TX TX - Yogurt Shop Murders, Austin, 6 Dec 1991

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Another report (USA Today) that seems to have more details on the FBI story

Austin yogurt shop murder cold case hinges on DNA that FBI won't share

Scientists say Y-strands can create large pools of family members that may be in the hundreds or thousands. In a statement, the FBI said that such male-specific profiles “are not a means of personal identification.” “This isn’t like we open the envelope and we know who the killer is,” Murphy said. “We open the envelope, and we find out the killer’s last name is Jones.”
 
Via Marple said:
Another report (USA Today) that seems to have more details on the FBI story

Austin yogurt shop murder cold case hinges on DNA that FBI won't share

Scientists say Y-strands can create large pools of family members that may be in the hundreds or thousands. In a statement, the FBI said that such male-specific profiles “are not a means of personal identification.” “This isn’t like we open the envelope and we know who the killer is,” Murphy said. “We open the envelope, and we find out the killer’s last name is Jones.”
Click to expand...

But if there was a "Jones" the APD got a tip on thirty years ago, it is a lead. And APD has very few of those.
 
Numerous people reported the weird guys at the booth and have strong beliefs that they did it. What did they all say those guys were doing, drinking sodas out of a can. Drinking out of a can. A can that got thrown in the trash, at the top of the trash bag. A can that would have DNA on it.
 
I’ve been a genealogist for 30 years. I deal with genetic genealogy to trace relatives AND help adoptees trace their real parents. IT IS **NOT** DIFFICULT TO TRACE ONE PERSON OUT OF DOZENS OR EVEN A FEW HUNDRED DNA MATCHES. I don’t charge a dime for it, either, and I’m sure law enforcement has paid experts on hand with better resources than I have to cut the time !

All investigators will have to do is eliminate, eliminate, eliminate those descendents. First, cross off the females. Cross off anyone born shortly before and after 1991. Then compile lists of addresses and whereabouts. Nobody who wasn’t in or near Austin on that date. And so forth.

Any halfway competent genealogist can do that in an afternoon - or a few days if it IS hundreds or thousands. Hell, feed it onto a computer database and it will spit out candidates. Give it to me - I’ll do it for free. Disabled now with nothing but time.

Most innocent people ARE willing to help in a murder investigation, ESPECIALLY if the victims are children. Those samples will help point them closer to, or away, from a suspect. If not, follow them till they toss that cigarette butt or coffee cup.

It can be done. That APD and FBI won’t even try tells a lot of ugly truths! They are incompetent, lazy, unprofessional, dishonest and completely unethical.
 
sds71 said:
For decades, the Golden State Killer case had loomed large among cold-case enthusiasts. The nickname was coined by Michelle McNamara.
Sure enough, just months after the book’s release, the police announced Mr. DeAngelo’s arrest, crediting the break in the case to the accessing of the database at GEDmatch, a service that collects data from private DNA testing companies like 23andMe.
The floodgates opened. Ms. Hart on Long Island wasn’t the only person wondering if something similar could happen for New York’s most famous unsolved multiple-murder investigation...

Right away, she called an old colleague at the F.B.I.’s Long Island office who was up to speed on this very technology.

The Gilgo Beach Murders Were a Cold Case. Then a New Police Chief Arrived.
Click to expand...
So- the new break in the LISK case was greatly assisted by some new DNA genealogy work by FBI, even though the local LE were restricted by state laws not to use it.

I can see a bit of irony here. Let's hope that they will finally decide to cooperate in another famous cold case in Austin TX.
 
Longtime lurker here, signed up to comment on this case.

I grew up in San Antonio but moved to Austin to attend college in 2000 and lived there for the better part of 12 years. Obviously, this case has weighed on the city ever since it happened. One thing to remember is that, in those days, Austin was still very much a college and bar kind of town and hadn't seen anything of this level since perhaps the UT Tower Shootings. The APD were clearly out of their depth. There is audio, might be some video too not sure, of a CBS crew that just happened to be following the APD homicide unit that night as part of a larger story on homicide in Texas cities. You can hear the apprehension in the homicide detective's voice when the call comes in of a possible multiple homicide.

One thing that I've always felt is that the murders appear to show a certain level of understanding of not only the shops operation but the strip mall as a whole. To sit there and hold four young women against their will, assault them sexually, murder them, and set the shop on fire is not something a person would confidently attempt without knowing exactly what times all the other businesses closed and people left. This makes me think that the killer(s) were possibly known to at least one of the girls, if not all of them, and was familiar with the other businesses in the strip mall.

