Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[No it's not]

In one interview, maybe in the video linked a page or so back, DC also says he doesn't think the four girls who died in the Flora fire were killed intentionally. The fire may have been arson, but LE must have reason to think it wasn't set with murder in mind. JMO

The interview (posted by bradfordsleuth yesterday), marker 9:50 ff

 

[TL4S]

The interview (posted by bradfordsleuth yesterday), marker 9:50 ff

Thank you!

 

[No it's not]

Thank you!

You are welcome TL4S..

Regarding the Delphi case, here is another interesting 7 min clip promoting the HLN podcast. It includes Sheriff Tobe Leazenby's comment
about "3-4 names":

 

[No it's not]

Remember the 25 - early- number of possible pois, down to 5, possibly down to 3-4 now..? Familial genealogy anyone..?

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[Cutiekitty]

Well...so far, he is better than Indiana police, that simple.

Nope, not better just luckier.

 

[Ozoner]

Remember the 25 - early- number of possible pois, down to 5, possibly down to 3-4 now..? Familial genealogy anyone..?

ALL IMO

-Nin

It's possible. However, if they're down to "3 to 4 names," that could just mean that there are 3 to 4 suspects that they haven't been able to clear. The actual perp might not be any one of the 3 to 4.

 

[TL4S]

I'm just finally listening to part 6 of the podcast. Around the 21:00 mark, DC is talking about the searchers and said, "there was nothing compromised by them doing what they did."

ETA: DC also says (paraphrasing) while they have a bit more unreleased information about what happened between the end of the bridge and the cs, there's also a lot they don't know. When asked if it's the easiest solution, he says no, it's complex.

Add those statements to Holeman's statement about the reenactments being wrong, and my thoughts continue to move away from the simple scenario of "down the hill" at the end of the bridge, march them across the creek to a predetermined location, then kill them, all while L has her phone recording.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I'm just finally listening to part 6 of the podcast. Around the 21:00 mark, DC is talking about the searchers and said, "there was nothing compromised by them doing what they did."

ETA: DC also says (paraphrasing) while they have a bit more unreleased information about what happened between the end of the bridge and the cs, there's also a lot they don't know. When asked if it's the easiest solution, he says no, it's complex.

Add those statements to Holeman's statement about the reenactments being wrong, and my thoughts continue to move away from the simple scenario of "down the hill" at the end of the bridge, march them across the creek to a predetermined location, then kill them, all while L has her phone recording.

100% agree.

 

[JDough]

"I think a cold case is like a sketch. A sketch is not a photograph — it's an idea, it's a rendering," Doug Carter, ISP Superintendent, said. "I think a cold case is when there's absolutely nothing, and that's not the case here."

"I've heard those detectives tell me, 'when we get done, superintendent, we're gonna start all over.' And that's what they've done, and they'll continue to do that".

These words will resonate with everyone here, but this is DC talking about the Flora fire where four children aged 5, 7, 9 and 11 perished. It happened 12 weeks before Abby and Libby, and coincidentally also happened on a Monday.

Neither case has progressed in 3 years and DC still says they’re not cold. It seems as though there may be one or more persons who lives in or frequents Carroll County who has a depraved indifference to human life.

There doesn't appear to be a thread for the Flora fire which is disappointing, but here are links for the first, second and third anniversaries.

One year later: Remembering four sisters killed in Flora house fire

On 2-year anniversary of deadly Flora fire, family honors 4 sisters killed

Three years later: Investigation of Flora Fire that killed four sisters continues

If I am not mistaken, in one of the on-camera interviews in the Abby and Libby case, LE (and I think (?) It was DC), indicated the Flora Fire was not a cold case. I remember a reporter asking if the cases may be be related? The response was that there was no evidence pointing to that. It was also mentioned that family members were not being cooperative in the Flora investigation.

I cannot find the video I am thinking of, so please consider this MOO.

 

[Eclipsed]

I had my hands out in case they were needed during a slippage or fall or anything sudden. I certainly didn't want to be freefalling while looking through the lens of a camera. I had noticed moss on the bridge. I was not expecting that. The mossy sections were slick. I think the video I took from the end of the bridge looking backward shows some green areas of moss.

I would estimate I could have crossed in maybe 6-7 minutes if doing it hurriedly and without fear. Then shave at least a minute off that for someone younger and with prior experience on the bridge.

