Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[Falling Down]

I disagree, especially since one of the girl's underwear was removed. The police found a pair of girl's underwear under the bridge, in the water. This indicates a sexual assault.

I learned about found underwear by listening to the recordings of the radio transmissions between searchers and search HQ.

I've been following this case since the week they were found, I'm not aware of any clothing found in that creek being linked to the crimes.

 

[Seabreeze1]

I have followed this case from the start but haven't posted in this thread before. I have a question, if the Perp was to follow this case on websleuths, would there be a way to see who has been watching the threads the whole time and trace them through their IP address. Also. may be a member who only joined after the fact? Just a thought but probably a crazy one.

 

[Torch Carrier]

I have followed this case from the start but haven't posted in this thread before. I have a question, if the Perp was to follow this case on websleuths, would there be a way to see who has been watching the threads the whole time and trace them through their IP address. Also. may be a member who only joined after the fact? Just a thought but probably a crazy one.

I've wondered same espec since they re-formatted the whole WS site maybe this would allow more to be gleaned from those who are following here … ?

 

[Torch Carrier]

Anyone think it possible that sketch #2 is an age-REgression of an older suspect? I still don't get the age range BG is TRULY likely to be in. The video stills and 2 sketches are so contradictory. I remain hopeful that BG himself is somehow lured forward by this ploy on the part of LE

 

[curiousgene]

I suddenly thought, everyone is looking at Evansdale murders, but what if Flora fire was more connected? Maybe the MO - killing several kids - is meant to distract from the fact that in each case, only one needed to die? Maybe it is not a SK, but rather, serial child molester? And as soon as there is the chance that the child would talk, several are killed, to make it look like an accident, or a SK's act? We constantly wonder, who did he target, Libby or Abby? As to the Flora case, it is all but forgotten, and yet, it was initially called arson. And the older girl was 11 and a cheerleader. Maybe, instead of looking at Evansdale, one could see where the paths of the Flora and the Delphi girls could have crossed? I think it could be some sport activity, but maybe, something else? Was there a predator that could have abused one of Flora girls, and then wiped it off, so to say, by the fire? And then did the same to one of Delphi girls and killed two, to look as a SK?

ETA. We are looking at physical similarities between Delphi and Evansdale girls, but maybe we should look at the Flora and Delphi girls. They are of a different race, but maybe two of them had similar built, height, or other characteristics that he is attracted to? Besides young age?

What is happening with the Flora case?

You have a point here. We need to look at the Flora case closely and see if there is a POI in the case. There is a strong possibility of a connection between the two. Maybe this guy started with arson and after the Flora case felt more confident to target girls in broad daylight. I do think though that this guy is a SK or has upgraded himself to one after having escaped the eyes of LE for his other crimes. MOO.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

I've been following this case since the week they were found, I'm not aware of any clothing found in that creek being linked to the crimes.

I initially knew of the girls underwear found in the creek via the recordings, but "basement" talk isn't allowed up here. Later, it was published, I believe in the "Down the Hill" podcast. Also, a cigarette butt that looked "2-3 days old" was found. But with so many searchers looking, it could have been dropped by any one of them. And are the panties linked to the crime? They were found in the water, that's all we know.

 

[Charlot123]

You have a point here. We need to look at the Flora case closely and see if there is a POI in the case. There is a strong possibility of a connection between the two. Maybe this guy started with arson and after the Flora case felt more confident to target girls in broad daylight. I do think though that this guy is a SK or has upgraded himself to one after having escaped the eyes of LE for his other crimes. MOO.

That, too. The triad, arson, cruelty to animals, enuresis till teenage years...

There are different opinions about its relevance, but the triad exists. I think it indicates some brain damage in childhood at least.

Another thing, not on msm, but someone posted list of disappeared in Indiana in 2016-17, the link itself is msm, however. I wonder if the police looked at it, as well as maybe list of arsons at the same time?

If the guy is a SK, he will be killing in his area until he moves. Same with arsons.

 

[Charlot123]

I have followed this case from the start but haven't posted in this thread before. I have a question, if the Perp was to follow this case on websleuths, would there be a way to see who has been watching the threads the whole time and trace them through their IP address. Also. may be a member who only joined after the fact? Just a thought but probably a crazy one.

I would not be surprised if he follows here and, more likely, is a member of some groups on other media, but I don’t think it will lead us anywhere.

1) privacy issues. People are paranoid about privacy, one doesn’t want to invade it more. If they start checking IP addresses, people might leave. Any speculation that LE is checking IP addresses at the forum will do irreparable damage to the forum, that is all. Look at Gedmatch.

2) Again, it could maybe help guess who he is, but won’t stay in court. The LE asks for a tip that could be a proof, how can “he posted on Websleuths” be a proof?

