Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #42

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes. Like Iran, maybe. There the death toll is probably in the thousands. They’re digging mass graves.
The coronavirus has caused a full breakdown in Iran, with an unknown death toll, infected leaders, and massive burial pits visible from space

Just looking at how many of their politicians have it is an indication that it’s vastly higher than reported.
Iran Has Far More Coronavirus Cases Than It Is Letting On

But just our population being high means we will have higher deaths. Because we have more people.

The fact is we, like Italy, Spain, the UK and Iran, failed to get ahead of this thing in a timely manner. We could have. But did not. Japan and South Korea should’ve been our models.

This will cost us in so many ways. The peak is expected to be around May.

Exactly as always.

We have a larger population than many of these countries plus we will windup testing many more people, imo.

Jmho

 

[bluedivergirl]

Now i am curious what you would suggest

Start with a Gin and Tonic. Quinine.

 

[Yesiamapirate]

Cough: dry cough - myDr.com.au
Comprehensive article on what it could be and how to deal with it.
Before we were talking about (I think Trudie's link) about humidity, I read another article that recommends 40-50% humidity. Amazon has low cost thermometers

Could be dry air, as others have said. Are you taking any decongestants? I have a dry cough too, but that's become normal for me (had it since December, worsened in January, is slightly worse now). It's worse at night.

I spent the night researching what's known about the time between exposure and first symptom. Data is sketchy. Most studies (where the transmission date is known because it came from a specific person) say 6-10 days, up to 14-18 days. It also looks like people who have been exposed do not shed significant amounts of virus until about 4-6 days in.

Then once symptoms start, it's 2-28 days of symptoms, during which the person is contagious. Most people are contagious for 10 days after symptoms start, and not a lot is known about what happens next (but a month out, most people no longer have active viral shedding - just RNA fragments). That one month data is extremely conservative, some studies seem to show that most people stop shedding a transmissible form of the disease about 48-72 hours after their fever ends.

20-50% of people never have symptoms but are still transmitting for some unknown period of time, thought to be around 2-3 weeks, but clearly much less for some people.

It's all this uncertainty that's so hard.

If you have cough suppressant (dextromethorphan), there are quite a few recommendations that you go ahead and take it, to avoid irritation to your respiratory tract. I donno, not a medical doctor, am sitting here looking at my bottle of it right now. Guess I'll try it. Apparently I cough in my sleep, so constantly irritating my windpipe and bronchial tubes.

Again I appreciate the resources you share. I did take some Benadryl last night and it took care of the cough. It did some back today.

Hard to say what it is. It is spring in MI and pollen is usually higher this time of year. So...For us:

allergies
Exposure to cleaning chemicals
Acid reflux
Dry air
most likely not Covid given my isolation. Only place it cooks come from was 14 days ago picking up groceries on the curb and signing or my groceries themselves. They were sanitized.

 

[IceIce9]

Regarding non-essential businesses:

Before the clinic where I was working closed, one of my last patients was complaining that the plant where he worked should be shut down. It is an assembly-line plant where workers stand very close together to assemble.

The owner of the plant is claiming they are essential workers because the plant makes mixers. The owner communicated to the employees that the mixers manufactured there are essential because if people can’t find bread to purchase they will need to bake their own bread, and they will need to purchase mixers to make bread.

 

[10ofRods]

2 things.

We were talking about smoking a while back. Apparently, driving is my big trigger. Ive been laid off a couple of weeks now. Last night before bed, I realized I had smoked a grand total of 7 cigarettes all day. I had never put that one together. I drive from account to account. Yesterday, we got extended to the end of April. Goodness. I may be a non smoker by then.

I had to make a walmart run today for my mother. 27 minutes in and out which included a stop by the pharmacy, near jogging pace. There were plenty of cars out, but the store wasnt bad at all. No face mask, no scarf. If anyone got too close I just pulled my hoodie up to my eyes.

This is one of the most awesome comments I've read here. I like your hoodie method (wish more people would think to sue it). But the part about smoking is great. I'm going to share it with lots of people. 7 cigarettes a day is not many at all, and your lungs should start to respond positively. It is definitely the time to go ahead and quit. Many find that going to 2 cigarettes a day is the next step. Any reduction is great.

 

[gitana1]

Sounds right to me. I dislike the fact that we’re being spoon fed disaster news daily about this virus. Yes it’s dangerous. Yes it could have been foreseen. Maybe. But hindsight is always 20/20.
With about 300 million people in the USA as of April 1, 2020, 100,000 deaths is .03% of the population. Some census site I looked at this am.
But stay safe. 6 feet is good. Better yet, stay home.

