Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

[CSIDreamer]

Each state has a department of insurance. Life insurance laws are set by this department, NOT divorce court. As stated, I was an all lines insurance agent for years in another state. I had to pass exams to sell insurance.

Read arizona dept of insurance for definition of beneficiary.

Glossary of Life Insurance Terms | Arizona Department of Insurance

• Beneficiary. The person named in the policy to receive the insurance proceeds at the death of the insured. Anyone can be named as a beneficiary.

 

[Sorelle19]

I'm interested in this statement: "spouses and minor children have rights that supercede beneficiary declarations in many situations." It just makes sense that life insurance would follow minor children. It was a condition of my divorce that my ex carry a policy. Lori was unemployed so one could argue she should have gotten some of the proceeds to raise JJ.

 

[KonaHonu]

There’s probably much more that goes into life insurance beneficiary changes. Is it a separate asset or community asset? How was it paid? By separate or community income? Etc etc etc.
You can sell your part of a community asset house, but the other part of the community can make a claim against buyer. This is way more complicated than can or cannot change beneficiaries. To make it a “clean” beneficiary change, spousal approval is usually given for any changes. He thought he was marked for death. He let the insurance company know the facts, and made the beneficiary change. I doubt the carrier would pay out a contested death benefit.

Right. We don't know if the death benefit was paid do we?

The bottom line if if he had a fully paid whole life policy before the marriage then it could be separate property but this sounds like it was a term policy paid for using community income (all income if community income with only a few exceptions in the statute I posted). A term policy is community property that Lori should have been entitled to.

 

[Sorelle19]

How do you figure a life insurance contract to be property?

I think if a policy is a whole life policy it has a cash value and would be considered community property - whereas term has no cash value. So now I'm confused.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Right. We don't know if the death benefit was paid do we?

The bottom line if if he had a fully paid whole life policy before the marriage then it could be separate property but this sounds like it was a term policy paid for using community income (all income if community income with only a few exceptions in the statute I posted). A term policy is community property that Lori should have been entitled to.

Might have been entitled to. All the facts are not in as of yet. So it remains to be seen.

What if his company was a separate asset? And the company owned the policy? Yes, way too many questions. But I would suggest that if Lori had ANY ideas that she could be entitled to any of the policy proceeds, she’d have made the claim already. And we have not heard her make a claim.

 

[KonaHonu]

Each state has a department of insurance. Life insurance laws are set by this department, NOT divorce court. As stated, I was an all lines insurance agent for years in another state. I had to pass exams to sell insurance.

Read arizona dept of insurance for definition of beneficiary.

Glossary of Life Insurance Terms | Arizona Department of Insurance

• Beneficiary. The person named in the policy to receive the insurance proceeds at the death of the insured. Anyone can be named as a beneficiary.

Did you practice in a community property state? In Arizona you have to get permission to list anyone other than your spouse as a beneficiary if you are married. Arizona, Texas, and Idaho are all community property states. Each spouse can have separate property but it takes a lot of effort to do so. Any shared bank account or other comingling of funds can trip you up. Since we know Lori and Charles shared a bank account it is very hard to believe his insurance policy was separate property, especially if it was a term policy. He would have no way to pay for it because he had no sepaarate income.

A spouse s right to life insurance money

ETA: added a link

 

[Diddian]

See 25-211 - Property acquired during marriage as community property; exceptions; effect of service of a petition (Arizona Revised Statutes 25-211). It defines community property. Life insurance policies are property. Filing for divorce doesn't change anything unless a divorce is actually granted and it was not for Charles and Lori.

As I understand it, distribution of community property shared by married persons is not the only relevant law here.

Under the "slayer rule," a person forfeits inheritance of insurance proceeds if they participate in the first or second degree murder of or (at least in Arizona) manslaughter of the insured. And unlike criminal conviction for murder or manslaughter, the slayer rule involves civil law, so the prosecutor need only prove murder or manslaughter by a preponderance of the evidence (like in wrongful death claims).

The death of CV has been an open investigation since it occurred, so LVD likely could not attempt to secure her 50% share of CV's life insurance payout until (1) CV's death investigation is concluded without murder or manslaughter charges against her (OR she wins an acquittal if she is charged), AND (2) she also successfully defends herself against a lower standard (preponderance of evidence rather than beyond a reasonable doubt) prosecution in civil court based upon the slayer rule.

According to Wikipedia, "Arizona touts its slayer rule as the strongest in the nation."

Slayer_rule

ETA: Another interesting read on the subject:

What happens if your life insurance beneficiary murders you?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Snipped for focus:
Konahonu previous post: “I suspect the insurance company screwed up. I posted a reference to the statute above.”