3) Anyhow, my guess would be, he is too smart to post himself. He may be hiding behind his friend, his mom, or his woman.

ETA: I was thinking about “joining after the fact” factor, but it may mean nothing. 1) The person might have joined after the first kill, and it could have been before Delphi. 2) He might be interested in true crime. 3) Example: I joined after Delphi, but it is obvious, why, if anyone tracks my first post; I hope “my” case will ever be solved. Also, in 2018, Delphi thread was a non-issue. It was Chris Watts, and then, Kelsie Berreth.

4) I think that the perp’s style would be to check all criminal sources for this case. In other countries, too. That could lead us somewhere. Trouble is, FBI and LE might be doing exactly the same, so you can never tell who the person on the forum is ))).

 

[JnRyan]

I have followed this case from the start but haven't posted in this thread before. I have a question, if the Perp was to follow this case on websleuths, would there be a way to see who has been watching the threads the whole time and trace them through their IP address. Also. may be a member who only joined after the fact? Just a thought but probably a crazy one.

I find myself wondering that very same thing and not just on this case. (I know of at least 2 other cases on here right off where a POI or the father of a POI was posting and we all knew it.) However, for quite some time I followed cases on here without signing up. That is, I came on as a guest. IOW, a 'lurker'. There may a way to trace someone through their IP address IF they are signed up. I suspect that might not be possible if they come on here as a guest.

That said, I'm far from an expert on computers and IT. MAYBE the guests can be traced. This might one of those things the killer would like to know. And, one day he will.

 

[HockeyMom330]

You have a point here. We need to look at the Flora case closely and see if there is a POI in the case. There is a strong possibility of a connection between the two. Maybe this guy started with arson and after the Flora case felt more confident to target girls in broad daylight. I do think though that this guy is a SK or has upgraded himself to one after having escaped the eyes of LE for his other crimes. MOO.

I too think the Flora case is worth extra sleuthing for a possible connection as the towns are only about 10 miles apart, and both accessible from the Hoosier Heartland Highway. Indiana Packers is about halfway between Delphi and Flora and both towns are about halfway between the larger centers of Lafayette and Logansport. Not only is proximity more on target compared to the Iowa case, but time frame is as well as the Flora fire was set only a few months before the girls' murders. Although the crimes are very different, in both cases multiple juvenile females were the victims. I could be wrong, but I think there are some connections among LE/firefighters and searchers in the Delphi case. The Flora fire and Delphi murders are both really big, complex cases. Are they coincidence, or is there a common evil?

 

[8771]

... we hear VERY little about the Flora fire. Even if they are not connected, why is that?

Unfortunately, it's likely because the victims are black.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/black-homicides-arrests/

 

[Cryptic]

This is why it is tough decision what to release, and what to keep. After all, the girlfriend of Ted Bundy who reported him...she saw some abnormality. Enough to give the police a call.

Very good points.

The Uni Bomber investigators also faced that dilemma as well. The bomber had repeatedly demanded that his garbled manifestos be published.

The investigators were reluctant to publish them for fear of him demanding more concessions by threatening more bombs.

After a period of time, the investigators decided to follow his demands and publish the manifestos. Evidently, the Uni Bomber's brother and perhaps a former teacher recognized his writing style / ideaology.

As you mentioned, it only takes one person to be aware of a detail, regognize it association with somebody and call it in.

For example, decades ago, I worked in a garage. In the course of changing tires, I once noticed bags of extemely hard core "S&M" *advertiser censored* and other hard core *advertiser censored* in a trunk.

Had there been a horrible crime and the police released say a possible SM link, I could have told them:
- The tires the customer bought (tread).
- Which old tires he probably left for disposal (tread)
- His car, the name he gave, his signature, his description
- Where he likely got gas (the more extreme *advertiser censored* was probably mail order, some less extreme titles were carried by two local gas stations- Never into *advertiser censored*, but some in my reserve unit had well, *advertiser censored* reading interests).

 

[TL4S]

I just listen to the walk in the woods podcast and this is something I have to say now, I find the ISP Doug Carter ramblings unprofessional. He sounds more like a philosopher, pastor delivering a lecture than an LE officer speaking. I have been listening to him since the beginning when he first appeared on a TV channel for this case, I can't remember which one right now but, I get the feeling he is preparing himself to stand up for an election as a mayor/ state representative. For a change, I think we should hear from some other officers who are actually involved in the case. I honestly see a lot of issues coming up if there is an arrest and a trial in this case. MOO

I have to say, I've actually wondered if maybe there's a reason DC is the one doing these interviews, and who did the infamous April PC, and why he speaks the way he speaks. Maybe it's a tactic based off the FBI profile or something, like maybe LE is hoping DC's presence, demeanor, or speaking style might influence BG or the person(s) who knows what BG did. IDK.

