Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #19

[BigAl16]

West Yellowstone does have an airport. It's open and has commercial service during the tourist season (usually June to September). There used to be an air taxi service but I don't think that's been in business for several years (friend of my brother's worked for them). Pretty sure the current commercial flights are through Delta Connection and connect from...wait for it...Salt Lake City.

There is or used to be an Avis that operates all year to serve the snowmobile and hunting crowd and I'm pretty sure Budget is there in the summer.

And there are shuttles and bus service to Bozeman, and the Bozeman airport as well.

I'll consider myself corrected on Delta flying there. I've spent a ton of time in the SL airport and don't remember ever hearing an an anouncement for a flight to West Yellowstone, but since my time was normally spent away from the terminal where most Sky West flights go from I might not have noticed.

When I searched for "car rental" on Google maps I came up with Budget in West Yellowstone, but trying to search for Avis specifically it came up as well. Google doesn't have Avis tagged as car rental for some reason, but it shows both of them at the airport when I zero in on it.

 

[yawningreyhound]

Since it was a new thread, I just read the intro threads thoroughly again. This is one of the most intriguing cases with its crossed webs. Shanann Watts (Chris Watts), Kelsey Berreth (Patrick Frazee) and Travis Alexander (Jodi Arias) were comparatively straight forward compared to this. Looking for motive still. The closest I can come is that comment on Dateline that LV wanted to save her children from the exposure of the end times which she didn't want "them to go through." I thought maybe Tylee saw more than she let on with the murder of CV, but I'm not so sure now. LV seems like an on and off nutcase, whichever suits her at the moment. Why the seduction of CDaybell? Why the sudden marriage of LV's bro AC that finds him dead weeks later? Why the death of TDaybell? Why the fall of CDaybell from being apparently respected? Why the attempt on Melani's ex's life? (maybe THAT was all about custody, but why the shot fired from dead CV's jeep?) The trail of dead bodies and ruined lives that follow this woman are gobsmacking.

 

[HaikuMommy]

That's why Lori's attorney called the 5 million bail something along the lines of "essentially no different than not granting bail" in his argument. And he was correct in that regard. Of course the 10K bail he suggested, given the circumstances and history of the case thus far, might be termed "the same as telling her to go ahead and run, it's no big deal."

Essentially the same as no bail... because normal everyday people wouldn't post $500k they'll never get back for a week of freedom. We all assume she'd be back in jail in no time and it would be fruitless. But these people have consistently made decisions to do things the rest of us exclaim "you'll never get away with that!" about. And so far, they've been emboldened by actually getting away with them.

Plus, if Chad thinks he HAS to stop her from telling police anything, and if he leaves her to rot she'll roll on him, that could be a strong motivator!

ETA: If they think something end-of-the-world important is going to happen shortly, and they're on some "spiritual mission," they wouldn't be operating on the same guidelines as the rest of us.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

You're right. To a point it can make great sense for many reasons. Even if you don't think we're nearing the end of the world there are all kinds of reasons why being prepared in this way can make sense and the Mormon teachings on this that I remember touched on all of those as the rationale. But as with many things, it can become an obsession that goes way beyond what is reasonable, logical, or defensible. (Maybe an off the grid hideaway with solar and such for someone who isn't wealthy and can't afford it.)

I just don't get how "prepping" in the way I understand it ( year's supply, rainwater harvesting, solar/offgrid, etc) or sheltering in place reconciles with Chad and Lori's "vision" of leading people to flee into the mountains..would the followers just leave everything they've stockpiled behind? Is there supposedly an existing place with all these supplies just waiting for Chad and Lori once they get back from their tropical vacation? I haven't read Chad's books though,so I guess I just don't get it, but none of it seems at all logical or practical in the sense that normal people stocking up for emergencies would be. Moo.

