Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

[Gardenkeep]

Okay, read the East Idaho Maricopa coroner report. I agree the the atherosclerotic (plaque) vessels and subsequent mild fibrotic changes in the heart are likely prescient in many many 50yo sedentary truck drivers. DVTs , deep venous thrombi(clots) can happen if you are sedentary for long periods of time. The way DVTs lead to death is that they form in the large veins of the legs and then come loose to lodge in the lungs (put really simply). This causes the lung equivalent of a “heart attack”. It’s a ‘lung attack’ to coin a phrase, and in medical jargon is a “PE” or “pulmonary embolism.“ You would expect to find one big clots (not lots) and a dead wedge of lung tissue. To have lots of emboli, the cause is usually a chronic cardiac arrhythmia or intravenous drug use. In that case, emboli would be found in lots of other places, not JUST the lungs. Also, gastric contents in the bronchi? He aspirated, meaning he vomited and contents were inhaled. This could happen during CPR. In the lab results? What the heck? Where is the anion gap measurement? That is your first clue to any kind of poisoning usually. That potassium! That is way way elevated. I deal with live patients, so wasn’t sure if reference ranges are different for dead people, but per the report, yep it’s crazy high alright. But there is a disclosure it could be inaccurate if they collected it in the wrong tube. That is irresponsible. Why even collect it if you are going to put it in the wrong tube. Overdose of potassium can lead to heart attack and death quickly. So many questions in my mind! Let’s say, he does have all these emboli, ONLY in his lungs, at baseline and then has a big one that leads to death. He would be noticeably short of breath, likely chest pain (PEs hurt) with any kind of cardiovascular activity, like going for walks, walking and talking at the same time. JMO, JMO, JMO but this autopsy, or at least what I have read so far, does not make me reflect “oh, of course. That makes sense.” One big emboli, sure. That’s like those PEs that kill well women, bedbound convalescents, and people with known history of DVTs, but too numerous to count emboli all over the lungs, and ONLY in the lungs? 5 months? For this? Hopefully the FBI medical folks are also taking a detailed look at this.

I LOVED reading this. It's like being back at work. LOL I just wanted to say thank you.

 

[MadTing]

What is actually being done right now regarding searching for the kids?

 

[Gardenkeep]

What is actually being done right now regarding searching for the kids?

IMO, I would bet there are boots on the ground following any leads, and it's being kept close to the cuff because if they are being held somewhere LE doesn't want to tip them off. If they aren't being held, well, LE is going to keep that progress quiet too, for the sake of the investigation. I truly believe there is an intense search taking place. We just aren't going to know a lot of it.

 

[CSIDreamer]

What is actually being done right now regarding searching for the kids?

Last I recall hearing they were waiting on snow to melt to search for Tylee.

I'm sure there is a lot going on behind the scenes they can't release. Jmo

 

[spandangly]

I LOVED reading this. It's like being back at work. LOL I just wanted to say thank you.

@Gardenkeep can you respond to the questions @Riverdoc raised? I'd love to hear your thoughts on multiple emboli, etc.

 

[Gardenkeep]

@Gardenkeep can you respond to the questions @Riverdoc raised? I'd love to hear your thoughts on multiple emboli, etc.

Riverdoc is much more astute and a Doc, right? I worked under folks like Riverdoc. My input would be just that. Riverdoc can validate or explain if I'm off in my thinking.

The elevated potassium can sometimes occur as a false positive if the cells in the blood draw rupture. The ruptured cells will leak their potassium and taint the results. Generally another draw is done to confirm a true reading, but that may not have been done in AC's case. Also, dehydration can elevate the potassium, and that may be a possibility considering his creatinine was elevated at 1.6. Creatinine is a measure of how well the kidneys are functioning. The kidneys work harder if there is dehydration. I relied strongly on that lab when doing contrast studies in CT. So, that is what I am guessing about the elevated potassium.

