Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #25

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I thought about that, but I’m not sure. For example, production of the kids might entail production of evidence of abuse or murder...idk. It’s something I would devote a couple of hours of research to if I were the prosecutor, though.



That one-year thing in the statute is just a PRESUMPTION that if you’ve failed to contact your kids for a year you’ve abandoned them. Abandonment can still be proved in other ways before the one year deadline.

I don't like that presumption... sounds like C Parrett wrote it. I wanted more arguments. For some reason no one from Idaho called and asked for my non-existent legal advice. :D
 
Sorry I'm so behind! I've been really busy at work and we've all been glued to the screen watching all the local news proceedings about the case. I'm trying to catch up to questions asked in the last thread.

@Sticksandspades You asked:

"What part of any doctrine could they possibly twist to justify hiding these kids for so long or worse prematurely ending their life on earth?

Surely, any vision/whisper/voice that broke a generally accepted commandment would be questioned?"

The extreme LDS preppers who are focused on the end of days are very suspicious of government conspiracies. I watched someone very close to me in this community go through a three year period where they were convinced they were being followed and watched by the FBI. Why? Because this person was "speaking truth" about the latter day prophecies and the government wanted to silence them. I even had a bizarre meeting with this person out in a 40 acre field. We couldn't bring phones and had to be checked for wires before this person would tell me how their family was doing. They spoke in whispers the entire time. Maybe important to note: This person was a prominent member of a regular LDS and functioning in a high/upper calling. They are still a respected member and no one would suspect their paranoia and end-of-days obsession if they didn't know.

That's an extreme example, but it's one of the first things I thought of when I first heard the breaking news about Lori and Chad. This was confirmed as I visited various groups/forums I'm still a member of and saw people standing up for these people and excusing their behavior as a way to "protect the kids" against modern "Gadianton Robbers" (see Book of Mormon teachings, Gadianton Robbers are secret oath groups.) I'm really cautious about outing myself as I am afraid of a lot of these people. But their supporters seem to mostly believe that the kids are safe and are being hidden to protect them from a larger conspiracy. Either government-based or custody-case based (as Chris Parrett announced in his leaked 'vindicated' post.) We've discussed how ridiculous the custody case thing is, but these people believe anything is possible and greatly fear that they themselves might be next in a huge, orchestrated smear campaign in order to silence them.

I don't have any direct ideas about why someone like this might actually take a life. There are examples in scripture of god directing the sacrifice of a life --Nephi / Laban in the BOM, Abraham and Isaac in the Bible (though that was stopped), and many cities being destroyed by the command of god without any mention to the innocent children that would die in such an event. LDS strongly believe in life after death, so I could see in some extreme cases that being twisted to mean murder would equal protection. The fear surrounding end-of-days can be really, really high with these people, and the prophecies we have can be terrifying. In an extreme case I could see a mother feeling like it was an act of love to send her children on to the next life, though no normal member of the LDS church would condone ANY of these behaviors. But I could see an extremist going so far down a particular path that they seek to justify actions using these kinds of stories and beliefs. When Nephi kills Laban in the Book of Mormon, we're told in scripture that it's better for one man to die than for an entire nation to dwindle in unbelief. See how that could mean god endorses murder in special circumstances?

It's pure conjecture. It does seem to fit somewhat, with what has been leaked about Lori's beliefs re: bad spirits taking over a person and that person needing to be taken out by any means necessary. I also think that perhaps some undiagnosed mental illness comes into play here. I hesitate to suggest this as I struggle with depression and anxiety and don't appreciate every terrible criminal being chalked up to 'being mentally ill.' But I've seen personal friends/family get so extreme in their LDS beliefs that I begin to wonder if there aren't some serious things developing that go undiagnosed and unmedicated. Brian David Mitchell who kidnapped and raped Elizabeth Smart certainly fits under this umbrella of extremism. He was LDS, had serious mental illnesses, prophesied, wrote his own book of scripture, and justified his actions with religious precedent.

What I don’t see, and I think your claims here support this, is a larger network of LDS fringe believers supporting Chad and Lori if the children (or anyone else) have actually been harmed. Their support comes from the belief that the charges are false. This is comforting in the sense that there may not be a larger group at work here that is up to criminal activity. MOO
 
Yes, I thought that too!!! They might make a ceremony out if it or something bizarre. MOO. My heart aches for CR. I want to adopt him, I will be his reliable mom.

