Israel Keyes: General Discussion

[MesquiteO21]

Israel had been raised Mormon

I think he was raised Amish. not morman

It's a little confusing but all sources I've seen agree that at least in the beginning his parents were Mormon when he was born. It appears they evolved into white supremacism and the Christian Identity church as Israel grew up. I think in the last few years of his life his mom and sisters were kind of Amish? I'm not entirely sure what their religious affiliation was, but the podcast does at times seem to insinuate that his mother was "Amish lite"

 

[Falling Down]

It's a little confusing but all sources I've seen agree that at least in the beginning his parents were Mormon when he was born. It appears they evolved into white supremacism and the Christian Identity church as Israel grew up. I think in the last few years of his life his mom and sisters were kind of Amish? I'm not entirely sure what their religious affiliation was, but the podcast does at times seem to insinuate that his mother was "Amish lite"

Could be an Amish sect, the one sister lives just north of me, around Harlan, IN. Lots of Amish and Mennonite in and around Harlan.

 

[StevePI]

From my reading, he only started killing AFTER his military deployment, so it could also be that he became desensitized & further disturbed while serving.

Not to be disrespectful to soldiers, but when ex-military guys go off, they go off BIG. Tim McVeigh, Christopher Dorner, Israel Keyes, Charles Whitman, Robert Lee Yates, Berkowitz, Eddie Ray Routh, Dean Corll, Jeffrey Dahmer, Dennis Rader, Leonard Lake & Arthur Shawcross all served in the military at one point, and that's just a few off the list. Could be that violent creeps are drawn to the military life due to the violence and excitement, but I think there's also a downplayed trauma that takes place & permanently changes a person after going to war. IMO, war is more the "cause" than the "effect" when it comes to violence here in civilian land.

MOO of course.

Keyes I know never saw combat. Don't think Dahmer did either.

 

[StevePI]

From my reading, he only started killing AFTER his military deployment, so it could also be that he became desensitized & further disturbed while serving.

Not to be disrespectful to soldiers, but when ex-military guys go off, they go off BIG. Tim McVeigh, Christopher Dorner, Israel Keyes, Charles Whitman, Robert Lee Yates, Berkowitz, Eddie Ray Routh, Dean Corll, Jeffrey Dahmer, Dennis Rader, Leonard Lake & Arthur Shawcross all served in the military at one point, and that's just a few off the list. Could be that violent creeps are drawn to the military life due to the violence and excitement, but I think there's also a downplayed trauma that takes place & permanently changes a person after going to war. IMO, war is more the "cause" than the "effect" when it comes to violence here in civilian land.

MOO of course.

Keyes I know never saw combat. Don't think Dahmer did either as he was a combat medic stationed in Germany. Rader was in the Air Force so did not see direct combat.

 

[Joe Friday]

Seen the 48 Hours episode on Keyes last night. FBI reveals new evidence in hopes of identifying unknown victims of serial killer


The 11 drawings of skulls in his own blood that were found under his bed after his suicide, was interesting. Investigators think each drawing represented one of his victims. I would agree.

Link to picture of skulls: https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub.../ab234c364a8b53cd509fcd46edbd32b6/keyes01.jpg

JMO

 

[dotr]

Seen the 48 Hours episode on Keyes last night. FBI reveals new evidence in hopes of identifying unknown victims of serial killer


The 11 drawings of skulls in his own blood that were found under his bed after his suicide, was interesting. Investigators think each drawing represented one of his victims. I would agree.

Link to picture of skulls: https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub.../ab234c364a8b53cd509fcd46edbd32b6/keyes01.jpg

JMO

Some of the crosses on the foreheads of the skulls seem to be upside down, if so, what might that suggest?
From first link..

These skulls, drawn by serial killer Israel Keyes in his own blood, were found under his bed in his jail cell. The FBI is making them public for the first time. It is believed Keyes killed 11 people, as represented by the 11 skulls. FBI
''The skulls were drawn in Israel Keyes' own blood.