I definitely think Bridge Guy had crossed many times. But I don't think that aligns with local necessity. I see no reason why he couldn't have looked for an ideal location -- online or in person -- found that one, and then visited 2-3 times while putting together a plan. If it happened that way I think he would have already been bored on the third day of reconnaissance.

My overall belief is that he had several locations picked out as possibles and toured between them until ideal conditions clicked. Trails are remote by definition. Moyer Gould Woods and Trailhead Park had trails that felt more isolated and spooky than Monon High. I'm actually surprised there have not been more high profile murders on trails. Also at campgrounds.

The end of the bridge is not comparable to the totality or especially the beginning. Not remotely similar. I'm frustrated when that is not fully recognized. But I can understand it because the doomsday views are invariably above or below that initial section. It leaves the impression that the bridge remains that way throughout. That is ridiculous.

I easily could have walked with my hands in my pockets over the final section of the bridge. I could have walked hands in pockets and very rapidly. The gaps are so narrow you don't worry about them anyone. It feels like cupcakes. You are no longer over water. Now there are thin trees on both sides. It feels like a funnel. It is no longer scenic since you can't see the creek. It feels like there is no reason to go slow when the footing is fine and you aren't seeing anything particularly noteworthy anyway.

Over that final 100 feet or so the bridge feels like planks that are attached to the ground. It may not actually be that way if viewed from underneath, but it certainly feels that way.

Abby and Libby would not have been alarmed at Bridge Guy's pace. They would recognize speeding up as perfectly normal at the end of the bridge. The strange aspect would have been someone else on the bridge period. I guarantee that doesn't happen 2% of the time. It would be common courtesy and logical safety to remain off the bridge until another party had completely finished, even if that meant waiting for them to walk all the way back.

If they had seen Bridge Guy previously they could have been thinking this guy is weird and stupid enough to venture out onto the bridge while we're still up here.

Also, this is seldom mentioned but I absolutely guarantee Bridge Guy turned around and checked behind him for at least the first half of the crossing and probably more like 2/3. He can't afford for anyone else to see him out onto the bridge. I think he waited beforehand near the foot of the bridge and timed his entrance to catch Abby and Libby as they finished, and was perfectly willing to abort if either someone showed up behind him, or if Abby and Libby had dashed off into the private yards beyond the bridge.

IMO I think he was on the south side (end) waiting/watching. When they were close enough he started onto the bridge, southside (end), passed them, checked the bridge looking to the northside (start). Then turned, followed & "Guys...down the hill".

 

[JnRyan]

I don't firmly believe that "someone knows". In fact, at this point with almost 50K in tips ANYONE who had a strong enough suspicion - NOT necessarily know - has probably called it in. And if we consider the possibility this person is not in the county, but possibly in Lafayette, Indianapolis or even Chicago, no one around the killer has a clue. He could be in those 50K of tips, but with that many tips it is a needle in a haystack at this point. Three years later, I believe the statement that "someone knows" is blind optimism.

There are many who pay no attention to criminal cases unless it is right in their community. I spoke to someone the recently who had never heard of this case. They pull out their smart phone and after a few minutes they comment there is video, audio and sketches and the crime still isn't solved?

And the warning signs are likely there, but the vast majority of us are not attuned to them. We don't look for them, let alone associate them with a crime. I had to go in with a group of investigators and auditors to address an embezzlement to the entity's leader. This embezzler was not exactly small time having taken between low to mid six figures from the organization in two to three years. When the leader was presented with the evidence, he had some interesting comments. He said he always marveled at how this person could drive such an expensive vehicle with all the bells and whistles on a fraction of the salary that he himself was paid. He also noted that on the rare occasions this person did take off it seemed to be very expensive trips. And this person didn't have anyone assist him in the process as he did it all. All red flags of a person embezzling. They were all there in front of the person in charge and he and others ignored it. Someone outside the organization had even called in a tip that they suspected the embezzler of being a drug dealer due to the person's life style and LE said there was no sign of such activity.

I suspect that when this killer is caught those around him that saw any of the warning signs or resemblance to the sketch are only going to make note of those things in hind sight.

LE just needs that one piece of the puzzle, but after 3 years I don't believe it will be in the form of a tip. This killer has probably offended before, sexual assault, peeping tom, for example, if not murder. The evidence that could tie him to those may be given that much attention at this time. There are thousands of unprocessed rape kits across the country and he may be in one of them. And if that rape happens to be in Lafayette, Indianapolis or even Chicago, LE might take a big step in his direction.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Nope, not better just luckier.

