Members' Theories #2

I don't know who this is! All I know is her family certainly didn't kill her. Too absurd to even second guess. This should have been investigated Immediately and it wasn't.

Was John Brewer Eustace investigated by Steve Thomas and Ron Gosage, yes or no?

s-john-brewer-eustace.htm

Investigated by
Steve Thomas
Ron Gosage
Alibi:
Job Time Sheet
Qualex Plant
N.Carolina
+ Co-Workers
Witness
 
i've said many times that both RDI and IDI take gigantic "leaps of credibility"......... little evidence of IDI. seems wildly out of character for RDI. and not sure how good the evidence is for RDI either

as per this eustace who i'd never heard of..... surely the boulder PD checked on his whereabouts the night in question as a first step....... as i said elsewhere, wouldn't an IDI DNA be everywhere in that room? i get the idea all they found non-R was trace stuff

it seems impossible that some pedophile drifter wrote the ransom note. to me, it screams of being written by a woman (i understand others may not agree)........

for someone else to write the ransom note i think is suggest a sophisticated frame-up of the R's.... completely different than pedophile drifters........ not sure why a frame-up of the R's would include a sexual assualt (although i question whether that happened........ the state of JBR's private areas seem to be one place where the evidence is very murky)
 
as per the person asking the question about why the R's would do such elaborate staging......

1) if someone notices them leaving the house or JBR DNA in the trunk, it would be very very bad.

2) not thinking correctly... thinking you are very smart. etc. etc.

here's a question....... without the ransom letter, would we even be talking about this case? is that mostly what makes this case highly unique? (child beauty pagaent is an obvious thing too.. but not like the ransom letter in uniqueness)
 
to do cliff notes, IDI seems like either crazed pedophile drifter or major revenge...... to me, neither fits. not does RDI fit really either.
 
as per the person asking the question about why the R's would do such elaborate staging......

1) if someone notices them leaving the house or JBR DNA in the trunk, it would be very very bad.

2) not thinking correctly... thinking you are very smart. etc. etc.

here's a question....... without the ransom letter, would we even be talking about this case? is that mostly what makes this case highly unique? (child beauty pagaent is an obvious thing too.. but not like the ransom letter in uniqueness)
Great point. The ransom letter was a huge mistake. Without that, I would believe any theory was possible.
That letter was 100% written by PR. 1 of the 3 R's in that house killed that little girl. LE would never have enough evidence to convict anyone. Lawyers could probably get a jury to believe it was a family member, but not which one without reasonable doubt.
 
i've said many times that both RDI and IDI take gigantic "leaps of credibility"......... little evidence of IDI. seems wildly out of character for RDI.

I'm with you on that. I see more evidence for RDI than IDI, but it still leaves a number of unsanswered questions. I know that for many (perhaps a majority?) of the posters here, the evidence RDI is self- evident and I lean in that direction myself, but I still think it requires making certain assumptions to believe it. Perhaps that explain why so many people are still interested in the case 24 years later.

One question I'd be interested to ask a handwriting expert about is how easy (or not) it is to disguise one's own handwriting. I've had very distinct handwriting my whole life and I don't know that I could disguise it even if I wanted to. Just as a thought experiment, I tried recopying the first paragraph of the ransom note a four times to see if I could make my handwriting look different each time. I did it once in print, once in cursive, once in sort of a print/cursive hybrid, once in all capital letters. (I also started to do it once with my non-dominant hand, but quit after a sentence. It looks like a young child's handwriting). In my opinion, anyone who knows me well would be able to recognize any of the four versions as me. The only version that looks even remotely differenet is the one that I wrote in all capital letters, and even that has the same angle/tilt as my other handwriting. Maybe Patsy had something in her background like calligraphy training that made her comfortable she could evade detection, but it seems like a huge task to pull off.

(Again, I welcome alternate perspectives).
 
the evidence in this case is a big mess........ some say it looks like patsy's handwriting. patsy's handwriting apparently changed after this incident (why?)...... but other credible people say it looks like patsy's writing with her off-hand. that is simply amazing someone can write like that with their off-hand...........

so who really knows? seems obvious to me PR wrote it, but i could certainly be very wrong about that.
 
the tilt was one of the things that ruled out JR.......... not sure someone would think to disguise tilt. and as you say/imply someone wouldn't be able to disguise it for many paragraphs.

a key question is why the ransom letter is so long and flowing............ if it's fake, why tailor it to ficticious kidnapping?
 
the evidence in this case is a big mess........ some say it looks like patsy's handwriting. patsy's handwriting apparently changed after this incident (why?)...... but other credible people say it looks like patsy's writing with her off-hand. that is simply amazing someone can write like that with their off-hand...........

so who really knows? seems obvious to me PR wrote it, but i could certainly be very wrong about that.