Peter Van Sant: You have 11 skulls. What does this mean?

Jolene Goeden: I think this is the entirety of — of his crimes.

Katherine Nelson: And it indicates that there are seven victims we don't have identified.

Prior to his death, Keyes had pointed the FBI to another victim.

ISRAEL KEYES [audio interview, May 16, 2012]: There's one in New York.

He refused to provide that victim's name, but investigators believe it happened when Keyes took a road trip through New York State in the spring of 2009.

So, they combed through missing persons reports and Keyes' computer.

ASST. U.S. ATTORNEY KEVIN FELDIS [audio interview, October 22, 2012]: Is this the person buried in New York?

ISRAEL KEYES: No.

KEVIN FELDIS: Her name was on your computer.

ISRAEL KEYES: Which computer? Mine?

And when they confronted him with photos, one in particular rattled him: it was a photo of a woman named Debra Feldman.

Frank Russo: Given the way he looked at it and he started shaking a little bit, I would say she is definitely one of his victims.''

 

[imstilla.grandma]

A meticulous serial killer, skulls drawn in blood, and a search to identify the victims -- who has Israel Keyes killed?
FBI reveals new evidence in hopes of identifying unknown victims of serial killer

 

[Murkywaters]

FBI reveals new evidence in hopes of identifying unknown victims of serial killer Here's the transcript from the episode.

- Debra J. Feldman – The Charley Project The FBI believes the 2009 victim was Debra Feldman missing from
Hackensack, NJ.

- At least one body was disposed of in Lake Crescent in Washington.

- He spent time in Healdsburg, CA in May of 2007 and a single-person kayak while there, Keyes had talked to investigators about disposing bodies using boats and kayaks.

- In 2007 he drove up the Alcan Highway that goes through Canada to Alaska, he would sometimes travel to Montreal. ''Canadian victims don't count'' according to him

- Keyes also buried one of his kill caches in Wyoming near the Green river, the FBI has a strong suspicion that he may have a victim in that area.

 

[Skully]

I noticed the "goat" in the upside star which could be a pentagram. The goat is considered a sign of the Devil, and sacrifice comes to mind. Funny he took the time to draw that too.

 

[Iwatchingeye]

A meticulous serial killer, skulls drawn in blood, and a search to identify the victims -- who has Israel Keyes killed?
FBI reveals new evidence in hopes of identifying unknown victims of serial killer

Again the FBI appeals to the public for information, just like the last time in August of 2013, they give just enough of their information to prick the public's interest again. They release the information about the 11 skull drawings but the agent has a huge sheet she is reading from with locations and details. Release that. Release everything you know if you want the public to help. There is no trial to jeopardize so release what is known. EVERYTHING

 

[Knox]

I noticed the "goat" in the upside star which could be a pentagram. The goat is considered a sign of the Devil, and sacrifice comes to mind. Funny he took the time to draw that too.

I wondered what the significance of the Goat and the skull "we are one" could be?

I followed the Samantha Koenig case from the beginning. We know Sam was sexually assaulted, could that be the "we are one" reference?

 

[MesquiteO21]

Again the FBI appeals to the public for information, just like the last time in August of 2013, they give just enough of their information to prick the public's interest again. They release the information about the 11 skull drawings but the agent has a huge sheet she is reading from with locations and details. Release that. Release everything you know if you want the public to help. There is no trial to jeopardize so release what is known. EVERYTHING

I know they have a more detailed timeline of his travels than the one they released publicly. If you look at that one (easy to find if you just google Israel Keyes timeline), there are a lot of gaps. They’ve said they haven’t been able to account for some dates, but it’s also true that they admitted to having a more detailed one that is private/internal for the FBI. It’s weird that they won’t release it, considering like you said, there’s no trial to jeopardize.

I suppose they maybe have good reason for keeping it internal, but I can’t really imagine what that would be.

for example, the public timeline has him in Minnesota only once, and supposedly just as a conduit to get to ND. However, in the book “American Predator”, Maureen Callahan found information that the FBI noted a handful of states that were significant to Keyes in which he spent a decent amount of time, one of those being MN. But they’re only willing to mention one time he was in the state, just passing through?