 

[HaikuMommy]

Duplicate

 

[LHS]

Here's why I don't think the kids are alive and that they were never planning to have the kids "return" (listed in the order they occur to me at the moment)

• Lori had her LDS membership records transferred to Hawaii but not the kids' records. Though JJ is too young to hve been a baptized official member, he and Tylee would both be listed on her records as her children. Tylee is old enough to have been baptized, though I have no knowledge of if she was. Normal age for that is 8 years old or older.
• Lori has Tylee's phone, Tylee's [debit/credit] cards with her, their birth certificates, JJ's ipad, but she left behind memories and things mother's typically cherish about their children in a storage unit she abandoned. That doesn't sound like a mom who is intent of having her kids with her, or even having kids who are still alive.
• Chad lied to his parents and Tammy's sister - both people he will likely see later in life if his plan had gone as he desired, and said that Lori had no non-adult children. This indicates that he didn't think that they would ever pop up at family gatherings if he ever intended to go to those, and wouldn't have to explain their existence to other family members.
• There is no record or information of any kind to show that either child is alive beyond September. Not medically, not physically, nothing. They vanish and are not seen again. Even if she had put them in boarding school, there would be a paper trail. If she sent them to some ranch, there would be a paper trail. There is always legal paper trail when you send your kids off to a business type place because of liability.
  
• I don't think they are living with other "cult members" or groupies of these two because if that was the case, Lori would likely have checked on them, or there would be SOME communication in some form via email, texts, calls, or SOMETHING indicating communication in particular with JJ being autistic. It's called a spectrum for a reason, there are some similar things among autistic people, but they are all individual and even someone who had experience with an autistic child would not know what JJ specifically was like, and so far some key players have been watched by police and there is no indication that they have these kids.
• A very socially active, involved with friends, type of girl like Tylee who loved social media in so many forms would not vanish like this without being a) forced to do so against her will or b) no longer living.
• Despite what JR the author has said, there is absolutely NO indication that the children were ever in Hawaii regardless of what island we're talking about. I imagine they have already checked to see if any plane tickets were for the kids, but I don't know that for sure. There was no indication of the kids being with them in HI whatsoever. I think we can safely rule that idea out.
• They told so many lies, and so many different lies to so many different people about the kids, it sounds to me like they wanted to keep everyone scattered and thinking different things. This sounds like a misdirect strategy to me. Being LDS, I can say that some of us are a little naive and all too trusting at times.
• Some have alleged that Lori believed or perceived some kind of custody threat and is protecting/hiding them. Who on earth would that have come from? If it was the Woodcocks that seems unlikely since they didn't even start that process until recently, and that's for their family tie to JJ - no could be perceived as seeking custody of Tylee who would be an adult this coming Sept. anyway. Her bio father is gone, and obviously her aunt did not know what was going on till later.

Please feel free to point out anything I may have gotten wrong in my expressed views... these are all my opinions based upon what I have followed on the case thus far.

 

[Rush4087]

I presume that when you say "that couple's" divorce filing, you mean BB and MB, and that therefore any reference to kids in those court documents would be "that couple's" kids - not Tylee and JJ. If not, please clarify and post link. Thx

 

[canyonoflight]

I just found this report that says police have talked with MB the niece, and the court documents filed in the divorce with that couple allege that MB knows where the kids are. It also alleges that MB said that "sometimes children are full of light and then they just go dark."

Hmm. Does Brandon just suspect she knows or did she say something to him that confirmed it? Also, that quote is terrifying. MOO

 

[BigAl16]

If that's the scenario, the most workable thing would be for her to get on a bus from West Yellowstone to Bozeman. Karst Stage has been running since the statecoach days, and there are several newer businesses that run shuttles to the airport or on-demand service to Big Sky or other areas.