The multiple PE folci is the most common way that PE presents. It generally isn't just one. The single clot will fragment into smaller clots which then appear in different areas of the lung vessels. The lack of clots in the legs my be because they left no residual evidence behind, particularly if they traveled days before to the lungs.
What I found concerning were the large cavernous hemangiomas in the liver. In very rare cases, these hemangiomas can cause blood clots that lead to PEs. But it isn't common, so it is a small possible cause of the PEs and why there was no evidence of clots in the legs.

He definitely aspirated. I'm just not sure how much that may have contributed. (Riverdoc, what do you think?)

The lack of the anion-gap is concerning. Like RiverDoc said, that was a missed part of the puzzle, and I can't imagine why it wasn't done.

 

[Diddian]

Okay, read the East Idaho Maricopa coroner report. I agree the the atherosclerotic (plaque) vessels and subsequent mild fibrotic changes in the heart are likely prescient in many many 50yo sedentary truck drivers. DVTs , deep venous thrombi(clots) can happen if you are sedentary for long periods of time. The way DVTs lead to death is that they form in the large veins of the legs and then come loose to lodge in the lungs (put really simply). This causes the lung equivalent of a “heart attack”. It’s a ‘lung attack’ to coin a phrase, and in medical jargon is a “PE” or “pulmonary embolism.“ You would expect to find one big clots (not lots) and a dead wedge of lung tissue. To have lots of emboli, the cause is usually a chronic cardiac arrhythmia or intravenous drug use. In that case, emboli would be found in lots of other places, not JUST the lungs. Also, gastric contents in the bronchi? He aspirated, meaning he vomited and contents were inhaled. This could happen during CPR. In the lab results? What the heck? Where is the anion gap measurement? That is your first clue to any kind of poisoning usually. That potassium! That is way way elevated. I deal with live patients, so wasn’t sure if reference ranges are different for dead people, but per the report, yep it’s crazy high alright. But there is a disclosure it could be inaccurate if they collected it in the wrong tube. That is irresponsible. Why even collect it if you are going to put it in the wrong tube. Overdose of potassium can lead to heart attack and death quickly. So many questions in my mind! Let’s say, he does have all these emboli, ONLY in his lungs, at baseline and then has a big one that leads to death. He would be noticeably short of breath, likely chest pain (PEs hurt) with any kind of cardiovascular activity, like going for walks, walking and talking at the same time. JMO, JMO, JMO but this autopsy, or at least what I have read so far, does not make me reflect “oh, of course. That makes sense.” One big emboli, sure. That’s like those PEs that kill well women, bedbound convalescents, and people with known history of DVTs, but too numerous to count emboli all over the lungs, and ONLY in the lungs? 5 months? For this? Hopefully the FBI medical folks are also taking a detailed look at this.

Thank you, Riverdoc, for sharing your knowledge on the subject. Based on what you have shared, I also hope FBI medical folks are taking a detailed look.

I'm curious whether what you described (lots of tiny emboli in the lungs) is also what is being found in the lungs of those who have become infected with COVID19 and suffered more serious symptoms than those who have mild cases. I've seen reports about lots of clots in the lower lungs, with bits of dead tissue, in those cases.

I ask because there have been some reports that COVID19 was spreading here in the western US earlier than originally thought. AxC traveled to Vegas for his and Melani's marriages on November 29 & 30 and there were reports that he was having trouble breathing the week before he died on December 12. I don't think he was very overweight and he was not yet in his 60's, but the atherosclerosis and hypertension would be complicating factors in a COVID19 infection, as I understand it. I know very little about medical subjects, but I think I also remember hearing something about potassium levels drastically changing in COVID19-related cytokine storm, but cannot remember which way.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Lori's sister and mother have always been on Lori's side. They considered Charles Vallow the bad guy when Lori started acting up in early 2019. It was Summer who asked Alex to be present when Charles came to pick up JJ on July 11. I'd like to know more about her role in those events. On the other hand, Lori's brother Adam, who Charles was also in contact with, was able to make a different conclusion and does not appear to be sharing his mother's and sister's delusions. Colby is another example.

ETA: I admit I don't have much sympathy for Lori's family after the latest interview. IMO they mostly feel sorry for themselves and for Lori. I saw very little concern for the well-being of "those children".

