ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #31

[neesaki]

Does anyone remember when Klein stated that the parents were caught at a sex shop buying a clone my willie within the first week Deorr was missing? Looking for a link to the info. Thanks, Kali

I don’t recall hearing anything like this. Do you really mean a “clone my willie”, or is that a typo? I’m asking because I’ve never heard of that either, and TBH am afraid to ask what it is.

 

[sassyblue]

I was going to say the same thing, Neesaki then thought no way...it can't mean what it sounds like. I am afraid to ask too. Some things are just better left unknown.

I never heard that snippet either and I thought I read and listened to everything on Klein's page.

What on earth would that have to do with lil Deorr's disappearance, anyway?

 

[neesaki]

I was going to say the same thing, Neesaki then thought no way...it can't mean what it sounds like. I am afraid to ask too. Some things are just better left unknown.

I never heard that snippet either and I thought I read and listened to everything on Klein's page.

What on earth would that have to do with lil Deorr's disappearance, anyway?

I guess if true, would be more evidence they weren’t concerned at all about little Deorr. Sickening, huh.

 

[Onebest]

IE the bones found. I remember reading they belonged to a dog. Just speculating because I don't have a link but IF that is correct then the ever famous cadaver dog utilized hit on animal remains......something forbidden in the cadaver dog training world. JMO

 

[TXDishes]

I posted this in Reddit, but no one responded. I posted there simply because there is a fabulous timeline there, and I couldn't sleep thinking about this case. Tell me what you think.

***
I had a thought about this case. What if the problem is in the timeline? What if the child went missing during the night before?

The parents slept in the suburban, supposedly with Deorr Jr. What if they got a little romantic, decided to put sleeping Deorr just outside the vehicle, and fell asleep themselves?

Any tragedy that befell him then is say, 14 hours off on the timeline. Or more, as much as 16.

What would that have changed in the search effort? I would guess the radius would be much larger.

It would pull a lot of the inconsistencies together. The parents would insist they were telling the truth - just not the whole truth. They wouldn't think they had committed a crime, except afterwards in lying to the police. Besides that, they still wouldn't know if Grandpa and Isaac were involved. Isaac would still have no idea, and his recollection of Deorr would still be accurate. If there was blood on a vehicle, it still could be from this. Maybe that's also why the mom is so attached to the blanket. Maybe he wasn't even wearing the boots.

So then I think, why lie? Because it's child endangerment. It's a felony in most states. And they probably didn't think it mattered in finding him, until it was too late. Then it became another crime, because they hindered an investigation. And they could STILL be justifying it to themselves.

I don't know.

***

Mom even said he was wearing pajama bottoms, which seems unusual for a day camping and going to the store. Maybe they have convinced themselves that it wouldn't have changed anything in the search.

 

[TobyWong*]

I posted this in Reddit, but no one responded. I posted there simply because there is a fabulous timeline there, and I couldn't sleep thinking about this case. Tell me what you think.

***

I had a thought about this case. What if the problem is in the timeline? What if the child went missing during the night before?

The parents slept in the suburban, supposedly with Deorr Jr. What if they got a little romantic, decided to put sleeping Deorr just outside the vehicle, and fell asleep themselves?

Any tragedy that befell him then is say, 14 hours off on the timeline. Or more, as much as 16.

What would that have changed in the search effort? I would guess the radius would be much larger.

It would pull a lot of the inconsistencies together. The parents would insist they were telling the truth - just not the whole truth. They wouldn't think they had committed a crime, except afterwards in lying to the police. Besides that, they still wouldn't know if Grandpa and Isaac were involved. Isaac would still have no idea, and his recollection of Deorr would still be accurate. If there was blood on a vehicle, it still could be from this. Maybe that's also why the mom is so attached to the blanket. Maybe he wasn't even wearing the boots.

So then I think, why lie? Because it's child endangerment. It's a felony in most states. And they probably didn't think it mattered in finding him, until it was too late. Then it became another crime, because they hindered an investigation. And they could STILL be justifying it to themselves.