I think the theory is they break up into two groups, Alex and the soon-to-be-deceased Tylee leave together and Lori and JJ head back home. I don't see a bus to Bozeman being the right approach for either. I think there are also busses (Salt Lake Express) that run from West Yellowstone and maybe points north to Rexburg and as far south as St George or maybe even Vegas.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Agree. I think Charles and Lori knew somewhat what they were getting into (even if he might not have had an autism diagnosis) and it should also be pointed out that Charles had greater financial resources to help JJ than the average adoptive parents through foster care have. Kay talks about believing that Charles (and Lori) could take better care of JJ and give him all he needed. And Charles did do everything he possible could-- JJ was in special private schools, they hired nannies for him, he had an i-pad with expensive special software on it, got a $7000 service dog, had medication he needed, etc. He had every advantage possible given to him by Charles. And JJ was reportedly very smart and thriving up until the point when Lori went crazy out in Jan/feb 2019 and removed all of JJ's means of support (hiding his medication, clothes, i-pad, Bailey's collar, and sabotaging Charles etc). This makes the case all the more tragic IMO. He had a rough start at life but a great opportunity to overcome the medical conditions life dealt him with his loving and well off family. Nothing bad ever had to happen to JJ. Lori could have walked away without harming JJ. She could have accepted the divorce and Charles would very likely still be alive and taking care of JJ. And Lori wouldn't be in jail right now on charges of abandoning her kids. It's all so senseless (what Lori has done) that it makes me angry.

MOO.

So sad for JJ, for CV, and now for KW and LW. This hits me so close to home. And all done out of hatred/control of a narcissistic sociopath who just wants to hurt and manipulate others. Moo.

 

[UnderstandBlue]

Thank you @Gardener1850 for the amazing timeline.

I wonder if LE is conducting searches in Yellowstone under the radar? Here's the only list I can find: Here's everywhere police searched while investigating JJ Vallow's and Tylee Ryan's disappearance

 

[MimosaMornings]

Avis/Budget - usually combined since both owned by Avis Budget Group.
Off airport locations are franchised owned.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I just had a totally out there Twilight Zone thought. Lori kept *with her* paperwork she could have used for replacement children. You have permission to write my thought off as insanity. Jmo

 

[carbuff]

I think the theory is they break up into two groups, Alex and the soon-to-be-deceased Tylee leave together and Lori and JJ head back home. I don't see a bus to Bozeman being the right approach for either. I think there are also busses (Salt Lake Express) that run from West Yellowstone and maybe points north to Rexburg and as far south as St George or maybe even Vegas.

Didn't the paperwork say that they saw Alex leaving the park with Lori and JJ? Tylee would have to have left alone. If she knew they were going to be in West Yellowstone, she could have prepared to run. Once she got to any of those larger towns, she could get to anywhere.

I hope she did, but I really don't see a lot of room for any theory other than that she's still in the park somewhere. I'd like to, but I just can't.

 

[LHS]

Thank you @Gardener1850 for the amazing timeline.

I wonder if LE is conducting searches in Yellowstone under the radar? Here's the only list I can find: Here's everywhere police searched while investigating JJ Vallow's and Tylee Ryan's disappearance

This at least tells us where the photo of Tylee at Yellowstone came from..

A photo from Lori's iCloud account shows Tylee was at the park. Police say that is the last time they found any record of Tylee being with Lori Vallow, and they have no witnesses to verify Tylee has been seen since then.

 

[Redvines86]

Here's why I don't think the kids are alive and that they were never planning to have the kids "return" (listed in the order they occur to me at the moment)

• Lori had her LDS membership records transferred to Hawaii but not the kids' records. Though JJ is too young to hve been a baptized official member, he and Tylee would both be listed on her records as her children. Tylee is old enough to have been baptized, though I have no knowledge of if she was. Normal age for that is 8 years old or older.
• Lori has Tylee's phone, Tylee's [debit/credit] cards with her, their birth certificates, JJ's ipad, but she left behind memories and things mother's typically cherish about their children in a storage unit she abandoned. That doesn't sound like a mom who is intent of having her kids with her, or even having kids who are still alive.
• Chad lied to his parents and Tammy's sister - both people he will likely see later in life if his plan had gone as he desired, and said that Lori had no non-adult children. This indicates that he didn't think that they would ever pop up at family gatherings if he ever intended to go to those, and wouldn't have to explain their existence to other family members.
• There is no record or information of any kind to show that either child is alive beyond September. Not medically, not physically, nothing. They vanish and are not seen again. Even if she had put them in boarding school, there would be a paper trail. If she sent them to some ranch, there would be a paper trail. There is always legal paper trail when you send your kids off to a business type place because of liability.
  
