TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

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MadMcGoo said:
Although not probable, for all we really know, the girl we call WCJD may not even be the girl witnesses described seeing at the Hitch'n Post and the gas station. So maybe a disheveled, bratty, 19-year-old girl did speak with a waitress, get directions to the Ellis Unit, order and drink a milkshake, and then leave, never to be seen again. Maybe the girl seen that day looked like the photos of WCJD shown to the witnesses and they really believed it to be the same girl. Remember though, she had been severely beaten about the face and wouldn't have looked the same. Maybe no one at the prison recognized the girl in the photos because none of them had actually seen or met her before. They were after all shown postmortem photos.
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Two witnesses positively ID'ed her postmortem, so very, very unlikely.

Walker County Jane Doe - Wikipedia
Both of these eyewitnesses would positively identify the girl's body in the morgue; each conclusively stating she had been the individual who had asked them for specific directions the afternoon prior to the discovery of her body.[4][24]
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MadMcGoo said:
If/when someone enters Huntsville they are going to know almost immediately that the town is full of prisons. Unless she was literally blindfolded and parachuted from a plane that landed her smack dab in the middle of Hitch'n Post parking lot, she likely would have known this.

So if she were going to make up a story about who she was or what she was doing, I don’t think “I’m headed to the prison to see a friend” is too far fetched in this scenario. Now, “I need directions to the Ellis Unit” is an entirely different story. That’s very specific in this case. She could have seen signs around that area indicating Ellis was close by, I’m not sure what “markers” were present back in 1980. Same with the Rockport/Port Aransas...she could have simply seen signs (if they were there).

What I’ve always wondered is this; if she were going to a specific prison to see a specific person, even being a convicted felon, why hasn’t even the tiniest rumor surfaced from or about this person. Inmates are going to talk, even officers too. So I can’t think of any scenario where this mystery “boyfriend” would still be a mystery after 40 years. Could he have been responsible for her death? Could it have been a corrections officer? Could he have been a too-frightened-to-talk death row inmate? Could he be dead by now? The answer to all these, IMO, is ‘yes’! But that still doesn’t explain how not so much as a peep about his identity has ever been uttered over the years.

That makes me think that either the “visiting a friend, need directions” story was fabricated by WCJD herself, or it was made up/exaggerated by the witnesses. Yes, more than one of them said the same thing and one even said they drew a map for her, but again, 40 years and not a peep from these witnesses (including 2nd hand ones; products of the rumor mill). As I understand it, most of the witnesses are no longer living. Also, no concrete proof that such encounters took place. Someone mentioned ice cream (milkshake) showing up during her autopsy. That’s a perfect example and something that would give credibility to the account. Similar to the fruit that the Sumter Mystery Couple did ingest; proven by the autopsy results.

Although not probable, for all we really know, the girl we call WCJD may not even be the girl witnesses described seeing at the Hitch'n Post and the gas station. So maybe a disheveled, bratty, 19-year-old girl did speak with a waitress, get directions to the Ellis Unit, order and drink a milkshake, and then leave, never to be seen again. Maybe the girl seen that day looked like the photos of WCJD shown to the witnesses and they really believed it to be the same girl. Remember though, she had been severely beaten about the face and wouldn't have looked the same. Maybe no one at the prison recognized the girl in the photos because none of them had actually seen or met her before. They were after all shown postmortem photos.

Too many frustrating "why?"s and "what if?"s. It's been far too long to be asking the same questions. Someone knows this poor girl. :(

JMOO
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Witness testimony is often wrong. Comparing a brief interaction with a young woman to a post mortem photo of a woman that has been beaten and assuming they are the same would be an easy mistake to make. People want to help. Recalling a girl that they met that seemed young or like she shouldn't be going to a prison alone is helpful it just might not be the same girl. It's also possible that bruising or swelling of the face makes her look younger than she is to us.
I don't think a relative in prison would lie about knowing her. I think it's possible if she was seeing someone in prison they didn't know what she looked liked.
 
I don’t think the witnesses necessarily lied purposefully. I’m sure they did genuinely want to help. I agree, memory recollection is a tricky thing under ordinary circumstances, I can imagine how it would have been effected by an event like this. I’ve had to give witness statements for minor things such as a fender bender, and even then it was harder to recall what I’d seen than I thought it’d be. I think I’ve said it before on this thread, those witnesses probably didn’t wake up thinking that a young girl would be found murdered near where they work. At the time, I’m sure they treated her like they did the dozens of other people they encountered that day, just like any other day. If I were them, in that moment, I’d want desperately to help investigators any way that I could.

I agree about the inmate as well, I doubt that anyone close to her would lie after finding out what had happened to her. Long lost daughter looking to surprise father makes more sense to me than girlfriend to young felon hitchhiking her way in the name of love.

