Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

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Here's a cached excerpt of the urban explorer's experience in the Sherman home. It's from a deleted reddit account. Mods, if this cached account is not allowed, please delete.

"Throwaway account for obvious reasons. I was inside the mansion shortly before its demolition. I'm a photographer of abandoned/vacant places and I suppose my morbid curiosity got the better of me. It took almost a year of waiting, but eventually the conditions became right for me to sneak inside. The power to the house had been cut, construction hoarding went up and the high-tech security cameras that TPS had installed earlier around the property had all been taken down.

I went alone during the day. I wasn't expecting to get inside, but I was happy to find the garage door leading to the basement was unlocked. I rolled it up and went inside. Not wasting any time, I rushed through the dark garage area. I knew the pool was somewhere in the basement, but I wasn't quite ready to experience that just yet. I made my way up a spiral staircase leading to the ground floor instead.

I had already seen the real estate photos before so I had some idea of what to expect inside. Marble floors, nice light, a distinct 80s vibe. I assumed the place would be more or less empty. I figured a lot of stuff would have been taken out by TPS, sent to an auction house or saved by family members, but that wasn't really the case. There was stuff everywhere: furniture, clothes, artwork, books, personal letters, memos, photos of the deceased, the works. Pretty much every room I stepped into had me saying jesus christ out loud to myself, wondering wth I was getting myself into.

That's not to say everything was intact. It was clear that someone else had been through the place looking for items of value or hidden stashes of money. Everything in the master bedroom was overturned with massive holes punched through the walls. The contents of drawers were strewn out on the floor. The main bathroom upstairs had also been ransacked. Piles of cosmetics and clothing strewn all over the floor. The sight of a messy wig is one of those things that I can't unsee.

In an adjacent area, I came across a notepad on a desk in which someone had written out events occurring the during the days leading up to the murders. "(house) showing at 3:30pm" , "dinner at Barberians", etc. It seemed strange that such a thing would still be there and not a room at TPS headquarters along with other items of evidence.

Most of the stuff in the house, including electronics, was from the 80s or 90s and the majority of it was pretty cheap-looking, some of it quite tacky. I didn't come across the sculptures in the basement. In fact, I don't even recall seeing that room, but granted it was pretty dark down there. Some light came in through the garage doors, but that was about it. I did a quick run through the pool where the bodies were found. Needless to say, it isn't something I'd ever want to do again. Such terrible energy. The fact that was in now in complete darkness only made the whole scene that much more sinister. I left shortly after and still get creeped out whenever I think about it.

I only took a handful of photos that day, mostly of the rooms that had been ripped apart, and a few of the areas that don't look much different than the ones depicted in the real estate listings. I'm not sure I'd ever share them online. I'm still a bit rattled by the experience of it all. I'm also still wrestling with my conscience a little because I feel like I crossed a line into something that's far darker than what I'm usually interested in, both as a photographer and as a human being.

TL;DR: I snuck into a murder mansion and saw a bunch of dead people's stuff. "

I wonder if any of the demolition crew that put up the hoarding went into the home after it was closed off to passersby to look for treasures. It sure sounds like it was a mess.
 
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This story would only come to light if and when the "urban explorer' told the media.
Regarding the photographs he took of 'evidence', no doubt the TPS took the similar photos themselves, at least I hope they did.

We also must believe the vacant home of high profile billionaire murder victims was left unsecured and was unarmed with security so that “urban explorers” could come and go as they please.

This story is somewhat reminiscent of the earring on the curb that LE allegedly didn’t notice.
 
In an adjacent area, I came across a notepad on a desk in which someone had written out events occurring the during the days leading up to the murders. "(house) showing at 3:30pm" , "dinner at Barberians", etc. It seemed strange that such a thing would still be there and not a room at TPS headquarters along with other items of evidence.

The Star article also speaks of prescription medicine bottles, mostly belonging to HS. Having in the past few months had a ringside view of a house being demolished and a new one built right next door (fun during a lockdown!), I have a lot of difficulty with the whole notion of "burying" very personal items. Once our nearby house had been demolished, the underlying earth and rubble left were all trucked away before they dug the new basement, presumably to a landfill or dump or some such. I cannot imagine how a family would allow personal items and papers to remain and quite possibly turn up someplace else. I can't help thinking the urban explorer has embroidered the story.
 
Here's a cached excerpt of the urban explorer's experience in the Sherman home. It's from a deleted reddit account. Mods, if this cached account is not allowed, please delete.

"Throwaway account for obvious reasons. I was inside the mansion shortly before its demolition. I'm a photographer of abandoned/vacant places and I suppose my morbid curiosity got the better of me. It took almost a year of waiting, but eventually the conditions became right for me to sneak inside. The power to the house had been cut, construction hoarding went up and the high-tech security cameras that TPS had installed earlier around the property had all been taken down.