I don't know.

***

Mom even said he was wearing pajama bottoms, which seems unusual for a day camping and going to the store. Maybe they have convinced themselves that it wouldn't have changed anything in the search.

I respectfully say I don't see getting "romantic" with a sleeping child in vehicle would've been an issue for the parents. Imo. It would've been more work for them to put him outside than they would put effort in to or care to. Imo

 

[neesaki]

It's hard to fathom how this baby still hasn't been found. For that precious baby, Deorr Kunz, Jr. From all of us who truly care about you.

 

[charminglane]

Some day.

 

[dalsglen]

Almost 5 years, I truly can't believe it.

 

[TXDishes]

I respectfully say I don't see getting "romantic" with a sleeping child in vehicle would've been an issue for the parents. Imo. It would've been more work for them to put him outside than they would put effort in to or care to. Imo

Maybe you are right. I can still see it though, to keep from waking him up. I just keep thinking about mom's attachment to the blanket.

Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate it.

 

[Flight154]

I wonder..... have they ever thought to search along the route they took up there? Easy to over look something if you are looking in the wrong place.....jmo

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Forgive me if I say anything here that is frowned upon.

I just found this site a few days ago after seeing a documentary that covered this case, and have been reading through some of the threads. But it's been so long, and there has been so much discussion I'll probably never be able to read it all.

I'll continue reading the older threads as I have time; but would just like to ask a few questions now:

1) Has it ever been established the baby was not in the tent with IR while everyone was searching? The fact he was not a family member, his tent was right there, and he apparently didn't join the search seems really odd to me.

2) Has anything proven to belong to him (the child) ever been found? Any clothing or candy wrappers or other artifacts?

3) Does anyone know if Grandpa had ever babysat him before? I kinda figure he belonged to the generation of men who spent very little -or no- time with small children, and he might not have had any real understanding what was being asked of him...and so he might've failed to really pay any attention at all. That would open the possibility the child was gone far longer than the parents thought before they started calling for help.

4) Did they ever do a professional search wider than the initial two miles?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Forgive me if I say anything here that is frowned upon.

I just found this site a few days ago after seeing a documentary that covered this case, and have been reading through some of the threads. But it's been so long, and there has been so much discussion I'll probably never be able to read it all.

I'll continue reading the older threads as I have time; but would just like to ask a few questions now:

1) Has it ever been established the baby was not in the tent with IR while everyone was searching? The fact he was not a family member, his tent was right there, and he apparently didn't join the search seems really odd to me.

2) Has anything proven to belong to him (the child) ever been found? Any clothing or candy wrappers or other artifacts?

3) Does anyone know if Grandpa had ever babysat him before? I kinda figure he belonged to the generation of men who spent very little -or no- time with small children, and he might not have had any real understanding what was being asked of him...and so he might've failed to really pay any attention at all. That would open the possibility the child was gone far longer than the parents thought before they started calling for help.

4) Did they ever do a professional search wider than the initial two miles?

Welcome @UrsulaWrenn. It's all so long ago the details of what was official and what was speculation have blurred. But in answer to your questions, from what I can recall:

1) I don't think that scenario has ever been brought up. I also don't know if it's true that Isaac didn't help with the search. It would seem the parents may have tried to insinuate blame, but I'd say the general consensus is that Isaac is not smart enough to have hidden any wrongdoing. Plus, he didn't have a car, and none of them left the campsite before all the police and family turned up. We think there's a good possibility all of the adults were inebriated the night before (despite IR and Gpa being in AA) and slept in / felt ill the next day.

2) Nope, nothing conclusive. Some very similar clothing to what he was wearing was found (in the parents garage, I think, boots and a camo top or pants?) but it never went any further that we know of.

3) Not sure but seems unlikely as there were more immediate (and younger, healthier) family members available to help out. I know what you're saying though, I wouldn't have left my young children with my father-in-law because he just wouldn't have thought to focus on them, or be mindful of their capability to hurt themselves!

