FL FL - Sumter Co, 'Little Miss Panasoffkee', WhtFem 17-24, 470UFFL, Feb'71

Aww what happened to Helen please? X

July will be 3 years we've been waiting for confirmation, mostly due to NCMEC caring more about newer cases. My partner has been working her a$$ off to get Helen's family answers. Now hopefully my partners sister Debora Sue Lowe will get found one day.
 
July will be 3 years we've been waiting for confirmation, mostly due to NCMEC caring more about newer cases. My partner has been working her a$$ off to get Helen's family answers. Now hopefully my partners sister Debora Sue Lowe will get found one day.
Really?? So, a DNA sample was submitted for comparison 3yrs ago and still nothing has been done with it?? I would be very worried by now about contamination occurring! Is it a 3yr backlog of cases or are NCMEC testing more recent samples regarding other persons cases, even samples they have received in the 3yrs since Helen's was given?? That's almost like 1 person is deemed less important than another person and that is wrong. To be fair, priority should be given, not to certain cases but to each individual DNA sample as and when it is received. This enrages me sorry! X
I pray hard for your family to 1 day be reunited with your partner's sister, Debora-Sue. God Bless. X
 
Really?? So, a DNA sample was submitted for comparison 3yrs ago and still nothing has been done with it?? I would be very worried by now about contamination occurring! Is it a 3yr backlog of cases or are NCMEC testing more recent samples regarding other persons cases, even samples they have received in the 3yrs since Helen's was given?? That's almost like 1 person is deemed less important than another person and that is wrong. To be fair, priority should be given, not to certain cases but to each individual DNA sample as and when it is received. This enrages me sorry! X
I pray hard for your family to 1 day be reunited with your partner's sister, Debora-Sue. God Bless. X

I really wish I could say more. In a few months when its confirmed we'll elaborate more
 
Really?? So, a DNA sample was submitted for comparison 3yrs ago and still nothing has been done with it?? I would be very worried by now about contamination occurring! Is it a 3yr backlog of cases or are NCMEC testing more recent samples regarding other persons cases, even samples they have received in the 3yrs since Helen's was given?? That's almost like 1 person is deemed less important than another person and that is wrong. To be fair, priority should be given, not to certain cases but to each individual DNA sample as and when it is received. This enrages me sorry! X
I pray hard for your family to 1 day be reunited with your partner's sister, Debora-Sue. God Bless. X

I know of several other cases that have had similar delays. There are a variety of reasons and it's not that the person is less important. A current case often has court dates to meet, or hope of stopping a criminal from harming more people, for instance. Some agencies work more on cases they think have a better chance of being solved. There are laboratory backlogs and shortages of tests and the people to run the tests. It all gets quite complicated.
 
I know of several other cases that have had similar delays. There are a variety of reasons and it's not that the person is less important. A current case often has court dates to meet, or hope of stopping a criminal from harming more people, for instance. Some agencies work more on cases they think have a better chance of being solved. There are laboratory backlogs and shortages of tests and the people to run the tests. It all gets quite complicated.
Of course, I understand and I don't necessarily believe that LE do give priority to people of higher social status per,se. But I did think that current cases and cold cases were 2 completely different departments. I probably watch too much TV but isn't a cold case task force team a group of individuals, be it In-office or retired LE who are dedicated to just cold cases? Therefore, current cases and court appearances would not affect that team as such? Also, it must be frustrating for families who have waited 2, 3 perhaps 4yrs just for confirmation when other cases, for instance, Denim/Mostly Harmless, have seen a number of men submitted and ruled out in under 3yrs. I just feel with a case as old as Helen's, time is of the essence if you know what I mean. On another note, I do have much respect and gratitude for all persons who work tirelessly on both cold and current cases in order to give families the answers they seek X
 
Of course, I understand and I don't necessarily believe that LE do give priority to people of higher social status per,se. But I did think that current cases and cold cases were 2 completely different departments. I probably watch too much TV but isn't a cold case task force team a group of individuals, be it In-office or retired LE who are dedicated to just cold cases? Therefore, current cases and court appearances would not affect that team as such? Also, it must be frustrating for families who have waited 2, 3 perhaps 4yrs just for confirmation when other cases, for instance, Denim/Mostly Harmless, have seen a number of men submitted and ruled out in under 3yrs. I just feel with a case as old as Helen's, time is of the essence if you know what I mean. On another note, I do have much respect and gratitude for all persons who work tirelessly on both cold and current cases in order to give families the answers they seek X

No doubt it's frustrating at best and heartbreaking for the families. And I'm sure not all agencies are as competent and honest as I'm making it sound :p

One thing with Denim is that ruleouts are usually a lot faster than confirmation. Especially if the missing person or the UID don't have direct relatives and they have to track down several cousins to get enough DNA information to make an identity certain.

