Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

[tresir2012]

My understanding, though others might know better than I do, is that this is not an option in the mainstream church (again Chad and Lori may be off doing their own thing; we're not quite sure).

Lori (if already sealed to CV, for example, which I don't think has been fully verified), could only become sealed to Chad if she somehow had the CV sealing annulled at some earlier point. I hear that this annulment is quite difficult to obtain, and so, given the situation surrounding Lori, I would think it's quite unlikely to have happened. Likewise, Chad could not be sealed to Lori without such an annulment (again assuming that she had indeed been previously sealed).

I think the point that the post you're responding to is getting at is that a woman can only be sealed to one man, while a man can be sealed to more than one woman (since the early 20th century, this means only one living woman at a time).

So technically (much more likely in a situation where there weren't legal suspicions hanging over the parties involved), Chad could be sealed to both Tammy (from when she was alive) and then to Lori (only after Tammy's death). Mormon sealings are believed to be valid both in life and the after-death realm, so in that case Chad would be sealed to two women. However, both Tammy and Lori in that situation would be sealed only to Chad. This would also require that Lori is not sealed to any other man or has somehow had that sealing annulled (again, not easy to do, from what I hear).

I don't think that it would be possible in the mainstream church to have Chad sealed to Lori without Lori sealed to Chad.

TY for the explanation. Clear as mud isn't it?

If Lori was sealed to CV and he is now dead, does she still need an annulment? So presumably she cannot be sealed to Chad without such an annulment. However, Lori claims she is sealed to the prophet Moroni, so she would not be able to be sealed to anyone else. Does she therefore believe Chad is (a reincarnation of) the prophet Moroni?

 

[RexburgSleuth]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

From the Affidavit of Probable Cause (Page 7, #26):

"We have obtained a photograph of T.R. at the park entrance through the National Park Service."

Getting a photograph at the park entrance could be from the YNP webcams.
YNP Webcams
Maps | National Park Service

From Rexburg, the likeliest option is through West Yellowstone (83 miles from Rexburg) at the West Entrance. South Entrance is possible through Grand Teton NP, but not as likely. It's through Jackson, WY, (about 3 hours one way) and there's no webcam there. Mammoth Hot Springs on the North Entrance is also a possibility but farther drive (4 and half hours).

You've got to be determined to go to Yellowstone with a child with autism and drive 3+ hours just to get there, knowing it's the same distance driving back. Even the hour and 15 minutes to West Yellowstone (Edit: changed would to could) could be trying. Serious premeditation to come back without Tylee. If she was left there, it was no accident.

 

[SeattleStew]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence though. So lack of evidence of support is not proof of lack of support necessarily. Eg. Nanny asked to be paid by Venmo but Lori wanted to pay nanny by cash. Lack of evidence if one pays cash.

BBM. Well I guess it would have raised questions from the Nanny about why Lori was using Tylee's bank card to pay her. MOO.

 

[Colorado303]

Doesn't surprise me, that it is documented. We know that both the 3rd and 4th husband were concerned for the welfare of their children, and both were fighting for custodial rights. We don't know what was happening behind closed doors though.

My ex only went to Couple therapy, once. When she was forced to by the courts. It was a nightmare for me though.

At the time I didn't know what BPD, Narcissism, etc. I was oblivious of what Iwas dealing with, I just knew we were having problems.

Looking back, I realize that the Therapist that saw us was an absolute moron, and helped her to reinforce and double down on her bad behavior.

We had several sessions, always together (never one on one). I would explain a problem we were having, and how I took responsibility for my part in it. Invariably, my ex found a way to not only throw me under the bus (figuratively Speaking), but was so good at manipulating that psychiatrist, that he blamed everything on me too. It was always one sided, she was never told once to take responsibility. Then to add insult to injury, she made sure to ream me the second we got out of there.

People with BPD only go to counseling if it is court ordered, they will never go voluntarily.

Of course, this is pure speculation. There is a lot of crossover with BPD, it can be very difficult for even the professionals to properly diagnose it when they have an actual patient.

We are just being armchair psychologist right now. When I notice familiar patterns though, I recognize them fast.

MOO

Narcissists and sociopaths almost never get therapy on their own because they don’t think there’s anything wrong with them. Narcissists get furious at the mere suggestion and Sociopaths just don’t care. And when they do go it rarely helps since they’re always right and don’t do guilt. They may even seem engaged and contrite if it gets them something they want, but it’s almost always an act.

It’s surprising to me how many times I’ve heard from people in couples/family counseling their very qualified therapist bought what the narc/sociopath was selling hook, line and sinker. If they can con professionals, no wonder so many normal partners are initially fooled too.

Not saying therapists can’t identify narcs/sociopaths. Some probably are very good at it off the bat. And most likely would catch on with time. Who knows, since these creeps typically quit going the instant they suspect the therapist isn’t buying it.

—My non-professional opinion only

 

[LDS social scientist]

TY for the explanation. Clear as mud isn't it?