I initially thought the Ellis unit had great significance in this case and held a clue to her identity, now I’m not so sure. It almost seems like an UID found at Disneyland who mentioned Mickey Mouse, ya know? I don’t know what to think. So much sleuthing and investigating has gone into this and still...here we are questioning the same things. I can’t begin to imagine how those of you who have followed WCJD for decades must feel.
 
Not exactly related to what everyone has been talking about but it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. Is it possible she had a link to the college there (Sam Houston State University)? The criminal justice degree is what it's known for and it's common for students to intern at Ellis prison. I'm unsure if they did internships there in 1980 though. Maybe she wasn't looking for an inmate but someone who worked/interned there? The college students would've been closer to her age than the inmates or regular workers.
 
MadMcGoo said:
If/when someone enters Huntsville they are going to know almost immediately that the town is full of prisons. Unless she was literally blindfolded and parachuted from a plane that landed her smack dab in the middle of Hitch'n Post parking lot, she likely would have known this.

So if she were going to make up a story about who she was or what she was doing, I don’t think “I’m headed to the prison to see a friend” is too far fetched in this scenario. Now, “I need directions to the Ellis Unit” is an entirely different story. That’s very specific in this case. She could have seen signs around that area indicating Ellis was close by, I’m not sure what “markers” were present back in 1980. Same with the Rockport/Port Aransas...she could have simply seen signs (if they were there).

What I’ve always wondered is this; if she were going to a specific prison to see a specific person, even being a convicted felon, why hasn’t even the tiniest rumor surfaced from or about this person. Inmates are going to talk, even officers too. So I can’t think of any scenario where this mystery “boyfriend” would still be a mystery after 40 years. Could he have been responsible for her death? Could it have been a corrections officer? Could he have been a too-frightened-to-talk death row inmate? Could he be dead by now? The answer to all these, IMO, is ‘yes’! But that still doesn’t explain how not so much as a peep about his identity has ever been uttered over the years.

That makes me think that either the “visiting a friend, need directions” story was fabricated by WCJD herself, or it was made up/exaggerated by the witnesses. Yes, more than one of them said the same thing and one even said they drew a map for her, but again, 40 years and not a peep from these witnesses (including 2nd hand ones; products of the rumor mill). As I understand it, most of the witnesses are no longer living. Also, no concrete proof that such encounters took place. Someone mentioned ice cream (milkshake) showing up during her autopsy. That’s a perfect example and something that would give credibility to the account. Similar to the fruit that the Sumter Mystery Couple did ingest; proven by the autopsy results.

Although not probable, for all we really know, the girl we call WCJD may not even be the girl witnesses described seeing at the Hitch'n Post and the gas station. So maybe a disheveled, bratty, 19-year-old girl did speak with a waitress, get directions to the Ellis Unit, order and drink a milkshake, and then leave, never to be seen again. Maybe the girl seen that day looked like the photos of WCJD shown to the witnesses and they really believed it to be the same girl. Remember though, she had been severely beaten about the face and wouldn't have looked the same. Maybe no one at the prison recognized the girl in the photos because none of them had actually seen or met her before. They were after all shown postmortem photos.

Too many frustrating "why?"s and "what if?"s. It's been far too long to be asking the same questions. Someone knows this poor girl. :(

JMOO
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*BBM*

The witnesses stated that the girl was carrying red sandals, which matches the description of the sandals found near Walker County Jane Doe's body. This indicates that the girl seen at the South End Gulf station and Hitch 'n' Post truck stop was WCJD. JMO.

From the Walker County Jane Doe Wikipedia page:
"High-heeled red leather sandals with light brown straps, which investigators would subsequently discover the girl had been seen carrying while alive, were also recovered from the scene, although the remainder of her clothing was missing.

[...]

Following exhaustive witness appeals and extensive media accounts regarding this murder, numerous individuals (all of whom are now deceased) informed investigators they had seen a teenage girl matching the decedent's description within the 24 hours prior to her murder. These individuals include the manager of a South End Gulf station and two employees at the Hitch 'n' Post truck stop, all of whom described this girl as wearing blue jeans, a dirty yellow pullover, and a white knit sweater with noticeably large pockets which extended past her waist. This girl had been carrying red leather-strapped high heel sandals."
 
sunnynz said:
Maybe they were her only shoes. I believe they were geeks so she probably took them off because her feet were sore. Nothing too unusual in that.
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I doubt it. I couldn't find any mention of her being barefoot, which would have been notable.
 
NotSHolmes said:
I doubt it. I couldn't find any mention of her being barefoot, which would have been notable.
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If you search back through the threads on websleuths there's been a lot of discussion about her walking barefoot - the assumption being that she was since she was carrying her shoes in her hand. i.e. that being more likely than her carrying a second pair of shoes in her hand. But I don't believe that it's specified in any official site or MSM whether she had shoes on her feet or not.

I personally go with the more likely option IMO which was that her shoes were hurting her so she had taken them off - I've done that many a time in my life, and most especially as a teenager when wearing heels.
 