If there is a cold case unit, then yes, it usually operates separately. Some such units are fully staffed with adequate budget (the recent Virginia project to go through all their UIDs and missing people and investigate all matches, for instance) but usually they only work on a subset of cases. If they're working with retired staff (who are often part time) or people giving their extra time, progress will be slow because of the limited hours. But most missing persons cases are mixed in with all the other everyday stuff and don't get as much attention.

UID cases in many states aren't even handled by regular police or sheriff's offices; they're investigated by the medical examiner's office. There's a shortage of qualified MEs nationwide right now, and with the opiate and meth epidemics, many ME offices are swamped with everyday work.

I've been trying to poke my local legislators to increase state funding for DNA testing and cold case investigation, but there are so many other needs. It's sad.
 
No doubt it's frustrating at best and heartbreaking for the families. And I'm sure not all agencies are as competent and honest as I'm making it sound :p

One thing with Denim is that ruleouts are usually a lot faster than confirmation. Especially if the missing person or the UID don't have direct relatives and they have to track down several cousins to get enough DNA information to make an identity certain.

If there is a cold case unit, then yes, it usually operates separately. Some such units are fully staffed with adequate budget (the recent Virginia project to go through all their UIDs and missing people and investigate all matches, for instance) but usually they only work on a subset of cases. If they're working with retired staff (who are often part time) or people giving their extra time, progress will be slow because of the limited hours. But most missing persons cases are mixed in with all the other everyday stuff and don't get as much attention.

UID cases in many states aren't even handled by regular police or sheriff's offices; they're investigated by the medical examiner's office. There's a shortage of qualified MEs nationwide right now, and with the opiate and meth epidemics, many ME offices are swamped with everyday work.

I've been trying to poke my local legislators to increase state funding for DNA testing and cold case investigation, but there are so many other needs. It's sad.
Aww it is very sad.. (God loves a trier. I'm sure he will reward you for your dedication one day pal. He will) X
 
Weirdly enough, I was thinking about this case just a few hours ago completely unprompted; as far as I know, Little Miss Lake Panasoffkee's case was one of the first I'd truly looked into when I became interested in unidentified decedent cases. Today marks 50 years since she was found. Half a century, yet still nameless.
 
I wonder if it is possible to put Little Miss P forward for familial DNA tracing. So many successes recently. I know it's not the perceived wisdom on her case but I would not be surprised if she is the victim of domestic violence. Immigrant Greek family, she gets killed on the way home from an Epiphany celebration trip. Her absence is explained away by saying she went back to Greece. That would also explain why she had given birth. We don't know anything about her but it's as likely as any other explanation. But in this case her child(ren) or their cousins would possibly still live in the US and she could be traced via the familial DNA tracing method.
 
I wonder if it is possible to put Little Miss P forward for familial DNA tracing. So many successes recently. I know it's not the perceived wisdom on her case but I would not be surprised if she is the victim of domestic violence. Immigrant Greek family, she gets killed on the way home from an Epiphany celebration trip. Her absence is explained away by saying she went back to Greece. That would also explain why she had given birth. We don't know anything about her but it's as likely as any other explanation. But in this case her child(ren) or their cousins would possibly still live in the US and she could be traced via the familial DNA tracing method.

Think you can help us out with this one @othram ?
 
MAR 1, 2021
Search for Little Miss Panasoffkee’s real name and killer continues, even after 50 years - Central Florida News - 90.7 WMFE
[...]

Here’s what we know so far. Little Miss Panasoffkee was a 17- to 24-year-old white woman with dark hair and brown eyes. She was maybe 5-foot-5 and weighed about 110 pounds.

She was probably from southeastern Europe, possibly Greece, and came to the U.S. in the previous year.