This raises an intriguing question: do we know if Patsy was right-handed or left-handed? In the early-to-mid 20th century, it was not totally unheard of for teachers to encourage left-handed cihldren to write with their right hand, and a as a result, some of of these children were at least partially ambidextrous as adults. Given Patsy's birth year (1956) and upbringing in a conservative area (rural West Virignia), I wouldn't be shocked if she had the ability to write with both hands. Writing the ransom note in her non-dominant hand would certainy explain why the handwriting has a similarity to hers but not overly so. But I also think that investigators would have picked up on this -- close friends like the Fleets probably would have noticed if she were ambidextrous, which usually manifests itself in ways other than writing.

As usual, my MOO.
 
it does seem bizarre that the note's writing looks like patsy's correct hand and her off-hand.

assuming you can write/print well with your off-hand, is there any reason it would look similar? would you loop letters the same way? i have no idea.

i am just thinking out loud here (and previous paragraph) but as a lefthander myself i know that she'd probably leave all kinds of smudging (maybe minor but it would be everywhere) with her LH

to me, off-hand seems like massive red-herring.... not sure how it came about. and it might just be tabloid story.. that's a problem. once tabloids get involved who really knows what is original true evidence?
 
This raises an intriguing question: do we know if Patsy was right-handed or left-handed? In the early-to-mid 20th century, it was not totally unheard of for teachers to encourage left-handed cihldren to write with their right hand, and a as a result, some of of these children were at least partially ambidextrous as adults. Given Patsy's birth year (1956) and upbringing in a conservative area (rural West Virignia), I wouldn't be shocked if she had the ability to write with both hands. Writing the ransom note in her non-dominant hand would certainy explain why the handwriting has a similarity to hers but not overly so. But I also think that investigators would have picked up on this -- close friends like the Fleets probably would have noticed if she were ambidextrous, which usually manifests itself in ways other than writing.

As usual, my MOO.
retrometro,
PR was ambidextrous.
According to ST:
Well, I think the most significant evidence in this case was the pen, the pad, the ransom note and the handwriting. And when we finished an investigation after 18 months and presented our case to the district attorney's office, presumably for them to move it forward, one statistic that was cited in that presentation was that out of 73 people whose handwriting was examined in this case, there was only one whose handwriting showed evidence to suggest authorship, who was in the home that night, who couldn't be eliminated as the author, and that was Patsy Ramsey.
 
retrometro,
PR was ambidextrous.
According to ST:
Well, I think the most significant evidence in this case was the pen, the pad, the ransom note and the handwriting. And when we finished an investigation after 18 months and presented our case to the district attorney's office, presumably for them to move it forward, one statistic that was cited in that presentation was that out of 73 people whose handwriting was examined in this case, there was only one whose handwriting showed evidence to suggest authorship, who was in the home that night, who couldn't be eliminated as the author, and that was Patsy Ramsey.
I wanted to add to the above statement this:
PR’s partial handprint was on the ransom note. JR’s was not. Story told, he moved the RN from the spiral staircase to the back hallway (Floor). So, where are his fingerprints? When asked for PR writing pads, JR handed LE her pad from which the RN had been written. Oh my! Did he perhaps help execute the RN? I believe they were both indicted for this sort of thing; amongst others. Oh my!
 
You know when kids break things and commonly they try to hide what they broke to try and hide what they had done? My theory:

Burke hits JB over the head in a rage over something, perhaps the theory that she stole some of his pineapple snack. Fractured skull, brain bleed... she's not waking up. So he freaks out. Makes himself a toggle rope using his boy scout knowledge and attempts to 'hide' JB in the basement. This process inadvertently kills her by preventing blood flow to her head as he's dragging her down there. Parents wake up, eventually find out what happened. Oh *advertiser censored*, our up son just killed our daughter. Patsy is freaking out, she's just found out her cancer has returned and has made the realization that Burke will be institutionalized for longer than the period she potentially has to live. She just lost one child, she may lose another. The father on the other hand knows the news of this will probably put him out of commission. So they (poorly) fabricate a kidnapping tale and the rest is history.