If Lori was sealed to CV and he is now dead, does she still need an annulment? So presumably she cannot be sealed to Chad without such an annulment. However, Lori claims she is sealed to the prophet Moroni, so she would not be able to be sealed to anyone else. Does she therefore believe Chad is (a reincarnation of) the prophet Moroni?

For the mainstream church, yes Lori would need an annulment in that situation.

Lori, from the rumors out there, believes in previous lives, which the mainstream church does not believe in. So I can't really speak to what she thinks would be necessary there. It's do-it-yourself doctrine that she'd be following in any connection to the prophet Moroni.

 

[b2alicia]

Hi, Sleuthers, I would first like to preface my post by saying that I am by NO means an expert, or professional psychologist. I did have a Masters in Occupational Therapy and worked in that field for 35 years. (retired now). I would say that 25-30% of my practice included involvement in psych issues.

So as I've been reading about Lori's life, and the events and activities that have happened, I kept getting a suspicion of, "that sure sounds like a psychosis behavior", or "is she a sociopath?", or bipolar ?... And it's made me wonder if anyone knew if she had any history of being on any psych meds? I guess it would be very unlikely that anyone here would know.

The other thing this makes me wonder about is, if down the line, we learn the worst , then could she use this for an "altered mental status' plea?

And I have no concrete basis for any of this, and this is all just my own opinion, but I wondered if anyone else had picked up on anything like this?

 

[raysgirl1126]

Is it possible that Lori, Alex and JJ stopped somewhere on their way home from Yellowstone where there were cameras and Tylee was not seen with them?

Of course it is. Especially in this case. Honestly wouldn't surprise me if big foot was involved at this point. MOO

But in all honesty, I believe LE knows a TON more than what they are sharing with the public! IMO

 

[Tortoise]

rsbm
And one way more sinister twist from watching too many movies...LV tells the babysitter to give JJ some medicine. What if LV then gives JJ more medicine, or a drug that interacts with whatever she gave the babysitter to give to JJ. Now she can deny she knew about whatever the babysitter gave him so that fatal drug interaction...oopsy.

It doesn't work with the timeline. JJ was in school on Sep 23rd.

 

[Sltpeppa]

I guess some were too busy conspiring to kill people in October (2nd BB, 9th Tammy, 19th Tammy).

My exact same thoughts!

 

[Christ is Truth]

DBM

 

[Colorado303]

Well I guess that depends on who you talk to. I've talked to two professional psychologist that both told me this. I have also heard this mentioned in Youtube videos. However, I will say that the keyword is that they "believe" this is what is going on, but aren't sure.

I'm not a certified Psychologist, so what do I know. MOO

@DoctorAttorney and @Anonymous91 I think you both may right. Is it possible one of you is using BPD to stand for borderline personality disorder (no true emotions, etc) and the other Bipolar personality disorder (overly emotional). I’m not sure which one it’s officially the abbreviation for myself.

 

[Christ is Truth]

Is it possible that Lori, Alex and JJ stopped somewhere on their way home from Yellowstone where there were cameras and Tylee was not seen with them?

I asked the same question. I think it is possible that they could have made the drive there and back without stopping.

 

[Sillybilly]

Websleuths 101 folks !!

Please read The Rules and stop sleuthing Lori's niece's husband's social media.

 

[Colorado303]

At this point getting verified would be a public service. Seriously, this Death Zone hoax (and telling people that they can get away with murder as long as they do it in a certain place in the US, is indeed a hoax), is socially irresponsible.

Please do. It’s pretty easy and I very much appreciate the input of WS’s verified professionals.

 

[BigAl16]

Oh, wouldn't it be great to have that little tidbit of info of where they entered park, based on photo at entrance? Although that would just lead me down another rabbit hole, all while I continue to ignore my household chores that I should be tending to right now.

My assumption has been they entered the park at the West entrance (actually more NW, but the official name is West entrance) in West Yellowstone which is about 80 miles from Rexburg, but I don't think we can rule out the south entrance (about 140 miles). If they were specifically headed for somewhere in the south part of the park or were planning on doing a loop through the park and wanted to come out an entrance they didn't use to go in then that one could make sense. Have they released the picture of them entering the park?

 

[squareandrabbet]

From the Affidavit of Probable Cause (Page 7, #26):

"We have obtained a photograph of T.R. at the park entrance through the National Park Service."

Getting a photograph at the park entrance could be from the YNP webcams.
YNP Webcams
Maps | National Park Service

From Rexburg, the likeliest option is through West Yellowstone (83 miles from Rexburg) at the West Entrance. South Entrance is possible through Grand Teton NP, but not as likely. It's through Jackson, WY, (about 3 hours one way) and there's no webcam there. Mammoth Hot Springs on the North Entrance is also a possibility but farther drive (4 and half hours).

You've got to be determined to go to Yellowstone with a child with autism and drive 3+ hours just to get there, knowing it's the same distance driving back. Even the hour and 15 minutes to West Yellowstone (Edit: changed would to could) could be trying. Serious premeditation to come back without Tylee. If she was left there, it was no accident.