Well, for those of us following this thread since mid-January, no. Everything we needed to know was known by then. Government officials, including health departments, have a duty to know more about public safety and health than websleuthers, IMO.

The alarm was sounded a long time ago. The main whistle blower worked super hard starting in December trying to warn the world. But few listened. And not just us. Same with Italy. The UK. Spain. Iran.

I think the only ones who did very well are Singapore and South Korea.

As to being spoon fed disaster news, an easy fix is avoiding news. That’s what I’ve been trying to do.

However, apparently this disaster news is still necessary for many to hear. Because I think the problem is that people can’t be trusted to follow the rules. And if things are minimized by government, they don’t understand why those rules are so crucial.

For example, I saw about 15 people playing soccer at a school near my house a couple days ago. When I ride my bike I see far too many neighbors standing within four feet or so of one another. I saw a group of about 7 ladies going on a walk together. Looked like a walking group.

My ex is working at a library and sees fellow employees wearing gloves but standing right next to each other, using a shared computer and then constantly touching their faces with those gloves hands. Which defeats the purpose of the gloves.

There’s too much of that continuing to go on and too much of that which we should’ve prevented with education and sounding the alarm a lot sooner.

I was shocked by mid-February to see that no one in court seemed to be taking this seriously. Everyone packed together in line to check in to the departments. People coughing without covering. Not hard but still. No hand sanitizer in site. The clerk taking papers from everyone without wearing gloves.

Meanwhile I was taking the stairs, making sure my clients weren’t sick and waiting until everyone had checked in before going into the department. All because of wensleuths. Because I had been reading here and people like @Henry2326 educated me by spoon feeding me disaster news.

Because I was not understanding this at first.

 

[gitana1]

I would hope, and perhaps spraying them with Lysol?
A friend that owns a biker shop gave me a box of the large bandanas, all individually wrapped! I opened the box to discover they are all Rebel flag design. So anyone in KY that sees a tall skinny blonde hiding behind the Rebel flag, don’t shoot.

If the virus only lasts 3 days on a surface, isn’t just hanging it up enough?

 

[10ofRods]

Start with a Gin and Tonic. Quinine.

This is what I'm doing, ha. In grad school, many years ago, when heading out to malaria territory, all my profs mentioned tonic (and gin - they apparently had a belief in juniper berries - that belief that juniper berries protect against virus is ancient).

In India, Brits swore by the combination to combat the many new-to-them viruses.

My DH ordered a half case of my favorite French gin for my birthday (I have to ration it, of course). But quinine has long been thought to help. It doesn't pass the tests of the FDA because it certainly doesn't protect anywhere close to 99% or 90% of people. But if it protects a few, that's great. No harm in it. (Well, if you have certain issues, particularly with bladder or digestion, and you're sensitive to tonic - don't drink it!)

 

[Trudie]

Eight employees at Annie Gunn's in Chesterfield have tested positive for COVID-19, the restaurant announced Monday.

Google Streetview
The restaurant has been closed since March 19 and management said none of the employees reported or experienced symptoms before then.

The restaurant said "extensive professional disinfecting" is being done.
Annie Gunn's using 'extensive professional disinfecting' after 8 employees test positive for COVID-19

Quoting myself....
How many did these 8 infect?

 

[tresir2012]

Man jailed after hospital visit social media boast

This guy was wandering around a hospital with no reason so is now in jail for 12 days after posting about it on Social Media.

 

[Trudie]

If the virus only lasts 3 days on a surface, isn’t just hanging it up enough?

Idk. So much discrepancy in reports.
Even with statistics, if one looks hard he can find less dire news than some msm reports.

 

[Boston Corbett]

Ron DeSantis quietly signed second executive order targeting local coronavirus restrictions

Hours after Gov. Ron DeSantis issued a statewide stay-at-home order Wednesday, he quietly signed a second order to override restrictions put in place by local governments to halt the spread of coronavirus.

The second order states that new state guidelines that take effect Friday morning “shall supersede any conflicting official action or order issued by local officials in response to COVID-19.” In other words, local governments cannot place any limitations that would be more strict than the statewide guidelines.

Locally, it means Hillsborough County cannot mandate churches close their doors, a rule that drew national attention after a Tampa megachurch held two Sunday services, leading to the arrest of the pastor.
(more)​

tampabay.com

 

[Kadoober]

Oregon veteran, 104, could be oldest coronavirus survivor

Oregon veteran, 104, could be oldest coronavirus survivor

Always like reading the good stories.

