulter has left?
JVG declined medical attention.

In my post No. 639 of this thread, I cited the actual statute defining assault in Montana. In light of the 911 dispatch notes, the assault occurred when she
"(c) purposely or knowingly makes physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature with any individual;". As soon sheriff's office was given this information, they had a duty to respond. IMO

 

[rkendmar]

911 calls are public records and can be requested by the media under state FOIA statutes. LE can petition to withhold them if they will actively interfere with an active criminal investigation but if they withhold without a basis the press can file a lawsuit to get the records.

Thank you for explaining this.
Apparently, in this case the transcript of the 911 call was released but the audio will not be released.
So the 911-transcript doesn't interfere with an active investigation but the 911-audio does?