GUILTY IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #9 *NO JAIL*

[oviedo]

All very good points Kindred! And I concur.

Has there been any indication of a deadline/timeline for discovery to be presented? I know a trial date... if it comes to that.... has been set for late December of this year.

There should be a trial order if it’s like US cases - with discovery, depositions, witness and exhibits and mediation - but maybe they don’t work like that? Has it even been noticed for trial yet? We got our trial order within 2 weeks of noticing one of our cases
JMO

 

[Bethan]

I’m a little late to this discussion, but this was my thought from the very beginning. Having been on a number of RCCL cruises before, the embarkation process takes a while. On our last cruise my daughter was seasick, so we never left the ship. The kids and I spent time on the enclosed pool deck watching people from the windows. NOT the open windows, because the visibility is just fine from the lower, closed windows

My theory from the beginning is that grandpa saw people walking on the pier, maybe in the process of boarding, and he thought “I have a cute grandkid. I’ll prop her in the window and we’ll wave at all the people.” He strikes me as one of those guys that needs attention, and cute kids are a good prop for that. If he was telling her that they were going to wave to all the people, that could explain the one-handed grip. And then she was gone...

Why have I never thought of this! Lifting the cute grandchild to wave to people! Makes perfect sense!

 

[oviedo]

Having just returned from the last RCCL cruise before the pause on a ship this past Monday- I’ve thought a lot about his actions (I also went on same cruise in December and posted pictures) and I’m still firm in my belief that he has done this type of action before - throwing and catching the baby (not uncommon IMO) perhaps in other venues and I believe he knew that window was open without any doubt and he exposed her to death because he dropped her - I’m glad to see he accepted responsibility for these actions by pleading guilty and there is no doubt he caused her death - IMO.
What I don’t understand is how the civil action can continue now at this point / I would be absolutely mortified if I was the parent who’s own parent caused her death and I would be hunkering down to try and heal not parade around in news shows as recently as they did - I can’t wait until the real video is released- it will be crystal clear and they should be counter sued for RCCLs attorney fees
JMO

 

[L8Shift]

I do believe the RCL will make enhancements to their safety protocol... likely in the form of signs or decals since “ prior notice” has been established. But, IMO, that should be the only result of this litigation n

I do not want to see signs/decals all over a cruise ship reminding me of SA's failure to protect CW.

I hope the end result is the SA family be blacklisted from boarding any future cruise, add the Wiegand family on that list for good measure.

This would actually "Fix the Problem" with the ship.

RCL should be compensated for damages and legal fees.

Just my Opinion..

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I do not want to see signs/decals all over a cruise ship reminding me of SA's failure to protect CW.

I hope the end result is the SA family be blacklisted from boarding any future cruise, add the Wiegand family on that list for good measure.

This would actually "Fix the Problem" with the ship.

RCL should be compensated for damages and legal fees.

Just my Opinion..

 

[neesaki]

I do not want to see signs/decals all over a cruise ship reminding me of SA's failure to protect CW.

I hope the end result is the SA family be blacklisted from boarding any future cruise, add the Wiegand family on that list for good measure.

This would actually "Fix the Problem" with the ship.

RCL should be compensated for damages and legal fees.

Just my Opinion..

Good post, agree 100%.

 

[neesaki]

I’m a little late to this discussion, but this was my thought from the very beginning. Having been on a number of RCCL cruises before, the embarkation process takes a while. On our last cruise my daughter was seasick, so we never left the ship. The kids and I spent time on the enclosed pool deck watching people from the windows. NOT the open windows, because the visibility is just fine from the lower, closed windows

My theory from the beginning is that grandpa saw people walking on the pier, maybe in the process of boarding, and he thought “I have a cute grandkid. I’ll prop her in the window and we’ll wave at all the people.” He strikes me as one of those guys that needs attention, and cute kids are a good prop for that. If he was telling her that they were going to wave to all the people, that could explain the one-handed grip. And then she was gone...

I want to thank you for your thoughtful post, and for your input on the cruise ship experience. But I have to disagree with his purpose being to prop her in the window to wave at all the people. For one thing, this is a 52 or so year old man / step grandfather, not an impulsive young immature teen, or twenty something or even 30 something y/o male who are still in that “invincible” stage.