I needed this today, tysm! My 99 year old grandmother tested positive yesterday. It's terrifying. Though I told my mom, that if there is any 99 year old that can beat this, it's her!

 

[10ofRods]

If the virus only lasts 3 days on a surface, isn’t just hanging it up enough?

Yes - if that's how long it lasts. I spent last night reading up on surface persistence and 72 hours really does seem like enough (unless the virus is already airborn in the room - which means you already have it and just don't know it yet). It's clear that 24 hours is not enough if the viral load on the mask is fairly high. It needs humidity too, so a drier place would probably only require 24 hours.

Tossing them in the drier on low might work too. No one knows. They weren't designed to be reused - but if I had a cotton mask, I'd use the drier for sure. No way CoVid19 can survive on its own outside a water molecule for very long. Probably only 3 hours.

I'm guessing that even metal surfaces can't host it when they are very dry. For many regions, though, humidity is high enough that almost everything has a few water molecules on it.

I'm thinking that the inside of my car would be my go-to place. We have a humidity meter, I already know that my car is hot and dry inside, as it is parked in the sun.

 

[NuttMegg]

Some Americans could wait 20 weeks to receive stimulus checks, IRS tells House Democrats - CNNPolitics
Washington (CNN)Americans likely won't begin to see direct payments from the coronavirus stimulus bill until at least April 13 and it could take 20 weeks for all the checks to be mailed, Trump administration officials told lawmakers, according to a House Democratic memo obtained by CNN.

The timeline means tens of millions of Americans will have to wait to get badly needed assistance, despite repeated suggestions from Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin that the money would go out as soon as April 6. He said this past Sunday after passage of the $2.2 trillion stimulus bill that payments would not go out until mid-April.
CNN reported in March that former IRS officials said the wait would likely be weeks or months.
----------------------------------
So the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing re using SS 1099s? The government already has the bank routing info for most SS recipients, as we all discussed last night.
So as recently as, er, today, no one knows what's going on.

 

[MimosaMornings]

New Orleans Mardi Gras should have been canceled.

And all the other cities that had large crowds for Mardi Gras weekends.
(Pensacola, Galveston, etc)

 

[Really?]

I wonder why it has to be referred to as an “order”. A deadly virus is in circulation. Why anyone has to be “ordered” to remain home is beyond me. If a shooter was loose in any given hood, most people would lockdown, how is this dif?

Good point !

I almost had a panic attack thinking about the shopping trip today.........Knock on wood all is well. I went at 8:30 am and they had everything on my list. 0 to 2 people per aisle.......passed a lady loading up on water. She looked at me in my mask, gloves glasses covered hair......the next time we passed she had put her bandana over her nose and mouth......lol......most people were wearing gloves....3 with masks including me. Roughly 20 shoppers and 10 employees. No shields or masks for the employees. Most had gloves. .....also they had put a piece of plastic wrap over the keypad........I don’t use it but wondered if they sterilized it after each use.

Gosh, I was so sweaty I couldn’t wait to get out.

Restocked and locked.

 

[CSIDreamer]

While I agree with your ethics in principles, in real life, I do have more concern about losing doctors and nurses. Experienced nurses are absolutely essential to everyone's health and everyone else is going to die at MUCH higher rates if we lose them. We absolutely cannot put the health of every single individual above the health of our very limited cadre of medical professionals.

As nurses in non-essential positions are furloughed, I'm reading on their message boards that they are really ambivalent about moving to New York or New Jersey to offer help. Think about what that means for them. They have lost their income. They are almost always women with children or families they support. Many are single moms. How can they move to these other states? Why would they do this? They are so torn, their stress and angst is so great, it's very hard to hear about. Many of them are moving or at least strongly contemplating it. If they are in a city where they can get a job at the front lines, most do that first - risking their own life and the lives of their families. They are sleeping in their cars to avoid infecting their families.

So, yes, every life matters, but people who make foolish decisions challenge rational decision making. If 1 doctor can save 1000 lives over a month long period, we sacrifice her or him to help cruise patients (already infected, who made a decision not to social distance?)

Not fond of that model. Nor do I think others critical to saving lives should be sacrificed (policemen are transporting sick people in their cars; policemen are ill and dying; New York's crime rate is rising daily). Should policemen now be expected to walk through abandoned buildings where the homeless congregate (where they are also exposed to resistant TB - another huge problem for police health) in order to transport? Because EMT's are having to deal only with the most needy cases, people who need ambulance transport after self-quarantine. To me people who have done everything right and self-quarantined but still go into severe respiratory distress deserve an ambulance.

