Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[minazoe]

so much information is in the crime scene, LE knows all his deeds and doings.
they know his sad little mental problems and what he's all about.

I wish we knew too. I wish we knew if he left things there..

the fact that they won't say tells me that maybe the evidence is so specific
and of such a small amount that they need the killer to concur their findings or they have no case.

An outdoor crime scene is very difficult..and if he was there all night he could set it up just the way he wanted..likely destroying the actual crime scene and displaying only that which he wished LE to see.

If he did as I suspect and carefully destroyed evidence. if he posed the bodies and
scattered belongings , piled leaves, left knots, ..removed clothes and threw them in the creek where DNA would be destroyed or lost. ..

he's really done a lot of work then , hasn't he? Thats why I think he came back
that night.

huge pieces missing. the people of Delphi? they don't even know. mOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

New here. couple thoughts that may have been discussed already-
From observing other cases, I believe the police know every single thing on the girls phone- even if apps or messages were deleted. Which lowers the odds of the catfish theory in my opinion.

Respectfully snipped for focus. For those of you sick of my expounding on the "catfish" theory, please scroll and roll!

Here's the thing - kids are devious, and expert at covering their tracks. Because they know their adults will monitor their social media activities, they will often communicate using fake accounts and not using their own devices. (Think school or library computers, or some other public access device).

Pedos are often, very often member of the "dark web" where they use an anonymizing browser that routes their interactions through a series of proxy servers operated by thousands of like-minded volunteers around the globe, which renders their IP address unidentifiable and untraceable.......at the moment. However, the good guys have been working on this problem, and I expect we'll be able to hunt these creeps down soon. Just not enough "good guys" to go around, and funding for these efforts is never enough.

So, my point is that the Loser was likely creeping around on the dark net, and even if they did find catfish conversations, they've likely been having to follow the breadcrumbs on a long and twisted cyber journey. But....there are breakthroughs due to technology everyday, and people talk.....so not giving up on hearing of an arrest.

My usual 3 cents worth, all amateur opinion and speculation.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Duplicate

 

[rosesfromangels]

This might be controversial but I feel that without a big push this case will become cold. LE need to release a bit more information, get it out there in the press and keep the interest going. They said amateur sleuthing doesn't help, too many tips, too much speculation. Then say they need help from the public in identifying this killer. They can't have it both ways.

I have no doubt BG has killed before and possibly since. He is so confident as he approached the girls he even sounded like their compliance was simply a formality. And so it proved. I believe him to be a sadistic killer, a SA may not even be his kick, control and cruelty is his thing. If not adults or children then pets or other animals.

There needs to be some information on the cause of death. Strangulation, stabbing? These details matter and I don't think it would weaken LE's case when it comes to court. They don't have to tell us if he used a special knot, if it was rope or wire or if it was a certain kind of knife but these details matter in identifying this guy.

It's how he gets off, and that will spill over into his public life. There was a rapist who put a pillow case over his victims heads when he carried out his attacks. That information helped his partner, who suspected his guilt, identify him - he did it to her every time they, er ' had union'. Made love, made out doesn't cover this in my book, this was more about control and subjugation.

Robert Ives says the crime scent was odd, there were 'unusual facts', there were 2 or 3 signatures. Were they posed or left where they fell, dressed or undressed, was there semen or not. Ugh I hate to think like this but if you want to identify someone there has to be enough information to do so. I simply don't accept that some additional information may weaken their case as and when BG comes to court. No point in having a case thats a slam dunk if you don't have a suspect in the dock. MOO

You raise some intriguing points.
We all have "signature" things we do. Apparently I have a unique signature in the say I eat things. Until someone pointed it out, I thought everyone ate that way and I never noticed my unique signature. (I eat in meticulous and orderly patterns).
I thought this was "ladylike" behavior, but apparently it looks a bit rainman. : \

Anyway....without getting two graphic, lets draw an unpleasant comparison that might make sense here. What if he left the two children appearing in a similar (and unconventional) manner to deer that he has hunted, or something similar? In other words displayed the dead deer in a revolting or inappropriate manner that would have repulsed even the most callous hunting buddy?

So yes, your point is well taken. His killing style could no doubt trigger a memory of something that aligns in other aspects of his life.

Good post MajorTom.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Cryptic]

Here's the thing - kids are devious, and expert at covering their tracks.

Pedos are often, very often member of the "dark web" where they use an anonymizing browser that routes their interactions through a series of proxy servers

Good points.