I went alone during the day. I wasn't expecting to get inside, but I was happy to find the garage door leading to the basement was unlocked. I rolled it up and went inside. Not wasting any time, I rushed through the dark garage area. I knew the pool was somewhere in the basement, but I wasn't quite ready to experience that just yet. I made my way up a spiral staircase leading to the ground floor instead.

I had already seen the real estate photos before so I had some idea of what to expect inside. Marble floors, nice light, a distinct 80s vibe. I assumed the place would be more or less empty. I figured a lot of stuff would have been taken out by TPS, sent to an auction house or saved by family members, but that wasn't really the case. There was stuff everywhere: furniture, clothes, artwork, books, personal letters, memos, photos of the deceased, the works. Pretty much every room I stepped into had me saying jesus ******* christ out loud to myself, wondering wth I was getting myself into.

That's not to say everything was intact. It was clear that someone else had been through the place looking for items of value or hidden stashes of money. Everything in the master bedroom was overturned with massive holes punched through the walls. The contents of drawers were strewn out on the floor. The main bathroom upstairs had also been ransacked. Piles of cosmetics and clothing strewn all over the floor. The sight of a messy wig is one of those things that I can't unsee.

In an adjacent area, I came across a notepad on a desk in which someone had written out events occurring the during the days leading up to the murders. "(house) showing at 3:30pm" , "dinner at Barberians", etc. It seemed strange that such a thing would still be there and not a room at TPS headquarters along with other items of evidence.

Most of the stuff in the house, including electronics, was from the 80s or 90s and the majority of it was pretty cheap-looking, some of it quite tacky. I didn't come across the sculptures in the basement. In fact, I don't even recall seeing that room, but granted it was pretty dark down there. Some light came in through the garage doors, but that was about it. I did a quick run through the pool where the bodies were found. Needless to say, it isn't something I'd ever want to do again. Such terrible energy. The fact that was in now in complete darkness only made the whole scene that much more sinister. I left shortly after and still get creeped out whenever I think about it.

I only took a handful of photos that day, mostly of the rooms that had been ripped apart, and a few of the areas that don't look much different than the ones depicted in the real estate listings. I'm not sure I'd ever share them online. I'm still a bit rattled by the experience of it all. I'm also still wrestling with my conscience a little because I feel like I crossed a line into something that's far darker than what I'm usually interested in, both as a photographer and as a human being.

TL;DR: I snuck into a murder mansion and saw a bunch of dead people's stuff. "

I wonder if any of the demolition crew that put up the hoarding went into the home after it was closed off to passersby to look for treasures. It sure sounds like it was a mess.

Well I hope TPS is indeed interested. While anonymous sources are somewhat protected, I believe a Judge can order a reporter to turn over details of the source if it’s suspected to involve criminality. Because this writing hints of a very dark and lurid obsession with this house of murder that’s far beyond the norm IMO, including photographing the aftermath of the tragedy. Reading it is downright creepy. JMO.
 
Well I hope TPS is indeed interested. While anonymous sources are somewhat protected, I believe a Judge can order a reporter to turn over details of the source if it’s suspected to involve criminality. Because this writing hints of a very dark and lurid obsession with this house of murder that’s far beyond the norm IMO, including photographing the aftermath of the tragedy. Reading it is downright creepy. JMO.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if members of TPS may also took personal pictures in the house during the many weeks they were in there. TPS should focus on solving the the murders instead of worrying about some guy who may have documented possible evidence that was missed or ignored. If they have time to worry about him that says a lot.
 
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if members of TPS may also took personal pictures in the house during the many weeks they were in there. TPS should focus on solving the the murders instead of worrying about some guy who may have documented possible evidence that was missed or ignored. If they have time to worry about him that says a lot.

Hmm so the unknown trespasser is a hero for outing TPS’s inability to properly investigate a homicide, it’s that simple? It’s not up to me to tell TPS who they should be “worried” about but there’s something totally off about the entire story in my opinion. I know nothing about the identity of the “urban explorer” so I’m not making accusations but the possibility of a perpetrator revisiting a crime scene might tend to attract the attention of police.
 
Hmm so the unknown trespasser is a hero for outing TPS’s inability to properly investigate a homicide, it’s that simple? It’s not up to me to tell TPS who they should be “worried” about but there’s something totally off about the entire story in my opinion. I know nothing about the identity of the “urban explorer” so I’m not making accusations but the possibility of a perpetrator revisiting a crime scene might tend to attract the attention of police.

I don't believe anyone said he/she was a hero.
As for "...outing TPS’s inability to properly investigate a homicide...", I think that has previously been well documented, in this case and others.
It is certainly possible that the perpetrator has been to the house subsequent to the murders. After all, we don't know who he/she/they is/are.
 