Sounds like her feet were tired and they became uncomfortable for her to walk in. Makes me think, she didn't originally plan that she would have to do a lot of walking.....or, her original frame of mind, as in many young girls, was looking fashionable before comfort.
 
I wish they would use the genealogy testing available for her, I so want her to be her name back. Just a thought when reading through the thread...if she was meeting someone from the Ellis unit, or using it as a point of reference to meet someone nearby, then they must have had a reason for not coming forward. I know news didn’t travel fast back then but I’m sure in the days that followed it would have filtered through. So that would leave four explanations. One, who ever she was meeting knew she was found murdered and although they had nothing to do with it, they had their own reasons for not coming forward, illegal activity being involved maybe an older man involved with a younger girl, guard involved with a young girl, drugs, prostitution etc. Two, whoever she was meeting was involved directly or indirectly in her murder. Three, she was meeting someone there passing through, using Ellis as a meeting point before moving on and they never found out why she didn’t show. Four, either she was lying about Ellis as her destination or the witnesses were mistaken.

I am inclined to think it might be one. If witnesses are to be believe she asked for directions to Ellis unit twice, she must have had a reason to ask for it specifically and she was in the general area. I do believe the meeting a boyfriend there may be true, although it may not be an inmate, possibly a guard or someone living nearby, and it might not have been a boyfriend, maybe a John if prostitution or trafficking was involved. Anyway I may be rambling, I guess the just of what I am trying to say is I think someone working, incarcerated or living near Ellis at this time knows, or did know assuming they’ve not passed, more about this girl.
 
weegee said:
I wish they would use the genealogy testing available for her, I so want her to be her name back. Just a thought when reading through the thread...if she was meeting someone from the Ellis unit, or using it as a point of reference to meet someone nearby, then they must have had a reason for not coming forward. I know news didn’t travel fast back then but I’m sure in the days that followed it would have filtered through. So that would leave four explanations. One, who ever she was meeting knew she was found murdered and although they had nothing to do with it, they had their own reasons for not coming forward, illegal activity being involved maybe an older man involved with a younger girl, guard involved with a young girl, drugs, prostitution etc. Two, whoever she was meeting was involved directly or indirectly in her murder. Three, she was meeting someone there passing through, using Ellis as a meeting point before moving on and they never found out why she didn’t show. Four, either she was lying about Ellis as her destination or the witnesses were mistaken.

I am inclined to think it might be one. If witnesses are to be believe she asked for directions to Ellis unit twice, she must have had a reason to ask for it specifically and she was in the general area. I do believe the meeting a boyfriend there may be true, although it may not be an inmate, possibly a guard or someone living nearby, and it might not have been a boyfriend, maybe a John if prostitution or trafficking was involved. Anyway I may be rambling, I guess the just of what I am trying to say is I think someone working, incarcerated or living near Ellis at this time knows, or did know assuming they’ve not passed, more about this girl.
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I was just thinking similar thoughts myself. Was she really headed to the Ellis unit? If the witnesses are correct, and she was lying about her age, she could also not really be from the aransas pass area. She may have been worried she might be sent back home if she revealed her true identity/location/destination, I was in a similar situation myself as a teen, fearful of giving correct information as I wanted to escape, afraid of being sent home. If this was the case I understand completely.
 
NotSHolmes said:
That's an interesting detail I had obviously glanced over before. I wonder the significance of the sandals, why she carried them around rather than wearing them.
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As someone that use to hitchhike a lot, I would take off my shoes when I had been walking for so long and my feet hurt. If she left with sandles, chances are they were uncomfortable after an hour or two.
 
jessica- said:
As someone that use to hitchhike a lot, I would take off my shoes when I had been walking for so long and my feet hurt. If she left with sandles, chances are they were uncomfortable after an hour or two.
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I just wonder that it wasn't ever noted. Perhaps it's more common than I think.
 
If she were a prison pen pal, the prisoner may have never met or seen her and would have had no idea what she looked like, unless she sent a picture.
If her visit was intended to be a surprise or was spur of the moment, he may not have known she was coming to visit.
Both of those scenarios could explain why none of the prisoners knew who she was or recognized her picture, assuming her explanation as to what she was doing there was the truth.
 
Has it ever been considered that she was asked by the driver she hitched a ride from to get directions?

Also, and I do know this is pretty farfetched but...could a prisoner, guard, local lured her to area for the purpose of being raped and murdered? If say an inmate lured her by mail and/or phone calls and a guard/local/associate/ect paid him to do so for their own sick purposes? With all the trafficking it could be possible.
 
Alleykins said:
If she were a prison pen pal, the prisoner may have never met or seen her and would have had no idea what she looked like, unless she sent a picture.
If her visit was intended to be a surprise or was spur of the moment, he may not have known she was coming to visit.
Both of those scenarios could explain why none of the prisoners knew who she was or recognized her picture, assuming her explanation as to what she was doing there was the truth.
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But wouldn't the jail be aware of any inmates that are part of a pen pal system? Inmates in general need to have their mail monitored and gone through before they actually get it.
 
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