It is probably also worth noting that computer knowledge is far more widely distributed today then in the past.

My guess is that teens today do not need to be the stereotypical computer hacking youth to make tracing communication hard, or perhaps very hard for small town police departments.

Likewise, pedos today probably don't need degrees in computer science to hinder FBI tracing attempts. Rather, the knowledge and the infrastructure could well be accessible for anyone with moderate skills.

As side note, I once read a book by an FBI agent detailing a children investigation over 20 years ago. He related that only one member of the circle had relatively sophisticated tech knowledge and would warn members about security lapses.

That single member made the FBI investigation that much harder. I bet today, nearly all child *advertiser censored* traders use easily accessible, yet sophisticated concealing techniques. This might even severely limit, or even prevent FBI level tracing.

 

[TheVisual]

Just wondering out loud, If BG took a souvenir, what if he gave it to his significant other so that he could see it every day as a reminder. My POI gave a ring to his significant other,not new (he never buys her anything, ever). Could this be one of the girl's?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Just wondering out loud, If BG took a souvenir, what if he gave it to his significant other so that he could see it every day as a reminder. My POI gave a ring to his significant other,not new (he never buys her anything, ever). Could this be one of the girl's?

If you think you have a legitimate tip, please call it in. Give a thorough description of the ring, and try to get a photo of it without endangering yourself. Anything is possible.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[TheVisual]

If you think you have a legitimate tip, please call it in. Give a thorough description of the ring, and try to get a photo of it without endangering yourself. Anything is possible.

amateur opinion and speculation

I have turned him about 2 weeks after it happened and he has been contacted and mouth swabbed. Don't know if they followed up on him. His dna would not be in CODIS even though he has been in trouble in the past.

 

[Ozoner]

I have turned him about 2 weeks after it happened and he has been contacted and mouth swabbed. Don't know if they followed up on him. His dna would not be in CODIS even though he has been in trouble in the past.

How old is your POI?

 

[TheVisual]

How old is your POI?

61, was 58 then

 

[Ozoner]

61, was 58 then

Well, that matches my initial thoughts on BG's age way back when, but it's pretty far off from LE's current estimate.

 

[Dotrat]

If you think you have a legitimate tip, please call it in. Give a thorough description of the ring, and try to get a photo of it without endangering yourself. Anything is possible.

amateur opinion and speculation

I believe we can NOT discuss tips sent, would hate to have the thread shut down.

Maybe message Tricia for clarification

 

[Imvp2]

This piece of scum needs to be found.
Maybe they need fresh eyes on all of the info LE has on the case looking back and forward on people, statements, etc

 

[mom2chloe]

I’m thinking a firefighter maybe even a volunteer. IMO I know I have too much time on my hands in the current situation but might explain the Flora fire also. I cannot get this case out of my head and heart!

 

[Charlot123]

Perhaps BG was entering the picture and Libby took a pic of Abby for demonstrating, what they were allegedly doing there on the MHB? As I said hundred times already (MOO): Abby isn't looking like a girl, which is happy to have a nice photo done of her. Quite the contrary, I think.

I think it is her first time on the bridge, and she might be scared as the wooden planks are old.

 

[Charlot123]

yes I too feel he may have a repetitive fantasy of trapping someone on the bridge!
mOO

Then we should look at bridge hunters site. He should be there. He has to look through many bridges during his daydreaming.

 

[Charlot123]

so much information is in the crime scene, LE knows all his deeds and doings.
they know his sad little mental problems and what he's all about.

I wish we knew too. I wish we knew if he left things there..

the fact that they won't say tells me that maybe the evidence is so specific
and of such a small amount that they need the killer to concur their findings or they have no case.

An outdoor crime scene is very difficult..and if he was there all night he could set it up just the way he wanted..likely destroying the actual crime scene and displaying only that which he wished LE to see.

If he did as I suspect and carefully destroyed evidence. if he posed the bodies and
scattered belongings , piled leaves, left knots, ..removed clothes and threw them in the creek where DNA would be destroyed or lost. ..

he's really done a lot of work then , hasn't he? Thats why I think he came back
that night.

huge pieces missing. the people of Delphi? they don't even know. mOO

Don’t you think he left too many signatures? Three?

I wonder if one of them was related to Libby’s picture on her (now memorial FB) - an ocean and a heart in the sand? It was posted by her a few years before the death. I noticed it and remembered. It looks nice.

I wonder if there was a heart next to the creek bank? If it is a sandy bank, in the sand, if not, maybe made out of a twig? If there is something like it, it would mean the person crawled over her FB a few years before.