I'm sure that's what they mean; and to this extent, I'm quite sure that the National Park Service knows which entrance the Cox/Vallow party took to get into Yellowstone.

WE may not know; I firmly believe that they know.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

If LE have cellular data from POI phones, there's still a good chance to track movements in YNP.

Cellular Maps.com-Yellowstone Park Cellular Coverage
This image shows results as of 2007 and the study notes improvements in 2018.

I can verify losing signal in the upper left corner between West Yellowstone and Big Sky, MT. That's a bad place for a car breakdown.

 

[Anonymous91]

I don't think the rules of the LDS church matter (other than whatever rules they would need to follow in order to enter the temple). This cult has made up their own rules. I think we need discuss more what the former member shared about what was going on with marriages within the cult and focus less on what the LDS church doctrine says on marriage. These people are not following LDS teachings:

“Chad doesn’t have a big group of followers in eastern Idaho,” Amber said. “He just goes around to little groups and gives testimony, tells his story, and people believe in the visions he’s having.”

One aspect that seemed to fascinate her ex-husband was the idea of multiple mortal probations, Amber said. According to orthodox Latter-day Saint teachings, this life is a test or probation to see if people will live by God’s commandments. But both Chad and Rowe have taught that people can essentially be reincarnated and live multiple times — and have multiple probations — on earth. (Reincarnation is not accepted Latter-day Saint doctrine.)

In some of these groups, tied into this belief is the idea that a man and a woman might be destined to be together, even if that person is married to someone else. Like multiple probations, this is not a Latter-day Saint belief.

Contrary to LDS norms, Amber said her husband began to take another married woman to a Latter-day Saint temple to receive revelation from God. Temples are places of worship for Latter-day Saints where members perform marriage ceremonies and do spiritual work.

“These people go to the temple and make promises to be together,” Amber said. “They pray about it and feel like they are getting answers.”

In interviews with other former members of these groups, some said things went beyond just temple trips. One east Idaho man, who asked not to be identified, told EastIdahoNews.com that during his time in a group, he was approached by someone who claimed to have received personal revelation that he was supposed to marry the man’s wife.

A look at the religious circle surrounding Chad and Lori Daybell | East Idaho News

----

BBM.

What I'm getting from that is that they have somehow decided they can be spiritually reincarnated (not LDS doctrine) and somehow this belief allows them multiple "spiritual" spouses too (not LDS doctrine). But this whole going to the temple with married people of the opposite sex and praying to be with them thing is so bizarre. It sounds more like a swingers group to me than a religious group! It's as if they think they found some legal loophole in their faith that allows them to legitimately cheat on their spouse-- as long at they go to the temple to pray about it first! Of course some things went beyond temple trips when their mindset from the start is they think they should be together and they are looking for some sign from God to put a stamp of approval on it!

How many of these couples left the temple and went straight to a hotel together? I bet almost all of them did if they didn't have sex right there in the temple! I'm being a bit dramatic but, a serious question for the LDS experts here, Is that possible? Are there private rooms in the temple where affairs could happen? In an earlier thread someone said there are no cameras inside the temple. That sounds like an ideal place to carry on an affair to me. No credit card receipts and no evidence of the affair if they meet in the temple. They can say all they are doing is praying together.

Sorry if I offend anyone with the suggestion that cult members might be having sex in the temple, but the more I think about this the more I'm hopping mad about this cult justifying cheating on their spouses. Even if the temple affairs are only emotional/spiritual affairs this is dangerous teaching from this cult. Multiple spouses are dead under suspicious circumstances. And those are just the ones we know about connected to the missing children JJ and Tylee. If a man can justify cheating using the temple then he can also find a way to justify murdering the spouse he is cheating on so that he can be free to be with the one that he has "received personal revelation that he was supposed to marry." (And the same goes for the women in the cult, I'm just using the male pronoun as an example to flow with the quote). This is so dangerous.

What are the ramifications of these dangerous beliefs for the children in this cult? Where are Tylee and JJ?

MOO.

This reminds me of what was happening on BYU campus years ago. This may be relevant since CV had attended there. I am sure he would be aware of this too.

So what a lot of the students were doing is traveling to Las Vegas on the weekends, getting married and having a lot of sex. Then they would annul the "wedding". In their eyes they weren't breaking the commandments.

Well the Church got wind of this and put their foot down. Although this is following the letter of the law, it definitely isn't following the spirit of the law.

I wonder if this is where some of this weird beliefs stemmed from. MOO

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Do you think that is Lewis Falls in the background?

Y'all know me with recognizing vehicles in photos. I'd say it is definitively Lewis Falls in the photo I found somewhere of someone, but unrelated to the case and therefore we can't sleuth the person.

 

[CSIDreamer]

@DoctorAttorney and @Anonymous91 I think you both may right. Is it possible one of you is using BPD to stand for borderline personality disorder (no true emotions, etc) and the other Bipolar personality disorder (overly emotional). I’m not sure which one it’s officially the abbreviation for myself.

I agree. I know one person has been offended and I don't blame that poster one bit. Can we maybe use "bi polar" to distinguish from BPD?