I am trying to figure out why we think sister and mother have always been on Lori's side. Did I miss something, since I had a lot of catching up to do???
I have wondered if they were somewhat estranged until the shtf.... They didn't know anything that was going on with marriages, disappearances etc.

I also question whether they really thought Charles was such a bad guy--when he gave Lori so so much. I think Lori's fibs changed their opinions rather than him actually being a bad guy... I don't really believe Summer's statement either about she having been the one to put Alex there..

But your final statement keeps ringing in my mind as "ain't that the truth".
All this "support" is coming so late. I really do think it is the Cox family tradition to make themselves look "ok to the world". This is to protect themselves as "great parents who raised a little girl who was such a good little mother." I also think it is just part of the overall strategy of the Defense. "But look what a good mother she was. Even the neighbors said so. Even KAY said so".

And pulling out all "the Stepford wives" is strategic as well.. maybe to convince guys of "how could all these pretty little heads do wrong", and to convince the gals.. "gosh, we women, of course we will always be good mothers"

Sorry for the overdramatic quotes...but...I think this is all they got left.

 

[AZlawyer]

@AZlawyer, thanks, I think you have confirmed much of what I've said although I likely have many details wrong.

It seems I am wrong that it is "illegal" to change beneficiary on life insurance without spousal permisssion in Arizona. I defer to your knowledge, but in decades of living in Arizona, every time I made a beneficiary change I had to check a box if the beneficiary was not my wife aven if it was a trust she was part of. And the link below from nolo.com also supports the need for written consent

Naming a Beneficiary for Your Life Insurance Policy

And, wouldn't you agree that changing the beneficiary would violate the standard preliminary injuction initiated by a divorce petition by impairing Lori's interests?

Yes, it would violate the AZ standard injunction if it were community property. Since his attorneys approved of the change and LV never challenged it, perhaps it was not community property.

I still have no understanding of how this could possibly have anything to do with a “custody dispute,” unless you mean that Lori May be demanding that Kay hand over the money if she ever wants to see JJ again.

 

[AZlawyer]

Right, which means the beneficiary change should not have gone into effect.

The beneficiary change would still be effective—it just means that, IF the policy was community property, Lori could have filed a probate action to ensure she received at least half of the total community property after CV’s death.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thank you, Riverdoc, for sharing your knowledge on the subject. Based on what you have shared, I also hope FBI medical folks are taking a detailed look.

I'm curious whether what you described (lots of tiny emboli in the lungs) is also what is being found in the lungs of those who have become infected with COVID19 and suffered more serious symptoms than those who have mild cases. I've seen reports about lots of clots in the lower lungs, with bits of dead tissue, in those cases.

I ask because there have been some reports that COVID19 was spreading here in the western US earlier than originally thought. AxC traveled to Vegas for his and Melani's marriages on November 29 & 30 and there were reports that he was having trouble breathing the week before he died on December 12. I don't think he was very overweight and he was not yet in his 60's, but the atherosclerosis and hypertension would be complicating factors in a COVID19 infection, as I understand it. I know very little about medical subjects, but I think I also remember hearing something about potassium levels drastically changing in COVID19-related cytokine storm, but cannot remember which way.

I had that same thought. Jmo

 

[Sticksandspades]

Are you serious? They know more about insurance and the policy than we will ever know.

I thought that the policy was essentially a contract between the policyholder and insurance company and that they are just going to pay who ever is listed as the beneficiary. You can list a non-spouse in a CP state and long as the spouse still received 50% of the estate. If Lori believed the estate was worth less than $2m she could take legal action. What I'm saying is Kay could keep the $1M if there was $M in other assets 401K etc.

In re Estate of Kirkes: Non-Spouse Beneficiaries and Community Property Retirement Accounts

I just don't thing we have enough of the critical facts.
What kind of policy?
Was it paid for with separate assets or community property?
What was the total size of CV's estate?

 

[petchie]

The lack of the anion-gap is concerning. Like RiverDoc said, that was a missed part of the puzzle, and I can't imagine why it wasn't done.