I'm a big softie, I often wonder how a mother could look into those big bewildered eyes... which Lori's stared into all his life, they haven't changed... and still stay cold?

I mean, all of the rest makes sense to me because I am amongst the section of WS'ers who thinks that Lori thinks she really is a god and a translated being... it becomes really difficult for me to see and agree with any other interpretation, as Lori haughtily smirks and sticks her nose up in the air 24/7, and glares at the camera with looks that would kill.

Also, if the statute is 12 months, and it's only been 6 months, I'm not surprised that Lori's not surprised nor worried. I'm just wondering, is she sitting there telling her defense team that she doesn't need to worry and they don't need to worry, because the world will end in 4 months on July 20th and thus, who cares??! (I mean, I'm supposing she wouldn't, because even Lori could figure out that if she does share with them her whacked out worldview, soon we'll start to see her lawyers exiting the jail with seasick looks on their faces, muttering things about "being invited to join the 144,000" but, I digress; you all doubtless know what I mean).
 
I am not a lawyer, by any means. this is Just My Opinion.

From what I understand the Prosecution has the burden of proof (6 yr. Debate/Speech).

So, if she is charged with murdering her children the Prosecution would need to prove this.

Thus far, what we have seen, is that this could potentially be the case (highly probable). However, speculation would not be enough to even take this to trial. Prosecution would not only want proof, they would want to make sure, that they can tie it to Lori specifically, and make sure the charges stick. The best bet, is if they actually found the bodies, and evidence tying to LVD.

I have heard that cases have been won, without a body, but the burden of proof still needs to be there, which makes the case much harder.

This case is exceptionally difficult. Thus far, Lori has not even said if the kids are alive or dead. Without the bodies, I don't even know how prosecution could show burden of proof. The kids vanished, and no one seems to know where.

Add to that, that one of the key POI's is now dead. If Lori can't be directly tied to the kid's disappearance, she can conveniently pin this all on Alex. I, for one, am not even sure Alex killed anyone, but it wouldn't surprise me that he will be the scapegoat for all of the dead bodies connected to LVD & CD.

I am 100% convinced that Lori helped murder CV (50/50 that she pulled the trigger). Lori definitely knows exactly what happened to those kids, but she may be able to get away with all of it.

MOO
I disagree. She will have to answer to Federal authorities for fraud. She was spending government funds meant for the children on herself. Let this play out and then the feds can pounce. FBI agents don’t hang out in rural court rooms without a good reason.
 
Nugget from prosecutor during the hearing - " ...and at that point, the defendent is gone. Now they say it's a planned move, maybe they did plan to move to Hawaii however, they clearly left very quickly as soon as they were contacted by LE, the vast majority of their belongings were still in that apartment."

I knew they left some toys behind but I didn't realize they left everything else. We kept hearing they packed up a truck so I assumed they cleared out and dumped everything. Surprised that didn't come up at Kauai bail hearing.
 
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Nate Eaton - Reporter
Isnt it great to know we are cheering for the good guys? These are the good guys!
 
I worked for year at a repossession company that often dealt with bail companies. My understanding is if the bail is 5mil, she'd have to come up with $500,000 for a bail company. She'd lose it if she ditched or bailed. If she didn't bail she's only out $500,000. If she had to come up with 5mil of her own... and if she ditched she'd lose it all? She's out $500,000, because there's no way she has 5mil.

You’re right but what’s missing is if she ditched the BAIL COMPANY is out the FULL 5mil. That’s where bounty hunters come in.
 
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The feds would have to prove that those funds were not being used for the welfare of the child. If, hypothetically, she was using those fund to pay for their care - then she’s ok and they wouldn’t be abandoned.

I would love to believe that this is the case and that’s why she is smirking.

IIRC, the affidavit of the Chandler AZ (?) detective that we've seen, specifically contained a numbered section saying that Lori's finances were thoroughly combed through, and there was no evidence that a penny of money in her accounts was being sent anywhere that could be construed as "for the children's care".
 
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