If a man his age didn’t know better than to do something that beyond insanely stupid / reckless /careless with an 18 month old baby, then IMO, there’s something seriously wrong with his brain. As in cognitively and intellectually. Yet if that were the case, doesn’t it seem that the family and their attorney would have come forth with that information at some point during their multi media tour? I mean, what better excuse, the man is intellectually handicapped. But no, we’ve heard nothing from them indicating this. So apparently that’s not the case.

His actions were far, far beyond just being reckless and careless. Which is why I personally have a very hard time believing that what he did was as simple as an innocent accident. And why I have to lean towards his actions very possibly being purposeful in causing little Chloe’s death. Think about it, his actions were not those of a caring grandparent watching over and being protective of a beloved grandchild. Not even close!

Yet the parents are suing the cruise line. Even while they know the truth, you know they absolutely know the truth. Yet they’re still suing the cruise line. Unbelievable. Tells me everything I need to know. Jmo

 

[Seattle1]

Is the civil suit seriously asking for Chloe's future earnings? WTF? How does KSW thinks she would be legally entitled to any income Chloe may have earned in her lifetime if she had lived? How is Chloe's future income related to the reason they filed the lawsuit? you know to ensure the cruise line protects it passengers from the dangers of open windows?
In the press conference where they just had to have it televised to the public that they filed a lawsuit against RCCL, KSW said that she didn't want Chloe's name or memory to be linked to a lawsuit because when you Google Chloe's name it mentions lawsuit. THEY are the ones that filed the lawsuit that Chloe's name would be forever linked to.
I wish that an FBI profiler would do an assessment this KSW, SA and AW I would love to hear a professional assessment on the actions that these people took from the moment they set foot on the cruise.

A wrongful death civil lawsuit is a very special type of suit that was actually derived from a personal injury suit that the true, injured party could file (i.e., Chloe) had they survived.

Essentially, every state has a provision where only certain survivors of the decedent (defined by each state) can file a wrongful death lawsuit. These suits were basically fashioned as if to substitute a certain survivor for the decedent.

More important here is the limitations on what the survivor of the decedent can actually claim in a wrongful death lawsuit: generally you will only see a claim for medical expense, funeral and burial expense, and the decedent's lost wages. In other words, the claim for Chloe's lost wages to retirement is the law.

In some states, had Chloe lived for any period of time after hitting the pavement-- they may have been able to make a claim for the injured person's mental and physical pain and suffering. (Maybe they will claim for the seconds Chloe was in the air).

A few states also allow claims for “loss of consortium,” where a spouse or immediate family members are deprived of the deceased’s love and companionship.

Seeing this question (and outrage over Chloe's wages) repeatedly, I'm surprised nobody looked this up already! As I said, the law surrounding wrongful death claims is very limited.

MOO

 

[neesaki]

A wrongful death civil lawsuit is a very special type of suit that was actually derived from a personal injury suit that the true, injured party could file (i.e., Chloe) had they survived.

Essentially, every state has a provision where only certain survivors of the decedent (defined by each state) can file a wrongful death lawsuit. These suits were basically fashioned as if to substitute a certain survivor for the decedent.

More important here is the limitations on what the survivor of the decedent can actually claim in a wrongful death lawsuit: generally you will only see a claim for medical expense, funeral and burial expense, and the decedent's lost wages. In other words, the claim for Chloe's lost wages to retirement is the law.

In some states, had Chloe lived for any period of time after hitting the pavement-- they may have been able to make a claim for the injured person's mental and physical pain and suffering. (Maybe they will claim for the seconds Chloe was in the air).

A few states also allow claims for “loss of consortium,” where a spouse or immediate family members are deprived of the deceased’s love and companionship.

Seeing this question (and outrage over Chloe's wages) repeatedly, I'm surprised nobody looked this up already! As I said, the law surrounding wrongful death claims is very limited.

MOO

Thank you very much for the clarification on this regarding wrongful death suits, Seattle. It’s very helpful, especially for those like me who have never worked in the legal field.

I think the outrage you’re witnessing here has to do with the fact that the grandfather, SA, is the one who we all realize is the one and only cause of the death of Chloe. I realize it is possibly perceived as a purely emotion based reaction, but IMO, I believe it’s more than that. I think for the most part it’s really based on what we have all seen and witnessed via the video, and therefore what we consider to be the facts of this case.

Anyone who disagrees please feel free to do so, this is all my own thoughts and opinion.

 

[Seattle1]

Thank you very much for the clarification on this regarding wrongful death suits, Seattle. It’s very helpful, especially for those like me who have never worked in the legal field.