She had had surgery to stabilize her right ankle and lots of dental work.

When she died, Little Miss Panasoffkee was wearing plaid green pants, a green shirt and a green-and-yellow shawl. She was still wearing jewelry, too, a gold ring with a clear stone on her ring finger, a Baylor watch and a thin gold chain.

She had been strangled and was found with a man’s belt, size 36, around her neck.

[...]

“She was wrapped in a blanket, like a house rug, and dropped over the Panasoffkee bridge,” Farmer says. “And the reason these guys saw her, she had one hand that was draped over a root coming out of the water.”

[...]

In 1992, the case appeared on “Unsolved Mysteries” with Robert Stack.

Panasoffkee1b-172x400.jpg

A full-length composite drawing of Little Miss Panasoffkee showing the clothing she was wearing. Credit: USF

Twenty years later, Farmer, who was now sheriff, brought in forensic anthropologists with the University of South Florida. They exhumed the remains and made new sketches.

[...]

The evidence pointed to southeastern Europe.

And the shifting carbon isotopes in her hair showed a grain-based European diet at the tips and a corn-based American diet near the roots. So she had probably moved here in the previous 10 months.

[...]
 
MAR 1, 2021

She was probably from southeastern Europe, possibly Greece, and came to the U.S. in the previous year.


And the shifting carbon isotopes in her hair showed a grain-based European diet at the tips and a corn-based American diet near the roots. So she had probably moved here in the previous 10 months.

[...]

While corn based = American vs grain based = European certainly held true for preindustrial societies I cannot believe that there was such a huge difference in the era of imported global food production. I am in Europe and eat a lot of corn. When I spent time in the US, actually I never ate corn. My isotopes would be totally off.
 
While corn based = American vs grain based = European certainly held true for preindustrial societies I cannot believe that there was such a huge difference in the era of imported global food production. I am in Europe and eat a lot of corn. When I spent time in the US, actually I never ate corn. My isotopes would be totally off.

America uses corn in EVERYTHING, hence why I assume they suspected the addition of large amounts of corn suddenly meant she came from somewhere else. I don’t think Americans in general probably eat much more corn in the pure sense of the word, it’s more that it’s an ingredient in just about any food available for purchase in America. Did you know that you consume corn when you eat a conventionally grown apple? It’s in the waxy coating applied to apples to protect them from spoiling.

Cheap Corn Permeates Every Facet of the American Diet
 
Also they use a lot of HFCS in everything sweet, which is again, corn... but I am not sure if such highly processed things would still carry the same isotope signature.

Plus, in 1971, most of those were not used yet but maybe Europeans ate less corn then (i think so, have to ask my parents) and Americans ate more traditional corn food such as corn cakes, corn dogs, corn on the cob than today?
 
I don’t think we should let the corn observations send us down a rabbit hole, because as you say, our diets were very different 50 years ago and it probably wouldn’t have even been an issue back then.
 
America uses corn in EVERYTHING, hence why I assume they suspected the addition of large amounts of corn suddenly meant she came from somewhere else. I don’t think Americans in general probably eat much more corn in the pure sense of the word, it’s more that it’s an ingredient in just about any food available for purchase in America. Did you know that you consume corn when you eat a conventionally grown apple? It’s in the waxy coating applied to apples to protect them from spoiling.

Cheap Corn Permeates Every Facet of the American Diet

I agree this is probably a big factor. Probably even the corn that was feed to beef and pork animals gets into the isotopes. Corn sweeteners, corn fillers, cornstarch, on and on.
 
High fructose corn syrop as a sweetener and sugar replacement wasn't a big thing yet in 1971 so we shouldn't think of today's American and European diets. Likewise, I believe one isotope analysis placed Little Miss P in the Lavrion area near Athens. Greece in the 1960s was still a relatively poor country. I am pretty sure the scientists doing isotope analysis know what they are talking about. In any case, her isotopes show that she had a sudden, dramatic change of diet in the period leading up to her murder. So, whatever the story of regional diets, she moved to a place with a vastly different diet.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
163
Guests online
1,933
Total visitors
2,096

Forum statistics

Threads
590,043
Messages
17,929,276
Members
228,044
Latest member
Bosie
Back
Top