 

[JnRyan]

Unfortunately, it's likely because the victims are black.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/black-homicides-arrests/

Whether that is the reason or not, the appearance of it being because of the victims' race is not a good sign. Evidently there are very few deaths in this community due to foul play and we have one case with black victims with almost zero publicity. And another involving white victims and LE went to general quarters over it.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I have to say, I've actually wondered if maybe there's a reason DC is the one doing these interviews, and who did the infamous April PC, and why he speaks the way he speaks. Maybe it's a tactic based off the FBI profile or something, like maybe LE is hoping DC's presence, demeanor, or speaking style might influence BG or the person(s) who knows what BG did. IDK.

Quoted bbm

I think your right and will take it a step further with a suggestion.

It could also be because LE is pretty sure that D.C. may have been the one who (paraphrased) 'interviewed him or someone close to him.'

JMO - D.C. has been very hands-on in this case from the very beginning.

 

[heartgoesout]

I have followed this case from the start but haven't posted in this thread before. I have a question, if the Perp was to follow this case on websleuths, would there be a way to see who has been watching the threads the whole time and trace them through their IP address. Also. may be a member who only joined after the fact? Just a thought but probably a crazy one.

Crazy, no. Most probable, yes.

 

[Falcon500]

Quoted bbm

I think your right and will take it a step further with a suggestion.

It could also be because LE is pretty sure that D.C. may have been the one who (paraphrased) 'interviewed him or someone close to him.'

JMO - D.C. has been very hands-on in this case from the very beginning.

Superintendent Carter hasn’t interviewed anyone. He is the Chief of Police (title is superintendent) of the Indiana State Police. There are 92 counties, 14 detachments, and many other sub-detachments that he is responsible for. He doesn’t work in Delphi although it might seem like it. . His office is in Indianapolis and very little of his time involves the Delphi murders.

I’ve wondered how he finds time to appear on every podcast that Joe Shmoe chooses to produce.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Whether that is the reason or not, the appearance of it being because of the victims' race is not a good sign. Evidently there are very few deaths in this community due to foul play and we have one case with black victims with almost zero publicity. And another involving white victims and LE went to general quarters over it.

BBM. Yeah. Not a good look for Indiana LE.

I am certain the Flora case doesn’t get much press because of the race of the victims. Very sad. If they had been white, it would have been MAJOR news. What a world we live in.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

I have followed this case from the start but haven't posted in this thread before. I have a question, if the Perp was to follow this case on websleuths, would there be a way to see who has been watching the threads the whole time and trace them through their IP address. Also. may be a member who only joined after the fact? Just a thought but probably a crazy one.

I don’t think it’s crazy. There have been some posts in the past that have seemed “off” to me; I’m pretty sure this has been mentioned before.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Superintendent Carter hasn’t interviewed anyone. He is the Chief of Police (title is superintendent) of the Indiana State Police. There are 92 counties, 14 detachments, and many other sub-detachments that he is responsible for. He doesn’t work in Delphi although it might seem like it. . His office is in Indianapolis and very little of his time involves the Delphi murders.

I’ve wondered how he finds time to appear on every podcast that Joe Shmoe chooses to produce.

Interviews can also be consultations.

This interview may not have been in the capacity that most people are thinking of.

From what you are saying, it sounds like he is only involved in this case at a 'high level' then. Fair enough and I respect your professional knowledge and all I am giving is my opinion here.

That is NOT my interpretation from listening to his countless interviews and reading many articles.

He encourages the public to e-mail tips to him directly in this link at around the 12 minute mark. Why give his own e-mail address if he is spending very little time on the Delphi case?

He has the girls names etched into his desk and carries a piece of the bridge with him.

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

“I’ve walked across the high bridge myself. It’s 65-70 feet off the river deck. It hasn’t had a train on it since 1929," Carter said. "The ties are starting to rot. It sways back and forth and it’s not something you can just jump on and walk straight across if you’ve never done it before. I decided I was going to take the riverbank going back, I didn’t. That wasn’t the first time he’s been on that high bridge, my opinion, again that’s my opinion. I experienced it and I kept a piece of the high bridge and I’ll carry it with me til we find out who this is."

“This is very personal to me. And maybe it’s because I’m in the sunset of my career, but it’s the epitome of evil," Carter said. "Those two girls, once we tell you all we know about them you might understand a little bit more about why it’s so emotional, but I think of Abby and Libby all the time. I have their names etched in my desk. I think about them all the time, I think about their families and the community and what I saw in that community. "

I know DC must be a very busy man with the huge network of responsibilies he has, but I think he spends at least a small portion of every single day on the Delphi case for him to be thinking about them all the time....not to mention the time it takes to do all these interviews and podcasts.

JMO