Ex Lab Person here. Anion Gap is not a test, it is merely a calculation. The anion gap is calculated by subtracting the serum concentrations of chloride and bicarbonate from the concentrations of sodium and potassium

Here is an easy cheat calculator Anion Gap Calculator

 

[Sticksandspades]

Means is wasting so much time and money on fishing expeditions. I'm to the point I'm not entertained in the slightest by his antics. Jmo

Right, and I'm not sure I understand the delay strategy. If there is a formal strategy! If she wants to get out of jail and have her day in court....then get past the Prelim hearing and move the case to DC and have her say at the trial. Trying to get the charges dismissed on a technicality seems fruitless, as long as the kids are missing.

I can understand (not agree with) the mistrust of LE and government and I can understand delay tactics when it come to battles with the IRS as there's no human suffering, however, as a loving mother, who's surviving in jail with all communication with family and supporters on a recoded line (therefore no info about her kids can be passed along, unless through her lawyer) it seems this is a ridiculous strategy.

I would hope someone is advising her to find away to demonstrate the kids are alive that is mutually acceptable to LE. Even her own mother says she suggested that. Baffling! Is Chad the only person she's listening to? Maybe her family ought to have an intervention with Chad like Kay did!

 

[Sticksandspades]

Means is wasting so much time and money on fishing expeditions. I'm to the point I'm not entertained in the slightest by his antics. Jmo

Right, and I'm not sure I understand the delay strategy. If there is a formal strategy! If she wants to get out of jail and have her day in court....then get past the Prelim hearing and move the case to DC and have her say at the trial. Trying to get the charges dismissed on a technicality seems fruitless, as long as the kids are missing.

I can understand (not agree with) the mistrust of LE and government and I can understand delay tactics when it come to battles with the IRS as there's no human suffering, however, as a loving mother, who's surviving in jail with all communication with family and supporters on a recoded line (therefore no info about her kids can be passed along, unless through her lawyer) it seems this is a ridiculous strategy.

I would hope someone is advising her to find away to demonstrate the kids are alive that is mutually acceptable to LE. Even her own mother says she suggested that. Baffling! Is Chad the only person she's listening to? Maybe her family ought to have an intervention with Chad like Kay did!

Sometimes it's not clear to first responders if the patient has OD'd or not, so they may administer Narcan "just in case" since he was unconscious.

Also in this case didn't the EMT get there before ZP?

 

[indicolite22]

I am trying to figure out why we think sister and mother have always been on Lori's side. Did I miss something, since I had a lot of catching up to do???
I have wondered if they were somewhat estranged until the shtf.... They didn't know anything that was going on with marriages, disappearances etc.

I also question whether they really thought Charles was such a bad guy--when he gave Lori so so much. I think Lori's fibs changed their opinions rather than him actually being a bad guy...

BBM. By "always" I meant before the kids' disappearance, as far back as we know. Lori's mother said that everything was fine between Charles and Lori, until she accused him of cheating (as if it was true) and that's why he accused her of being weird, calling herself a god, etc. (as if it was untrue). Janis claims that Charles' cheating ruined the marriage. Before Charles' death, Lori's sister Summer implied that Charles was treatening Lori and that her life was in danger so she needed Alex to be there. So yes, when Lori started acting up, which seemingly coincided with her getting involved with Chad, her family (except for one brother) sided with her against Charles. It's not so surprising that they support her when it comes to the missing children.

 

[Spartygirl]

Might have been entitled to. All the facts are not in as of yet. So it remains to be seen.

What if his company was a separate asset? And the company owned the policy? Yes, way too many questions. But I would suggest that if Lori had ANY ideas that she could be entitled to any of the policy proceeds, she’d have made the claim already. And we have not heard her make a claim.

No word of any claim by her but she did "Fraudulently" change his password and Pin number for ACCESS TO THE POLICY most likely to prevent him from removing her as beneficiary--before he was murdered by her brother.

It took an official letter to the Insurance Company and a Notarized beneficiary change form to give Charles access to his policy again.

Charles also had filed an "ORDER OF PROTECTION " against Lori due to her physically threatening his life.