• I don't think they are living with other "cult members" or groupies of these two because if that was the case, Lori would likely have checked on them, or there would be SOME communication in some form via email, texts, calls, or SOMETHING indicating communication in particular with JJ being autistic. It's called a spectrum for a reason, there are some similar things among autistic people, but they are all individual and even someone who had experience with an autistic child would not know what JJ specifically was like, and so far some key players have been watched by police and there is no indication that they have these kids.
• A very socially active, involved with friends, type of girl like Tylee who loved social media in so many forms would not vanish like this without being a) forced to do so against her will or b) no longer living.
• Despite what JR the author has said, there is absolutely NO indication that the children were ever in Hawaii regardless of what island we're talking about. I imagine they have already checked to see if any plane tickets were for the kids, but I don't know that for sure. There was no indication of the kids being with them in HI whatsoever. I think we can safely rule that idea out.
• They told so many lies, and so many different lies to so many different people about the kids, it sounds to me like they wanted to keep everyone scattered and thinking different things. This sounds like a misdirect strategy to me. Being LDS, I can say that some of us are a little naive and all too trusting at times.
• Some have alleged that Lori believed or perceived some kind of custody threat and is protecting/hiding them. Who on earth would that have come from? If it was the Woodcocks that seems unlikely since they didn't even start that process until recently, and that's for their family tie to JJ - no could be perceived as seeking custody of Tylee who would be an adult this coming Sept. anyway. Her bio father is gone, and obviously her aunt did not know what was going on till later.

Please feel free to point out anything I may have gotten wrong in my expressed views... these are all my opinions based upon what I have followed on the case thus far.

Excellent job!

 

[divineappt]

BigAl16 said But the year's supply (or whatever it has changed to since I was plugged in to this) was an official teaching, wasn't it? I see the prepper stuff as being an instance of taking an official teaching/suggestion and getting carried away with it, diving down the slippery slope well beyond what is being suggested. Definitely not official, maybe even discouraged, but also something a random non-Mormon would be less likely to stumble into than a devout Mormon. Is that fair?



The prepping is not bad advice and I'm not Mormon. I dunno why people act like prepping is strange or weird. It comes in handy when the lights go out, even for a week or two. Jmo.

Absolutely, I am not LDS but live in a hurricane prone area 15 miles (used to be 25) away from shopping. Not really bad, usually in town every day, but a pain if you suddenly ran out of something. I always try to keep at least 1 - 3 months staples and canned goods stocked up. Honestly they are used more often for day when the power goes out from a sto

Absolutely. One of my friends calls online genealogy "video poker for Mormons." It will never fail to crack me up, but it also will never fail to be true how easy it is to let anything get to extremes. (Websleuths *cough cough*).

I keep punching that like button, but it will not do more than 1. Think I should quickly go grab my bowl of cereal for dinner and get back. Ummmh, to reading!

 

[Redvines86]

I think the theory is they break up into two groups, Alex and the soon-to-be-deceased Tylee leave together and Lori and JJ head back home. I don't see a bus to Bozeman being the right approach for either. I think there are also busses (Salt Lake Express) that run from West Yellowstone and maybe points north to Rexburg and as far south as St George or maybe even Vegas.

Yeah, I think most likely Alex and Tylee just went for a walk.

 

[PJFL]

I presume that when you say "that couple's" divorce filing, you mean BB and MB, and that therefore any reference to kids in those court documents would be "that couple's" kids - not Tylee and JJ. If not, please clarify and post link. Thx

It's stated at around 3:05 in the video the OP provided.

 

[FindingJoLee]

This at least tells us where the photo of Tylee at Yellowstone came from..

A photo from Lori's iCloud account shows Tylee was at the park. Police say that is the last time they found any record of Tylee being with Lori Vallow, and they have no witnesses to verify Tylee has been seen since then.

So....I'm just getting the impact of this. Even Lori's iCloud has no photos of Tylee after that. She didn't take one, nobody sent her one that she saved. NOT ONE PHOTO of her teen daughter in her iPhone in five months.