IF he is a SK, who did killings before, then I think, it wasn't only more luck but intelligent planning and rigorous implementation - regrettable to certify that to him. MOO He will bask in it.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I suspect that when this killer is caught those around him that saw any of the warning signs or resemblance to the sketch are only going to make note of those things in hind sight.

I agree, they will notice at the very end of it and only, if they are honest.Until then they won't believe, they have to look at their close surroundings. If the Delphi locals would already be shocked, when the killer is caught, the close ones can't think of him being the one searched for in Delphi, even if the sketch is resembling him at finest. MOO

I hope, LE will get important tips until they tell us, who it is.

 

[Pavelsky]

You would have thought that somebody would have recognized his photo from the clothes he was wearing at the time IMO.

 

[Damarna]

I

I have a question. I wonder if the hat BG is wearing is an old “pilot”, “fourage”, or “overseas” cap.

This...I swear, I see a wedge in the midst of it


And this is an old vintage Bunderswehr pilot cap. I assume discontinued in 1988.

Vintage military hat German air force cap German flight cap Luftwaffe side cap Bunderswehr Luftwaffe 1988 Size 61 Air Force Germany

So the color of the hat looks military khaki to me. The shape is like a pilot cap. The back flap is something the hat on my photo has. I think I see some logo, could it be the old round one from Bundesrepublik?

It that possible that the guy is a navy brat whose parents served in US army stationed in West Germany? Or, if he is older, could he himself have been stationed there in his youth? Or can the guy merely collect old vintage military items?

I can’t unsee a pilot hat.

I see different things. For some reason just now as I looked at the photo again I flashed on him looking down more than I originally envisioned wearing a baseball cap on backwards. Made my mind see a younger person. And of course that's what is stuck in my head now.....

 

[curiousgene]

"I think a cold case is like a sketch. A sketch is not a photograph — it's an idea, it's a rendering," Doug Carter, ISP Superintendent, said. "I think a cold case is when there's absolutely nothing, and that's not the case here."

"I've heard those detectives tell me, 'when we get done, superintendent, we're gonna start all over.' And that's what they've done, and they'll continue to do that".

These words will resonate with everyone here, but this is DC talking about the Flora fire where four children aged 5, 7, 9 and 11 perished. It happened 12 weeks before Abby and Libby, and coincidentally also happened on a Monday.

Neither case has progressed in 3 years and DC still says they’re not cold. It seems as though there may be one or more persons who lives in or frequents Carroll County who has a depraved indifference to human life.

There doesn't appear to be a thread for the Flora fire which is disappointing, but here are links for the first, second and third anniversaries.

One year later: Remembering four sisters killed in Flora house fire

On 2-year anniversary of deadly Flora fire, family honors 4 sisters killed

Three years later: Investigation of Flora Fire that killed four sisters continues

Read about the four girls, they look so adorable, happy kids in all the pictures. I cannot imagine how devastating this is for the mother and the family. It is an unimaginable tragedy and I hope that the person responsible for this is caught and made to pay for it.

 

[Falcon500]

Based on your experience, might the term "interview" include conversation(s) with individuals who have offered any form of assistance with a case?

Might it include follow up discussions with individuals associated with the case?

He may have a weekly update emailed to him from what’s left of his troopers left on the task force. Remember that the Carroll County Sheriffs Dept is the lead agency on this case.

 

[Pavelsky]

I

I see different things. For some reason just now as I looked at the photo again I flashed on him looking down more than I originally envisioned wearing a baseball cap on backwards. Made my mind see a younger person. And of course that's what is stuck in my head now.....

I always thought from the photo that it looked like a hat that had flaps on the side of it

 

[JnRyan]

He may have a weekly update emailed to him from what’s left of his troopers left on the task force. Remember that the Carroll County Sheriffs Dept is the lead agency on this case.

Given the high profile of the case I imagine he has to expect to update or, at least answer questions from, the governor or lieutenant governor. Yeah, a periodic update from Delphi is very likely.

 

[Cutiekitty]

IF he is a SK, who did killings before, then I think, it wasn't only more luck but intelligent planning and rigorous implementation - regrettable to certify that to him. MOO He will bask in it.

I don’t think think BG is a SK and I don’t think this was intelligently planned. If I’m wrong and BG is a serial killer then I’d say it was his first time and he’s been really lucky to have gotten away with it for so long. I just don’t think BG is a criminal mastermind with superior intellect.