Another version - if it is a SK - is that he leaves something from the previous killing site in Delphi, and takes something from the girls to leave on the next site. So if there is something from the prior site, it could connect two unrelated cases.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe do an experiment:

Show a preferably male blue collar trade, farmer, rancher type friend or relative a googled picture of a railroad embankment. Then ask him or how they would tell somebody to go from point 'a' to point 'b'.

Do the same for a preferably white collar male friend or relative. The income of the people does not matter. Blue collar trades can pay more than a certain number of white collar positions. Rather,what matters is their employment back ground.

Note what terms the individuals use. Do some individuals grasp for words? Do others know specialized words (either formal or slang)?

Here are the results of my experiment. I need to ask more males, but the girls were available:

- Me (white collar now, blue collar in the past): Would use 'embankment' today. Would have used either 'embankment' or 'grade' in the past.

- Older daughter: (White Collar): Would use 'down there'. Would not use 'hill' as she views hills as natural. Never heard other terms.

- Wife (white collar /blue collar origins): Would use 'hill' for a high embankment. 'Down there' for a low one. May of heard specialized terms from male blue collar relatives, but can't remember them.

I am a foreigner, but to me an embankment is somewhat more ornate. I mean, it separates the bank from the water, it is the place where people either walk or stroll, a quay, a seafront. Some banisters, granite.

A hill and a mound is something that could be an embankment, but less work and investment.

 

[Charlot123]

New here.

couple thoughts that may have been discussed already-

From observing other cases, I believe the police know every single thing on the girls phone- even if apps or messages were deleted. Which lowers the odds of the catfish theory in my opinion.

I think the conference where Carter dramatically calls out BG, he did so purposefully so the room can be scanned by a professional to observe everyone’s behavior- thats why they had everyone sign in, I think his words were very purposeful and said to incite a response.

I don’t think they know much about what the man looks like. Personally his voice, clothing choices and walk sound more mature. I’d say 35-60. But looks younger.

I think the odds of it being a sexual crime are 50/50. Lately I feel if it was sexual in nature BG would have killed again soon after. So now I feel it was more of a hatred towards females or younger girls and a power thing(conference) Probably had a bad relationship with mom growing up, or sisters, or some traumatic childhood romantic rejection. He’s probably sensitive to young girls making fun of him, probably has a weird looking face. Probably a loner, Passionate and a romantic- violent when rejected. He can’t deal with how females have treated him and feels he deserves better. I think he grew up in the area, knows the trails, bridge, creek (fishing with fam), his parents likely have passed or are old and religious(not online)(not In area) I assume he visited the area to live out the fantasy of trapping someone on the bridge- OR the girls saw him and we’re audibly creeped out- and it angered him- saw it as an ideal moment to strike.

He probably doesn’t like to stand out, views himself as a good person, but felt justified in what he did. I assume he’s smart and only acted out his fantasy because he was about to take off for a long trip, job, or enroll into army? (If younger) this was the only day he could act on his fantasy- so he went to the perfect kill spot he had imagined before. Then took off to wherever he was off too, and probably hasn’t returned since. I think he likely kept one memento but got rid of everything else, especially clothes.

I don’t think there was a lot of blood present at crime scene- because it would make escaping more complicated for him. I’d say it was likely strangulation or purposefully drowning them in creek.

these are just my amateur opinion^ Sorry it’s so long lol

Bolded by me.

I wonder if in 2017 they had memory sticks for iPhones? When I clean mine, I’d still transfer anything onto a memory stick. (And then maybe do a factory reset, I didn’t do it on an iPhone, but I could one day as the memory is full).

If these memory sticks were around in 2017, and I bet they were, I wonder if Libby did the same before resetting the phone? And where is it now?

 

[Charlot123]

You may well be the only person that thinks that this is weighing heavily on him.
-
I think he savors the memory and probably becomes sexually aroused every time he thinks about it.
-
He is exceedingly pleased with himself for having gotten away with it so far.

There is something that doesn’t fit. What I feel about this crime looks preplanned. And I think BG is much older than the local youths.

I have a feeling he is angry, but not all the time. He can get deadly if he is angry, but the real rage happens when he feels himself, or someone dear to him, is under attack.

I always imagine a father protecting his child who might be accused of statutory rape or molestation. Or an adult protecting own reputation.

This is why I think it is weighing heavily. It is something he felt he had to do, but maybe did not enjoy doing.

I think the signatures are red herrings.