Chad & Lori are both on same Podcast episode "Preparing a People" DEC 2018

All the above with the Insurance policy was in Feb-March 2019

Lori vanishes for almost 2 months and Charles does NOT know where she is at during that time FEB-March 2018

Melani (Lori Niece) Unexpectedly files divorce from Brandon JUNE 2019

Charles was murdered July 2019

Lori and kids moved to Idaho in August 2019

JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan go MISSING in Sept 2019

Tammy Daybell approached by a man wearing a Ski Mask OCT 2019

Tammy Daybell mysteriously died in October 2019

Brandon (Melani's husband) is shot at in October 2019

Lori and Chad get Married November 5 2019

Alex & Zulema are married in Las Vegas Nov 29 2019

Melani and Ian are married in Las Vegas Nov 30 2019

LE investigate Tammy Daybell death & Exhume her body Dec 11 2019

Alex mysteriously dies December 12 2019

The plan was in action, IMO back in 2018, beginning of 2019 and this trail that follows STARTS with Chad and Lori and the Life Insurance policy and just gets worse.

 

[MsJosie]

Eric Grossarth on Twitter
The @GilbertPolice tell me the investigation into Alex Cox's death is still "active." Investigators will review the medical examiner's report. While the death of Cox is now ruled as natural the big question still remains. #WhereAreTheKids? #FindJJandTylee

They should get a second opinion. Never know what might be missed.

 

[Gardener1850]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed at member request as it was not what member intended> The life insurance money was not legally tied to custody of JJ in any way, shape, or form. There was no clause requiring the beneficiary of Charles' life insurance have custody of JJ to receive the money, and Charles left no requirement for Kay to give any of the money to his other kids either (although Kay indicated she wanted to give some of the money to his sons). Kay already received the life insurance payout without having custody of JJ.

Sources:

"Kay, who is also JJ's paternal grandmother, said her role in the policy does not change, and is separate from whether she gets custody of JJ."

Source: Charles Vallow removed Lori Vallow as $1M life insurance beneficiary in 2019

“(Charles) said, ‘Lori doesn’t want me anymore. She doesn’t want JJ and you’ll end up raising JJ so I want you to have the money,'” Woodcock recalls.

They never discussed the policy again, but Woodcock confirmed they did receive the money. She said receiving the money was not contingent on having custody of JJ.

Charles Vallow had a $1 million life insurance policy he left to JJ's grandma, rather than Lori Vallow Daybell | East Idaho News

 

[tresir2012]

Riverdoc is much more astute and a Doc, right? I worked under folks like Riverdoc. My input would be just that. Riverdoc can validate or explain if I'm off in my thinking.

The elevated potassium can sometimes occur as a false positive if the cells in the blood draw rupture. The ruptured cells will leak their potassium and taint the results. Generally another draw is done to confirm a true reading, but that may not have been done in AC's case. Also, dehydration can elevate the potassium, and that may be a possibility considering his creatinine was elevated at 1.6. Creatinine is a measure of how well the kidneys are functioning. The kidneys work harder if there is dehydration. I relied strongly on that lab when doing contrast studies in CT. So, that is what I am guessing about the elevated potassium.

The multiple PE folci is the most common way that PE presents. It generally isn't just one. The single clot will fragment into smaller clots which then appear in different areas of the lung vessels. The lack of clots in the legs my be because they left no residual evidence behind, particularly if they traveled days before to the lungs.
What I found concerning were the large cavernous hemangiomas in the liver. In very rare cases, these hemangiomas can cause blood clots that lead to PEs. But it isn't common, so it is a small possible cause of the PEs and why there was no evidence of clots in the legs.

He definitely aspirated. I'm just not sure how much that may have contributed. (Riverdoc, what do you think?)

The lack of the anion-gap is concerning. Like RiverDoc said, that was a missed part of the puzzle, and I can't imagine why it wasn't done.

Do you have any thoughts about the cannabis, caffeine, alcohol and I think there was a barbiturate in his blood too?

READ: The medical examiner and toxicology reports on Alex Cox | East Idaho News