I doubt the insurance company made a mistake. Especially this size of a mistake. They were on notice of potential problems bc of the marriage on the rocks, murders, etc. This size policy change of beneficiary received top review at the home office. And approval before being implemented.

ETA: Back to basics.
Where are the kids. Where is Tammy’s autopsy report? What really killed Alex?

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Nate Eaton on Twitter

Alex Cox's family has issued a statement through their attorneys.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Did you practice in a community property state? In Arizona you have to get permission to list anyone other than your spouse as a beneficiary if you are married. Arizona, Texas, and Idaho are all community property states. Each spouse can have separate property but it takes a lot of effort to do so. Any shared bank account or other comingling of funds can trip you up. Since we know Lori and Charles shared a bank account it is very hard to believe his insurance policy was separate property, especially if it was a term policy. He would have no way to pay for it because he had no sepaarate income.

A spouse s right to life insurance money

ETA: added a link

I didn't practice law. I sold insurance.

 

[Paulas88]

TY for posting this transcript Tortoise, it is very helpful.

So according to JC and SS there is no way Alex or Lori would hurt the kids so it seems that by their omission it must be Chad. SS says they have never been invited to Lori's weddings. JC says they have been invited but have never gone. They admit they have never liked any of her husbands so I guess they are including Chad too, whom they have only met once. Yet they know some of Chad's acquaintances think he is some sort of messiah? This is a strange statement.

"I’ve spoken to people who live near Chad and they say ‘we follow Chad’. They look at Chad like he is some sort of messiah."

This sounds like a defense Lori could be going with, to blame Chad, except... they have the same lawyer?

 

[Sticksandspades]

Nate Eaton on Twitter

Alex Cox's family has issued a statement through their attorneys.

Fair enough.
Much better tone than the Press Release re: Brandon.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I didn't practice law. I sold insurance.

Hahahaha. And probably made way more money with less stress.
Clerks at the court house sometimes know more than the lawyers filing papers....I try to get them to give me a second opinion any chance I get when I’m not sure what’s happening.
So, there are many sources of information for this benefit payout mess.

 

[Gigi3]

Well it sounds to me like good ole karma found her way to Alex’s doorstep. MOO

If Chad and Lori are supposedly God fearing people, his death should have been a reality check for them. That’s why I think all the religious talk with them is just BS. JMO

 

[Sorelle19]

Did you practice in a community property state? In Arizona you have to get permission to list anyone other than your spouse as a beneficiary if you are married. Arizona, Texas, and Idaho are all community property states. Each spouse can have separate property but it takes a lot of effort to do so. Any shared bank account or other comingling of funds can trip you up. Since we know Lori and Charles shared a bank account it is very hard to believe his insurance policy was separate property, especially if it was a term policy. He would have no way to pay for it because he had no sepaarate income.

A spouse s right to life insurance money

ETA: added a link

Thank you very much for the link and this information. If the kids are alive I fully expect to see this argued in a court of law as to why she should get the proceeds. Of course, that's if she even has a chance anymore of keeping custody of JJ. As I said in the last thread, it's ironic that her actions in and of themselves will probably make that impossible now.

 

[Diddian]

If that is natural causes too then I guess there won't be a murder trial.

It would be another amazing coincidence though, wouldn't it - TD dying at home of natural causes within just a couple weeks of shots taken at her as she arrives home in her driveway (just like BB), LV buying a ring on Amazon and browsing wedding dresses online, and CD smacking LV's bottom in full view of the surveillance camera at the storage unit?

In TD's case, I could understand results that are indeterminate, but natural causes? I'd figure the conspirators just got away with it, wish them worse luck in arriving coroner next time, and I'd still be setting up appointments beyond July 22 on the calendar.

 

[KonaHonu]

How do you figure a life insurance contract to be property?

What else would it be? Anything that can be owned is property

Legal Definition of Property | UpCounsel 2019

"Property includes not only money and other tangible things of value, but also any intangible right considered as a source or element of income or wealth."

The right to benefit from the contract is property.

 

[KonaHonu]

How do you figure a life insurance contract to be property?

What else would it be? Anything that can be owned is property

Legal Definition of Property | UpCounsel 2019

"Property includes not only money and other tangible things of value, but also any intangible right considered as a source or element of income or wealth."

The right to benefit from the contract is property.

 

[tresir2012]

Sorry, I should have said, the sentences in bold are Morgan Loew's questions/words. It was him saying that about Chad.

Oh of course. Still weird for him to say that too.

 

[KonaHonu]

I didn't practice law. I sold insurance.

I understood that. I meant did you sell insurance in a community property state?