There was a time when I thought maybe the owner of the shop was involved in some sort illegal activity, perhaps money laundering for organised crime, and the murders were to send a message.

I think now, with the dna evidence recovered in subsequent years, it feels more personal than it did initially. Someone earlier on in the thread raised the possibility of Amy being sexually active. Could it be possible that she became involved in a sexual relationship with an older man that turned sour? Maybe as a result of grooming by someone known to girls. She ended it or maybe was found out by one of the other girls and they threatened to expose the predator and he decided to kill them to cover his tracks?

Just something that occurred to me, probably way off base but you never know. Either way, I hope this is resolved sooner than later. The families deserve closure.
 
I would love to see this case solved and closed. It was horrible. I lived in Austin at the time and had just graduated HS the year prior. My friends and i went to that yogurt shop a lot. Yes, Austin was very different then and it rocked the city.



Teletex82 said:
Longtime lurker here, signed up to comment on this case.

I grew up in San Antonio but moved to Austin to attend college in 2000 and lived there for the better part of 12 years. Obviously, this case has weighed on the city ever since it happened. One thing to remember is that, in those days, Austin was still very much a college and bar kind of town and hadn't seen anything of this level since perhaps the UT Tower Shootings. The APD were clearly out of their depth. There is audio, might be some video too not sure, of a CBS crew that just happened to be following the APD homicide unit that night as part of a larger story on homicide in Texas cities. You can hear the apprehension in the homicide detective's voice when the call comes in of a possible multiple homicide.

One thing that I've always felt is that the murders appear to show a certain level of understanding of not only the shops operation but the strip mall as a whole. To sit there and hold four young women against their will, assault them sexually, murder them, and set the shop on fire is not something a person would confidently attempt without knowing exactly what times all the other businesses closed and people left. This makes me think that the killer(s) were possibly known to at least one of the girls, if not all of them, and was familiar with the other businesses in the strip mall.

There was a time when I thought maybe the owner of the shop was involved in some sort illegal activity, perhaps money laundering for organised crime, and the murders were to send a message.

I think now, with the dna evidence recovered in subsequent years, it feels more personal than it did initially. Someone earlier on in the thread raised the possibility of Amy being sexually active. Could it be possible that she became involved in a sexual relationship with an older man that turned sour? Maybe as a result of grooming by someone known to girls. She ended it or maybe was found out by one of the other girls and they threatened to expose the predator and he decided to kill them to cover his tracks?

Just something that occurred to me, probably way off base but you never know. Either way, I hope this is resolved sooner than later. The families deserve closure.
Click to expand...
 
Just started reading up on this heinous crime recently. I had heard about it over the years, but didn't know the details until now.

It's horrible that these four innocent young women were victimized & killed like this. This would have been an unusually horrific crime no matter where it had occurred, but this is especially true due to it happening in Austin, TX - which was not (and still isn't) known for extremely violent crimes like this.

And, what's also awful is that several innocent men were arrested & convicted of these crimes with 0 evidence. I discount the alleged "confessions" since we all know those can (and are) coerced all the time. It sounds like the authorities were under extreme pressure to close/solve the case, which is what led to these convictions. Terrible.

I wonder what the motive was here - was this a random & sick crime of opportunity, or did the perpetrators have some kind of specific anger/hatred towards one or more of these young women?! Had any/all of them been stalked prior to this?! I.e., were one or more of these women specifically targeted ahead of time - and were the others just in the wrong place @ the wrong time?!

I'll definitely need to do more research on this case.
 
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I'm hoping a new set of eyes and maybe a renewed focus on this case can get it at least to another level in the investigation. It seems like this case has been stuck in neutral for some time now and I hope they can at least someday find a match for this DNA. I agree with the family that someone needs to be paying for this crime.
 
It has been 30 years since firefighters doused the flames tearing through a North Austin yogurt shop and discovered the bodies of four teenage girls who had been bound, gagged and shot in the head.

The horrific crime shocked the city, unsettled investigators and devastated the teens' families.

More than 1,000 people attended a church service for the girls, and a candlelight vigil drew even more mourners six months later as days turned into weeks, then months without an arrest.

More at link...

1991 Austin yogurt shop murders case unresolved as anniversary looms
 
Via Marple said:
Another report (USA Today) that seems to have more details on the FBI story

Austin yogurt shop murder cold case hinges on DNA that FBI won't share
Click to expand...

'Just using a snippet of the link you provided

"Some law enforcement officials argue that using partial DNA could help them identify suspects in hard-to-solve cases. But skeptics argue that the practice unfairly casts aspersions on large groups of family members who are likely uninvolved in crime."