Things of note:

1. Burke had a history of acting out in a rage. He had hit JB over the head with a golf club previously, leaving a scar.
2. Several 'my son needs help' type books were found in the house. I think the family knew Burke was a lose screw.
3. The 'taser marks' were likely made by a piece of his train set whilst poking her in a childish attempt by Burke to wake her up.
4. The unknown DNA profile found on the underwear, two theories: either DNA picked up from the carpet whilst Burke was dragging her, or someone left it accidentally during production.
5. Not sure what to make of the vaginal scarring, I'm not going to get into potential sexual abuse however predators have been known to be involved in the child pageant industry in which she was apart of.
6. The empty suitcase found near her body, perhaps was to be used to move her outside the house to be hidden elsewhere. The parents probably didnt have the heart to treat their child like that and left her where she was instead.
7. Speaking of suitcases, what to make of the other suitcase found in the basement that had two items: a semen stained childs blanket, and a bunch of childrens books? The semen DNA matched John Ramsey's son from a previous marriage.
 
Last edited:
You know when kids break things and commonly they try to hide what they broke to try and hide what they had done? My theory:

Burke hits JB over the head in a rage over something, perhaps the theory that she stole some of his pineapple snack. Fractured skull, brain bleed... she's not waking up. So he freaks out. Makes himself a toggle rope using his boy scout knowledge and attempts to 'hide' JB in the basement. This process inadvertently kills her by preventing blood flow to her head as he's dragging her down there. Parents wake up, eventually find out what happened. Oh ****, our ****** up son just killed our daughter. Patsy is freaking out, she's just found out her cancer has returned and has made the realization that Burke will be institutionalized for longer than the period she potentially has to live. She just lost one child, she may lose another. The father on the other hand knows the news of this will probably put him out of commission. So they (poorly) fabricate a kidnapping tale and the rest is history.

Things of note:

1. Burke had a history of acting out in a rage. He had hit JB over the head with a golf club previously, leaving a scar.
2. Several 'my son needs help' type books were found in the house. I think the family knew Burke was a lose screw.
3. The 'taser marks' were likely made by a piece of his train set whilst poking her in a childish attempt by Burke to wake her up.
4. The unknown DNA profile found on the underwear, two theories: either DNA picked up from the carpet whilst Burke was dragging her, or someone left it accidentally during production.
5. Not sure what to make of the vaginal scarring, I'm not going to get into potential sexual abuse however predators have been known to be involved in the child pageant industry in which she was apart of.
6. The empty suitcase found near her body, perhaps was to be used to move her outside the house to be hidden elsewhere. The parents probably didnt have the heart to treat their child like that and left her where she was instead.
7. Speaking of suitcases, what to make of the other suitcase found in the basement that had two items: a semen stained childs blanket, and a bunch of childrens books? The semen DNA matched John Ramsey's son from a previous marriage.
7. Grooming.
 
I just read Perfect Murder, Perfect Town this weekend, and wow. Assuming it's accurate, I now have a much better understanding of what went wrong with the investigation and why the case will in all likelihood never be solved. For me, the #1 takeaway from the book was that both the Boulder PD and Boulder DA's office screwed up badly. It wasn't just that the Boulder P.D. bothched their handling of the initial crime scene (though that certainly didn't help things) or just that the D.A. lacked experience proesecuting high profile murders. There were deep problems in both offices that combined to form a perfect storm of incompetence.

The book doesn't present a definitive theory of what happened. I would say that I now lean toward PDI as the most likely explanation, but I think there are other possibilities as well.
 
as per the child's blanket and the semen, i'd say it's just a blanket and he may have used it to sleep and masturbate or have sex with GF.........

i have heard of very little interest in JB jr. from the BPD. and i personally doubt he had that much alone time with JBR.. JMO
 
as per the child's blanket and the semen, i'd say it's just a blanket and he may have used it to sleep and masturbate or have sex with GF.........

i have heard of very little interest in JB jr. from the BPD. and i personally doubt he had that much alone time with JBR.. JMO
Plus an adult Dr. Seuss book promoting nudity. Any teen would be able to get more graphic magazines. A Dr. Seuss book, an author kids are familiar with would be used for grooming.
 

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