I think the outrage you’re witnessing here has to do with the fact that the grandfather, SA, is the one who we all realize is the one and only cause of the death of Chloe. I realize it is possibly perceived as a purely emotion based reaction, but IMO, I believe it’s more than that. I think for the most part it’s really based on what we have all seen and witnessed via the video, and therefore what we consider to be the facts of this case.

Anyone who disagrees please feel free to do so, this is all my own thoughts and opinion.

You're welcome @ neesaki.

No disagreement from me about SA's negligence. He has a very long public record of disregard for the safety of himself and others. Had SA not been on the ship, Chloe would be looking forward to an upcoming Easter egg hunt. MOO

 

[Mommazz4]

A wrongful death civil lawsuit is a very special type of suit that was actually derived from a personal injury suit that the true, injured party could file (i.e., Chloe) had they survived.

Essentially, every state has a provision where only certain survivors of the decedent (defined by each state) can file a wrongful death lawsuit. These suits were basically fashioned as if to substitute a certain survivor for the decedent.

More important here is the limitations on what the survivor of the decedent can actually claim in a wrongful death lawsuit: generally you will only see a claim for medical expense, funeral and burial expense, and the decedent's lost wages. In other words, the claim for Chloe's lost wages to retirement is the law.

In some states, had Chloe lived for any period of time after hitting the pavement-- they may have been able to make a claim for the injured person's mental and physical pain and suffering. (Maybe they will claim for the seconds Chloe was in the air).

A few states also allow claims for “loss of consortium,” where a spouse or immediate family members are deprived of the deceased’s love and companionship.

Seeing this question (and outrage over Chloe's wages) repeatedly, I'm surprised nobody looked this up already! As I said, the law surrounding wrongful death claims is very limited.

MOO

Thank you for clarifying so much.
I think my outrage is that they hired an attorney to file a lawsuit almost immediately after the death of their daughter. I believe quite a few people seem think that there actions have been questionable
They say they couldn't deal with meeting with the investigators after the accident because they were too distraught, they ignored a subpoena to meet with the law enforcement but they were able to find and hire an attorney for a civil suit before they left Puerto rico, before they had a funeral for their daughter. It's just a heartbreaking story and they expected and had the public's support until they started doing interviews where it seemed they were focused on just a lawsuit and not acknowledging the true party that was responsible for the death of their daughter. I dont know why this story strikes such a chord in my heart but it does.
Thanks again for your response

 

[Mommazz4]

Thank you very much for the clarification on this regarding wrongful death suits, Seattle. It’s very helpful, especially for those like me who have never worked in the legal field.

I think the outrage you’re witnessing here has to do with the fact that the grandfather, SA, is the one who we all realize is the one and only cause of the death of Chloe. I realize it is possibly perceived as a purely emotion based reaction, but IMO, I believe it’s more than that. I think for the most part it’s really based on what we have all seen and witnessed via the video, and therefore what we consider to be the facts of this case.

Anyone who disagrees please feel free to do so, this is all my own thoughts and opinion.

I completely agree with your sentiments.

 

[Indy_ar]

There should be a trial order if it’s like US cases - with discovery, depositions, witness and exhibits and mediation - but maybe they don’t work like that? Has it even been noticed for trial yet? We got our trial order within 2 weeks of noticing one of our cases
JMO

It is in the US just saying

 

[shood77]

But I have to disagree with his purpose being to prop her in the window to wave at all the people. For one thing, this is a 52 or so year old man / step grandfather, not an impulsive young immature teen, or twenty something or even 30 something y/o male who are still in that “invincible” stage.

I have to disagree on the age factor - recklessness knows no age limit. I have followed this case from the beginning, mostly on social media. Around the time that this first happened, someone posted a photo they took from a different cruise, only a few weeks after Chloe’s death. The photograph was of a much older man holding a baby (less than a year old), and the baby had been sat on top of the railing on the top deck where there are no windows whatsoever. The individual taking the picture said that he didn’t say anything while the child was on the rail, as he was afraid to startle the man and cause him to drop the baby. All around that man were deck chairs that he could have easily tripped on and caused a horrific incident. People assume that bad things won’t happen to them, and it causes them to act recklessly sometimes. More often than not, no one is injured or killed. Poor Chloe was not so fortunate, and Anello should pay dearly for that.

 

[shood77]

I found the Facebook post. It was dated in August 2019.