He had to have killed someone here and I don’t know why they wouldn’t release more info on the chance it may jog someone’s memory. (I mentioned this info in the Brandon Swanson thread because after reading “American Predator” I just couldn’t shake the feeling of BS possibly being a Keyes victim).

 

[The First Article]

Israel Keyes thought his other personality was Satan/a demon.

He liked maps and low key taunted those questioning him with twisted facts a few times.

He gave a the location of a victim in Lake Crescent. Based on his behaviour, I suspect the male-female victims were put into Crescent Lake. That's why he was so amused with giving Lake Crescent away. I also think he likely did something sexually horrifying to the male victim, hence some of his negotiations that it wouldn't come out

Crescent Lake is near Devil's Spit. Lake Crescent is closer to where he lived and is near two places named "Twin" and "Shadow." He made oblique references to his shadowy self no one knew. It also allowed him to toy with those questioning him.

Green River - likely spot for a buried killer cache for him to use. Green River Killer.

There are likely killer caches in locations that have some significance related to his maps and locations that have similar assocations.

His trip up to Cache Creek, BC is close to and can take you by Hell's Gate.

Where he rented a boat in the San Juan is a nice day trip to the islands there. I'd venture he was scoping out Victim Island to take a victim to. I'd look to other routes and places he has been to be linked together by references to demons/satan/devils or other serial killers who professed a similar view of themselves as he "matured" into being serial killer.

*edit: swapped Lake Crescent and Crescent Lake where I mixed them.

 

[The First Article]

The Alcan has long been described by those on it as the Highway to Hell.

The World-famous Alaska Highway

"Keyes did not have a particular type of victim. It was more about the circumstance which presented itself"

Makah influence - while it is incorrect interpretation there is an idea that if you are a hunter in the right frame of mind and whose spirit is aligned properly a whale will give itself to you. While this may not be how those of right mind would interpret this, it certainly fits with IK perspective.

 

[The First Article]

We are one - possibly means more than one victim but he thinks of it as one event. It didn't count as two kills to him. This may be the couple in Vermont.

The upside down pentagram one - think he is saying that he completed a pentagram of kills or a set up for one. NY, Maine, Vermont states? This is not one kill - this is five that are part of one series he grouped together. The lady in NJ may be one of these five not a singleton. You linking him to one of these might have been why he trembled. It wasn't out of fear.

Fifth may be him having gouged out eyes. Ninth cried.

 

[Justin R]

The "upside down pentagram one" is the logo for the Church of Satan. There was a recent theory posited on Crime Junkies patreon account that suggests that there are 11 Israel Keyes and that it wouldn't matter that Keyes was caught and killed himself because there were others out there to carry on his crimes. Interestingly, I recently heard in an interview on Soundcloud that Israel made a request of the USAO to tell him what the average number of deaths in federal death penalty cases was. In the next interview, Feldis (US Attorney) comes back with a case for a defendant named "Kobani Savage", with Savage's number being.....12. At this point and going forward, it seems to me Israel and the USAO and FBI become enamored with the "less than a dozen" narrative that quite frankly no one believes. The skull drawings could potentially be a way for Israel to stop the investigation @ those 11 or 12 potential victims.

 

[Justin R]

Also, all 25 hours of audio of the FBI/USAO interviews of Keyes were removed from Soundcloud overnight....Does anyone have these audio recordings? If so, I would be most appreciative if someone would share those with me. It will be a huge wrench in my investigation if I cannot get those recordings. I've been beating myself up all morning for not downloading them when I had the chance

 

[Iwatchingeye]

Also, all 25 hours of audio of the FBI/USAO interviews of Keyes were removed from Soundcloud overnight....Does anyone have these audio recordings? If so, I would be most appreciative if someone would share those with me. It will be a huge wrench in my investigation if I cannot get those recordings. I've been beating myself up all morning for not downloading them when I had the chance

I think you can find them all on the FBI website along with their transcript.
Federal Bureau of Investigation

 

[VLope23]

Hello everyone, new guy here.