4) Another one I don't know. I don't recall hearing about other searches, but I assume the police/SAR must have searched the route from home to campsite.

Hopefully someone else will come along with their take on these things!!

 

[ReadySet]

You said you weren't very familiar with the case. Recommend you keep learning more. I think your opinions will change.
JMO

I know the parents are always under intense scrutiny when anything happens to a child...but they don't stop being people or parents. If, by that time, he'd been gone for days, I'm not surprised if they needed to focus on happier things to keep their sanity.

I'm not saying the parents weren't involved in whatever happened to the child -I don't think there's enough info to judge that; but everyone grieves differently, and everyone has to find ways to cope. It doesn't do the baby any good whatsoever for the parents to become so overcome with grief they can't take care of each other, and the Mom had other children to think of, too.

Further, I suspect if they had been seen in any other kind of store, buying anything else, there would not be this judgement. Rather, because our society looks askance at adult products, this particular shopping trip is seen as "news" and a way for the public to add a bit of extra-judicial punishment to someone who has not been convicted of any crime.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

You said you weren't very familiar with the case. Recommend you keep learning more. I think your opinions will change.
JMO

You're right; I'm not very familiar and am -right now- reading here and watching various videos and such to learn more about it.

While my opinion about many things might change, I doubt I'll ever be very happy with the "trial by media" a lot of people go through. When the various news agencies decide someone is guilty of something, that person can never do anything again that isn't interpreted through the lens of evil.

Crying? It's "crocodile tears", "just play acting", and "Oscar worthy, but we're not fooled".
Not crying? It's "cold hearted", "heartless", "in utter denial", and "no signs of remorse".

Still searching? "Whatta show!", "Making sure no one else finds him", and "neglecting their other duties".
Not searching? "How could they leave?", "Where ARE they?", "How dare they eat, sleep, work....".

It's the very reason the media can taint the jury pool for an entire county or beyond.

Unless we -as a society- expect people who have lost a child to just instantly suicide themselves, those people have to continue to live. They have to eat, sleep, shower, work, shop, and attend to all of their other needs -and they don't have any obligation to rearrange their priorities to suit the sensibilities of those who are not standing in their shoes.

TL;DR: Shopping -even at Spencer's- isn't illegal, isn't cause for someone to call the police, and does nothing to enlighten us to the whereabouts of the baby. It just publicly flogs parents who may be entirely innocent and don't deserve any more pain or shame piled on.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

Has anyone compiled a list of all the parent's inconsistent statements? At least the ones made publicly?

 

[katydid23]

Has anyone compiled a list of all the parent's inconsistent statements? At least the ones made publicly?

There are some lists comp0lied of their many inconsistent stories and statements. Klein, the private investigator made one I believe.

And many others have been discussed here. There are so many. The sheriff that originally investigated the c asa was baffled and frustrated by all of the inconsistent stories.

Little things, like both parents giving totally different versions of breakfast that morning. One says they got up early and made breakfast, scrambled eggs and bacon. And the other says they all slept late and ate cereal. [two examples that are not exact because I cannot remember the details now, but that is there type of inconsistencies their interviews were riddled with.]

ENDLESS inconsistencies about their day trip to the town. NOTHING that they said was. corroborated by the people in town. They told stories about the store clerk, playing with the baby in the market---she denied ever doing so, saying she didnt even see a baby with them.

Dad told long anecdote about the Coors delivery truck driver---how the driver let Lil Deor sit behind the wheel of the delivery truck, in there front of the store lot.

They tracked down the delivery driver---who was shocked because he said none of that ever happened. Number one, he parks in the back, not the front. And number two, he would never let a child get behind the wheel of his work rig. He would be stupid to do so, he would be fired if he ever did so. And he said her never would because he could lose his license.

There are so many things like that. When the sheriff asked why they were in town for so long, just to grab tampons and get gas---they said they got turned around in town and were lost for awhile.