JMO... I'd be willing to risk some possible unfair aspersions if a killer was likely to be identified. (I'd like to see the legal argument against this).
 
Numerous articles trending today. In my opinion, it's inexcusable not to try everything possible to solve this using the DNA. It's been done in other cases. Figure out the legal issues and do it.

- It could help remove one or more very dangerous offenders from the streets, for the safety of society
- Because these victims still deserve justice
- To help clear their names if those men were falsely accused
- To solve a cold case and give the victims' families that tiny bit of deserved peace.

KXAN.com: 30 years later, infamous Austin yogurt shop murders remain unsolved.
30 years later, infamous Austin yogurt shop murders remain unsolved | KXAN Austin
 
fred&edna said:
'Just using a snippet of the link you provided

"Some law enforcement officials argue that using partial DNA could help them identify suspects in hard-to-solve cases. But skeptics argue that the practice unfairly casts aspersions on large groups of family members who are likely uninvolved in crime."

JMO... I'd be willing to risk some possible unfair aspersions if a killer was likely to be identified. (I'd like to see the legal argument against this).
Click to expand...

Just reading between the lines in this article, my impression is the FBI database where they found a DNA match was acquired without the knowledge or consent of the DNA donors. If they attempt to investigate the DNA familial connections, the match they find will be able to argue that the DNA was obtained without consent and evidence won't be admissible. JMO, just a theory.

That doesn't prevent the Austin PD submitting the DNA sample to the online family tree databases.
 
Betty P said:
Just reading between the lines in this article, my impression is the FBI database where they found a DNA match was acquired without the knowledge or consent of the DNA donors. If they attempt to investigate the DNA familial connections, the match they find will be able to argue that the DNA was obtained without consent and evidence won't be admissible. JMO, just a theory.

That doesn't prevent the Austin PD submitting the DNA sample to the online family tree databases.
Click to expand...

I think at this point they owe it to the victims and their families to identify these people by any means necessary. IMO this has gone on too long and it is time to put faces with the DNA. They also owe it to the guys who were originally arrested.
 
Betty P said:
If they attempt to investigate the DNA familial connections, the match they find will be able to argue that the DNA was obtained without consent and evidence won't be admissible. JMO, just a theory.

That doesn't prevent the Austin PD submitting the DNA sample to the online family tree databases.
Click to expand...

RSBM

You're right... that is the likely legal argument. Good thinking!

And, actually the Austin PD should want to submit the DNA sample - in an effort to put right the mistakes from the past.
 
fred&edna said:
RSBM

You're right... that is the likely legal argument. Good thinking!

And, actually the Austin PD should want to submit the DNA sample - in an effort to put right the mistakes from the past.
Click to expand...

It's possible there's some reason they can't use online databases, IDK. For some reason, the Austin PD folks make it sound as though, without using the FBI database, there's nothing they can do. Not sure why.
 
Feb 4 2022 lengthy.
The Yogurt Shop Murders: Could a DNA sample taken 30 years ago solve the infamous case? - CBS News
''But now, thanks to new advances in DNA technology, there is renewed hope that a piece of evidence collected from the scene on the night of the crime will be key to solving the case once and for all. "48 Hours" correspondent Erin Moriarty reports on the latest developments in "The Yogurt Shop Murders," airing Saturday, February 5 at 10/9c on CBS and streaming on Paramount+.''
yogurtshop-720.jpg

Inside the yogurt shop were the charred bodies of four teenage girls ranging from 13 to 17 years old. The victims, clockwise from top left: Amy Ayers, Eliza Thomas, Sarah Harbison and Jennifer Harbison.AP IMAGES
''On December 6, 1991, 17-year-old Eliza Thomas, 13-year-old Amy Ayers, and two sisters, 17-year-old Jennifer Harbison and 15-year-old Sarah Harbison, were found gagged, tied up with their own clothing, and shot in the head in an I Can't Believe It's Yogurt! shop in Austin. Whoever was responsible had also set the shop on fire, compromising much of the evidence. ''

''CeCe Moore, a DNA expert and genetic genealogist whom we interviewed for this week's "48 Hours," told correspondent Erin Moriarty that Y-STR DNA is a tool sometimes used in criminal cases. Moore explained it "can eliminate almost everyone. … Everyone but the suspect."

"If their Y-STR does not match, they did not contribute that DNA?" Moriarty asked Moore.

"Because of… where that DNA was found, yes, in this case, it's very important," Moore said.

Still, prosecutors were determined to retry Springsteen and Scott. But before doing so, they wanted to figure out who that mystery DNA belonged to. ''
 
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