OR OR - Union Co, Finley Creek Jane Doe, UnsFem 14-25, UP11902, preg, on wooded hillside, Aug'78

[Two for the road]

The new recon looks a lot like Roxanne Sims. I know she's been suggested before, and there really isn't a way to rule her in or out with this UID.

 

[TmmEye]

So I want to note this:

I’m sure you guys know this, but human hair takes at least 2 years to fully decompose.I know the reports say she died in 75’ or 76’ but I think she died probably 2 months - 2 years before her discovery in Oregon.

IMO

 

[Bit of hope]

If you look at this video Graphic! transforming the skull to the recon it looks like there is a little light brownish (or whatever color you would name it, sandy, blondish brown) hair left...looking IMO short en somewhat curly.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=681875075713776

 

[Andreee]

The new recon looks a lot like Roxanne Sims. I know she's been suggested before, and there really isn't a way to rule her in or out with this UID.

yes she does look like Roxanne Sims!

 

[TmmEye]

Looking at the skull’s hair - I think she may have had her hair permed before her death.

 

[Rootje]

Looking at the skull’s hair - I think she may have had her hair permed before her death.

In that case there should be a hairdresser who saw her in the time leading up to her death, right?

 

[carbuff]

Looking at the skull’s hair - I think she may have had her hair permed before her death.

Either that or naturally somewhat curly. I don't think they could tell the difference even with detailed analysis.

 

[TmmEye]

Either that or naturally somewhat curly. I don't think they could tell the difference even with detailed analysis.

I studied the curls carefully. Natural curls tend to be more spread out, whereas permed hair tends to have much smaller, curled locks.

 

[Romulus]

Great reconstruction, good news.

 

[Bit of hope]

I studied the curls carefully. Natural curls tend to be more spread out, whereas permed hair tends to have much smaller, curled locks.

If there was anyone who could have studied the remains and the hair good, it would be the group seeing her skull and recreating her face/recon....I think the video is to blurry to say something about the hair being naturally curled or had a perm treatment.

 

[JasonFutchLakeCityFL]

I submitted Roxanne Sims for a possible comparison. Unfortunately, Roxanne has no dentals. Dr. Vance has ruled her out.

 

[Al Ka]

Someone online suggested under my post on this case 19 year old Debra Ann Wilhite missing since 1974, possibly pregnant. Her details are quite interesting with relation to this case and I do think there is also some resemblance with the sketch.

Jason is it possible to check it out?

Details - Debra Ann Wilhite – The Charley Project

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I see a lot of similarities in the nose.

 

[bombardier]

Someone online suggested under my post on this case 19 year old Debra Ann Wilhite missing since 1974, possibly pregnant. Her details are quite interesting with relation to this case and I do think there is also some resemblance with the sketch.

Jason is it possible to check it out?

Details - Debra Ann Wilhite – The Charley Project

very facially similar imo! OR and Indiana are pretty far away but if she was truly taken by a trucker then i don't discount the distance. Wonder if they know how pregnant she was at the time since the fetus was estimated at (almost) full term (says 'may' be pregnant so probably not third trimester?)

 

[JasonFutchLakeCityFL]

Someone online suggested under my post on this case 19 year old Debra Ann Wilhite missing since 1974, possibly pregnant. Her details are quite interesting with relation to this case and I do think there is also some resemblance with the sketch.

Jason is it possible to check it out?

Details - Debra Ann Wilhite – The Charley Project

Hey thank you for this.

Mel ran it by us, and we examined it. It says that Debra may have been missing molars. If that’s the case, she can’t be our Jane Doe because she had all of her teeth except for the flipper she had. But we do still plan to submit as a possible match. Other than that, she would be a perfect candidate for submission.

 

[carbuff]

very facially similar imo! OR and Indiana are pretty far away but if she was truly taken by a trucker then i don't discount the distance. Wonder if they know how pregnant she was at the time since the fetus was estimated at (almost) full term (says 'may' be pregnant so probably not third trimester?)

If she was indeed heading to California, as was suspected at the time, she could have lived there for a few months before going to Oregon, or maybe changed her mind and went to Oregon instead. It's a long distance but a straight route via I-80 and I-84 خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[ks-ch]

@JasonFutchLakeCityFL
Hi, Jason, could you please elaborate on how a comparison/exclusion is made when an unidentified person doesn't have DNA data but has for example dentals or fingerprint and a possible match doesn't have dentals, but has DNA data. And vice versa (I mean, whatever variable that does not allow for a direct comparison). I am baffled to be honest...

 

[Melt71]

I’m sure Jason will elaborate but I believe they do a comparison of whatever is in the file (remember LE often withhold things from the public record that we see). Then try to determine the likelihood to a high degree of certainty to say yay/nay. There are cases where they say someone cannot be ruled in or out.

 

[Peskysleuth]

Hey thank you for this.

Mel ran it by us, and we examined it. It says that Debra may have been missing molars. If that’s the case, she can’t be our Jane Doe because she had all of her teeth except for the flipper she had. But we do still plan to submit as a possible match. Other than that, she would be a perfect candidate for submission.

My apologies if I am mistaken, but doesn't the dental report for the Jane Doe show she's missing molars?

 

[Captain Beck]

@JasonFutchLakeCityFL
Hi, Jason, could you please elaborate on how a comparison/exclusion is made when an unidentified person doesn't have DNA data but has for example dentals or fingerprint and a possible match doesn't have dentals, but has DNA data. And vice versa (I mean, whatever variable that does not allow for a direct comparison). I am baffled to be honest...

I´m not Jason but I might be able to contribute.

Establishing identity means that an unidentified body and a person share characteristics in the same features or identifiers to such a degree that all other persons can be (reasonably) excluded. To which degree depends on the situation, if it´s an open or closed case. An open case means that the body can be anyone (such as a male body found in the woods, it can be any male). A closed case means that the unidentified body belongs to someone in a defined/limited set of possibles, eg the passenger list of a crashed airplane.

This means that the pre-mortem identifiers of a person (DNA, dentals, fingerprints etc) have to be available for the body as well and be of sufficient quality. The quality of DNA, fingerprints etc taken from a body can vary greatly. You usually compare the same identifiers (DNA to DNA, dentals to dentals etc). If you have DNA and dentals from a person but only dentals from a body, that might be enough to establish identity based on dentals alone (or exclude someone). If not, you can make a tentative identification but you haven´t identified the body as belonging to that person but you have something to work with and other identifiers (eg x-rays, clothing, jewelry or other items, scars) can be used or you try to get a DNA sample that can be used. Today´s technology in DNA is amazing and it keeps getting better (I don´t work with DNA but others might give a better description).
It also depends on what kind of case it is, open or closed.

This was a simplified description and I hope it makes sense and wasn´t too long.