In a documentary they showed the silliness of that excuse. The town is literally a block or. two of tiny storefronts. That's it. No turns or tiny side streets or anything to 'get lost' in.

They were both lying all the way through their interviews and they couldn't remember hair last lies so they just manufactured more.

As for the sex toys ---I have no problem with people buying sex toys. Not at all. My question is how could a parent be interested in that while their precious baby was lost in the woods? I just don't get it.

 

[squareandrabbet]

There are some lists comp0lied of their many inconsistent stories and statements. Klein, the private investigator made one I believe.

And many others have been discussed here. There are so many. The sheriff that originally investigated the c asa was baffled and frustrated by all of the inconsistent stories.

Little things, like both parents giving totally different versions of breakfast that morning. One says they got up early and made breakfast, scrambled eggs and bacon. And the other says they all slept late and ate cereal. [two examples that are not exact because I cannot remember the details now, but that is there type of inconsistencies their interviews were riddled with.]

ENDLESS inconsistencies about their day trip to the town. NOTHING that they said was. corroborated by the people in town. They told stories about the store clerk, playing with the baby in the market---she denied ever doing so, saying she didnt even see a baby with them.

Dad told long anecdote about the Coors delivery truck driver---how the driver let Lil Deor sit behind the wheel of the delivery truck, in there front of the store lot.

They tracked down the delivery driver---who was shocked because he said none of that ever happened. Number one, he parks in the back, not the front. And number two, he would never let a child get behind the wheel of his work rig. He would be stupid to do so, he would be fired if he ever did so. And he said her never would because he could lose his license.

There are so many things like that. When the sheriff asked why they were in town for so long, just to grab tampons and get gas---they said they got turned around in town and were lost for awhile.

In a documentary they showed the silliness of that excuse. The town is literally a block or. two of tiny storefronts. That's it. No turns or tiny side streets or anything to 'get lost' in.

They were both lying all the way through their interviews and they couldn't remember hair last lies so they just manufactured more.

As for the sex toys ---I have no problem with people buying sex toys. Not at all. My question is how could a parent be interested in that while their precious baby was lost in the woods? I just don't get it.

plus the prior (?) sheriff’s analysis which, I’m paraphrasing but not by much, one parent was given a total of seven polygraphs and the other five, and nobody they’ve seen has ever come close to doing as badly on a polygraph as Jessica, who could barely pass the baseline question ‘What is your name?’

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

There are some lists comp0lied of their many inconsistent stories and statements. Klein, the private investigator made one I believe.

(snip)

As for the sex toys ---I have no problem with people buying sex toys. Not at all. My question is how could a parent be interested in that while their precious baby was lost in the woods? I just don't get it.

Thank-you! I'll look to see if I can find Klein's list.

I don't know if it would be strange for the parents to want sex or not. Certainly they would want to comfort and be comforted by each other, and the instinctual drive to replace a lost child might be very high indeed -which is probably why we see baby booms after natural disasters.
I think it might also make sense for them to want the intimacy, but want to avoid a pregnancy at any cost, thus the nature of their reported purchase. But, as I've never (Thank the Heavens) been there, I just don't know...and I don't want to judge those who are there without all the facts.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

There are some lists comp0lied of their many inconsistent stories and statements. Klein, the private investigator made one I believe.

(snip)

As for the sex toys ---I have no problem with people buying sex toys. Not at all. My question is how could a parent be interested in that while their precious baby was lost in the woods? I just don't get it.

Thank-you! I'll look to see if I can find Klein's list.

I don't know if it would be strange for the parents to want sex or not. Certainly they would want to comfort and be comforted by each other, and the instinctual drive to replace a lost child might be very high indeed -which is probably why we see baby booms after natural disasters.
I think it might also make sense for them to want the intimacy, but want to avoid a pregnancy at any cost, thus the nature of their reported purchase. But, as I've never (Thank the Heavens) been there, I just don't know...and I don't want to judge those who are there without all the facts.