 

[neesaki]

I have to disagree on the age factor - recklessness knows no age limit. I have followed this case from the beginning, mostly on social media. Around the time that this first happened, someone posted a photo they took from a different cruise, only a few weeks after Chloe’s death. The photograph was of a much older man holding a baby (less than a year old), and the baby had been sat on top of the railing on the top deck where there are no windows whatsoever. The individual taking the picture said that he didn’t say anything while the child was on the rail, as he was afraid to startle the man and cause him to drop the baby. All around that man were deck chairs that he could have easily tripped on and caused a horrific incident. People assume that bad things won’t happen to them, and it causes them to act recklessly sometimes. More often than not, no one is injured or killed. Poor Chloe was not so fortunate, and Anello should pay dearly for that.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, but see that you're a new poster. So, maybe you're a bit confused about the case?
I sincerely hope you're not trying to justify child abuse, endangerment, and neglect. None of which equal an "accident". I have to question why you would be doing that, and am interested to hear your explanation.

Also, nothing about this case has anything whatsoever to do with chairs that are there for people to sit on.

Please realize, that most of us are here because we care, and are quite passionate about finding justice for Chloe. JMO

 

[shood77]

I'm not quite sure what you're saying, but see that you're a new poster. So, maybe you're a bit confused about the case?
I sincerely hope you're not trying to justify child abuse, endangerment, and neglect. None of which equal an "accident". I have to question why you would be doing that, and am interested to hear your explanation.

Also, nothing about this case has anything whatsoever to do with chairs that are there for people to sit on.

Please realize, that most of us are here because we care, and are quite passionate about finding justice for Chloe. JMO

There is nothing in any of my posts that would suggest that I am justifying neglect or abuse. I am stating my opinion based on situations and stories I have seen. I interpreted your original response as stating that reckless behavior is limited to younger generations, which I respectively disagree with. The purpose of my last post is to show that not even one month after Chloes death, a similar act happened on a cruise ship, however that baby was not dropped. To me, this demonstrates that no matter what safety measures the Wiegand family feels is lacking in RCCL ships, it will not impact the sheer stupidity of people, young and old. SA SHOULD have had enough common sense to not hold CW out of a window, but he did. This was his fault, and justice will never be served IMO.

BTW, I may be a new poster, but I have been following this case since July. I joined this site primarily because of this case, and to keep up on other recent cases. I am a mother of small children, and this case horrified me. To me, this entire incident happened because of the neglectful actions of all of the adults on this trip. All I did was post my opinion on what MAY have been his intent when he put CW out the window. My follow up post was just to show that people of all ages can and do make appallingly bad decisions. We just only hear about the ones with tragic outcomes.

 

[neesaki]

There is nothing in any of my posts that would suggest that I am justifying neglect or abuse. I am stating my opinion based on situations and stories I have seen. I interpreted your original response as stating that reckless behavior is limited to younger generations, which I respectively disagree with. The purpose of my last post is to show that not even one month after Chloes death, a similar act happened on a cruise ship, however that baby was not dropped. To me, this demonstrates that no matter what safety measures the Wiegand family feels is lacking in RCCL ships, it will not impact the sheer stupidity of people, young and old. SA SHOULD have had enough common sense to not hold CW out of a window, but he did. This was his fault, and justice will never be served IMO.

BTW, I may be a new poster, but I have been following this case since July. I joined this site primarily because of this case, and to keep up on other recent cases. I am a mother of small children, and this case horrified me. To me, this entire incident happened because of the neglectful actions of all of the adults on this trip. All I did was post my opinion on what MAY have been his intent when he put CW out the window. My follow up post was just to show that people of all ages can and do make appallingly bad decisions. We just only hear about the ones with tragic outcomes.

I was quite tired when I read your post so my apologies if I misinterpreted your point.
I do agree with you on the bolded, that leaving Chloe in his care was bad judgment all around, unless it was planned that way which some of us believe is very possible.

 

[HRH Phoebe Cat]

@shood77 , welcome to WS and thank you. It is too sad, indeed, that complete strangers on the internet appear to be more vested in little Chloe’s interests than her own blood kin.

 

[HRH Phoebe Cat]

@neesaki and everyone else,

May I be so bold as to suggest a group hug for everyone mourning little Chloe and all the family propaganda and, yet, also with the current health crisis, stressing?

xoxo

PS I still believe he knew exactly what he was doing...JMHO of course.