I just started listening to the True Crime BS podcast a couple days ago and finished the Israel Keyes series today. I’ve been fascinated with the cases, but one in particular caught my attention today.

The one I’m referring to is James Lamar Tidwell, who went missing from Rusk County, Texas. The reason this caught my attention is because of the amount of similarities to another missing persons case. The parents of a friend of mine live in Rusk county, on September 26th, 2018 his mom went missing. I’m a little rusty on the details so I could be wrong on a few small details but feel free to correct me if you read about the case and find anything different.

Her name is/was Kimberly Flint. Her husband came home to find that Kim and her vehicle were not there, but her purse and phone were still there. She hardly ever left the house, I believe she had slight agoraphobia, but also she had talked to her husband a little earlier and asked him to pick up some food on his way home.

Her vehicle was found abandoned on the side of Highway 84, and appeared that it had side swiped the guard rail, but she was nowhere to be found, and to this day she has not been found. Her glasses were found left inside her vehicle, exactly like when James’s vehicle was discovered.

James went missing with very similar circumstances, vehicle abandoned on the side of the highway, left his glasses in the vehicle, and both of these were in Rusk county. I know a lot of people think Keyes is responsible for James’s disappearance, and obviously Keyes was already dead when Kim went missing, but the fact that so many details are identical, it really makes me wonder if the same person is responsible for both abductions.

They conducted quite a few searches for Kim but never found anything at all, it was like she just vanished right out of her car.

What do you guys think? James went missing sometime in late February of 2012, Kim went missing in late September of 2018. I’ll post a link to a story about my friends mom Kimberly Flint below.

1 Year Later: Kimberly Flint still missing from Rusk County

and here is a link for an article about James’s disappearance.

VANISHED: James Lamar Tidwell

 

[Iwatchingeye]

Hello everyone, new guy here.

I just started listening to the True Crime BS podcast a couple days ago and finished the Israel Keyes series today. I’ve been fascinated with the cases, but one in particular caught my attention today.

The one I’m referring to is James Lamar Tidwell, who went missing from Rusk County, Texas. The reason this caught my attention is because of the amount of similarities to another missing persons case. The parents of a friend of mine live in Rusk county, on September 26th, 2018 his mom went missing. I’m a little rusty on the details so I could be wrong on a few small details but feel free to correct me if you read about the case and find anything different.

Her name is/was Kimberly Flint. Her husband came home to find that Kim and her vehicle were not there, but her purse and phone were still there. She hardly ever left the house, I believe she had slight agoraphobia, but also she had talked to her husband a little earlier and asked him to pick up some food on his way home.

Her vehicle was found abandoned on the side of Highway 84, and appeared that it had side swiped the guard rail, but she was nowhere to be found, and to this day she has not been found. Her glasses were found left inside her vehicle, exactly like when James’s vehicle was discovered.

James went missing with very similar circumstances, vehicle abandoned on the side of the highway, left his glasses in the vehicle, and both of these were in Rusk county. I know a lot of people think Keyes is responsible for James’s disappearance, and obviously Keyes was already dead when Kim went missing, but the fact that so many details are identical, it really makes me wonder if the same person is responsible for both abductions.

They conducted quite a few searches for Kim but never found anything at all, it was like she just vanished right out of her car.

What do you guys think? James went missing sometime in late February of 2012, Kim went missing in late September of 2018. I’ll post a link to a story about my friends mom Kimberly Flint below.

1 Year Later: Kimberly Flint still missing from Rusk County

and here is a link for an article about James’s disappearance.

VANISHED: James Lamar Tidwell

Since I read about James on Facebook I thought it was IK. James is my cousin's husband's uncle. I sent James's sister who has been very publicly looking for answers a link to WS and specifically IK threads.