It's like everything else. People think that we should have every missing person treated the same way (we'd have to shut down every school and hospital to afford it, and the cost would basically be unlimited). Or that every crime, no manner how minor, should be investigated and reported. Great idea. But in most states, again, that would mean shifting budget away from other crucial social services. We can't raise taxes right now (except on the rich, I suppose).

California is one of the nation's wealthiest states, but a shift of just 1% of the budget away from education means larger class sizes for already overburdened schools. Teachers haven't gotten pay raises in years, most places. Teachers quit at a high rate, because conditions are awful. We buy our own supplies, no longer deductible for income tax purposes. I think we need education, as it is the more educated communities who are faring better - and manufacturing and sending resources to others.

There are tons of essential occupations and while equal compassion toward everyone is a great idea, by the time the peak hits in each city, each state, the beds will already be filled, some beds with people who are not as sick as people coming in.

What then? Compassion alone will not fix it. Triage is real, already, in Italy, Spain, France, UK, New York New Jersey, and elsewhere. I predict that we'll see many more young people die in places that don't grasp the problem early enough. That's because 40-50% of people in hospital beds are under 40 and without that supportive care, their chances of dying go way up - for 20% of them, they would almost certainly die as they need ventilators. They're the ones who are able to come off ventilators.

90 year olds can come off ventilators too - just at much, much lower rates. We're being asked locally to really think hard before requesting our elderly relatives go on ventilators (mine are all gone now, but I did have to face a similar problem with my dad - it was very hard, but fortunately, his advance directive was crystal clear and he had reiterated his wishes multiple times over many many years).

If it's left up to (compassionate) nurses and doctors, once a patient is in a bed, they are going to do absolutely everything possible to save them. Meanwhile people will be dying at home and on cots in tents.

I thoroughly enjoy conversing with you on topics. I totally get what you're saying. I have all the respect and admiration in the world for our first responders. I'm really frustrated by their lack of PPE as well.

What's bothering me is this surreal "Lord of the Flies" vibe I'm getting.

My mother is almost 94 and has told me, "if I get this don't you EVEN do that to me." And instructed me to tell the funeral home to just bury her by my dad and skip the "hoopla". My family is probably a bit different lol.

I dunno. Those of us left when this is over have to live with each other. I'd love to think we will emerge a bit kinder, but I'm a dreamer. Jmo

 

[escape2sc]

I started to notice symptoms at around age 55 and by 56 I was diagnosed with allergies. I was kind of surprised I developed later in life.

Four years ago at age 56, I developed a life threatening allergy to dogs. I have had at least 2 dogs in my house for all of my adult life and once worked for a veterinarian for 2 years. I had 5 anaphylaxis episodes in 3 months - one from the allergy test for dog protein and one episode caused loss of consciousness for almost 10 minutes. We had to re-home our 2 dogs, have our home professionally cleaned including the a/c duct work. All of our clothes and linens had to be freshly laundered, and we had to replace our upholstered furniture and mattresses. Oddly enough, my MS issues have improved to levels of 15 years ago and allergy shots cause my MS to flare so I can't go the allergy shot route. I take zyrtec everyday, carry Epi pens everywhere and try to avoid dogs best I can. I really miss having dogs around but my MS has improved so much I am content to admire dogs from afar.

 

[tresir2012]

2 things.

We were talking about smoking a while back. Apparently, driving is my big trigger. Ive been laid off a couple of weeks now. Last night before bed, I realized I had smoked a grand total of 7 cigarettes all day. I had never put that one together. I drive from account to account. Yesterday, we got extended to the end of April. Goodness. I may be a non smoker by then.

I had to make a walmart run today for my mother. 27 minutes in and out which included a stop by the pharmacy, near jogging pace. There were plenty of cars out, but the store wasnt bad at all. No face mask, no scarf. If anyone got too close I just pulled my hoodie up to my eyes.

That's how I gave up some years ago now but naturally reducing. We were banned from smoking in the office and I hated going outside to smoke. I bought a brand new car for the first time and didn't want to smoke in it. So I stopped taking them to work even. My first cig then was about 6 PM when I got home from work. Then about another 6 or 7 thru the evening watching telly. Eventually I went to the doctor and asked for the patches and cartridges. He said how many do you smoke a day? I said 8 and he said well you are already on stage 3 and gave me the lowest dose patches. I just used to stick the patch on when I got home and had the cartridge if I needed it. It worked really well. I never smoked again. I had smoked for about 30 years.