I don't believe anyone said he/she was a hero.
As for "...outing TPS’s inability to properly investigate a homicide...", I think that has previously been well documented, in this case and others.
It is certainly possible that the perpetrator has been to the house subsequent to the murders. After all, we don't know who he/she/they is/are.

In this case, the person/s with a greatest vested interest in casting doubt towards the quality of the TPS investigation are future defendant/s hoping to create reasonable doubt.
 
In this case, the person/s with a greatest vested interest in casting doubt towards the quality of the TPS investigation are future defendant/s hoping to create reasonable doubt.

No single person has done that more than KD. Is he a potential defendant?
 
The article was issued by CAP which is a home-grown Canadian racist and bigoted group whose members oppose immigration. They go after J. Trudeau due to his immigration policies.

CAP is self described as “Cultural Action Party represent Canadian citizens who value, and wish to retain, Canada’s traditional identity, heritage and official languages. We stand in direct opposition to globalist forces attempting to undermine and erode our nation’s unique cultural identity.”
Cultural Action Party – Violent Transnational Social Movement Research Project

Off topic ???
 
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It is my understanding that the TPS does not want the Sherman's will(s) and other related documents released to the public. This fall, hopefully, the Supreme Court of Canada will make a final ruling.

If the TPS's reason for keeping these documents sealed was because they felt the documents might expose a motive or the perpetrator(s), I wonder if there is extra pressure on the TPS to make an arrest before the court date?
Or has the TPS put everything on hold until after the Court rules?
 
It is my understanding that the TPS does not want the Sherman's will(s) and other related documents released to the public. This fall, hopefully, the Supreme Court of Canada will make a final ruling.

If the TPS's reason for keeping these documents sealed was because they felt the documents might expose a motive or the perpetrator(s), I wonder if there is extra pressure on the TPS to make an arrest before the court date?
Or has the TPS put everything on hold until after the Court rules?

If the SCC rules the estate files are to be released that’s still not to say they’d be 100% full and complete as often files contain many redactions for various reasons, including if parts pertain to a criminal investigation. CBC recently was successful in getting Search Warrants pertaining to the NS shootings released but the information was heavily redacted for that same reason, the investigation is ongoing.

Motive isn’t proven in a court of law, at best it’s only a theory, and it’d be highly unlikely Barry or Honey named their future murderer in their wills so JMO I can’t see the appeal impacting the timeliness if the investigation at all. It’s a Crown Prosecutor who works with TPS and who ultimately determines if there’s adequate evidence to convict, then TPS facilitates the arrest. If it’s perceived there’s insufficient evidence to convict but the Crown proceeds anyway, the risk is a guilty defendant is found Not Guilty, why some investigations take more time than others.

You might recall the Oland trial, a good example that a strong financial motive doesn’t guarantee a conviction. DO benefited from the death of his father because as at the time his personal financial situation was severely overextended, which the Prosecution alleged was his motive. But he was found Not Guilty because the Judge believed there was reasonable doubt the evidence proved he was the person responsible for committing the murder.
 
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Unless KD is turning over tips and leads to TPS so that an arrest is forthcoming, I disagree he’s done more.

ETA
“When Greenspan has written me, he says that my own sources, who I don’t identify, may be guilty as well.....”
Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

I meant that kd has been the leading voice casting doubt on the quality of the tps investigation.
That doesn’t make him a potential defendant, I’m sure we agree on that.
 
I meant that kd has been the leading voice casting doubt on the quality of the tps investigation.
That doesn’t make him a potential defendant, I’m sure we agree on that.

I think it’d be a stretch to say KD has cast doubt on the quality of the investigation without us knowing the evidence. Didn’t he say he believes an arrest and conviction will eventually occur iirc?
 
I think it’d be a stretch to say KD has cast doubt on the quality of the investigation without us knowing the evidence. Didn’t he say he believes an arrest and conviction will eventually occur iirc?

To be fair, KD was not the only voice to cast doubt on the TPS investigation of the Sherman murders. Other voices, other mass media articles published the same concerns that KD had. It was obvious that other crime journalists thought that the TPS screwed up initially, and it is not a stretch to think many people questioned the initial investigation. There was "evidence" of police tunnel vision (Barry killed Honey) which has been discussed at length on this thread.

Christie Blatchford (who I enjoyed reading) was the only rare exception to question TPS 's handling of the case, and her opinion seemed slanted against the family whom she seemed to regard as the rich and entitled. That was her initial assessment right after the deaths. I wasn't expecting another opinion as the questions arose re the TPS investigation and as expected, she remained silent. JMO
 
To be fair, KD was not the only voice to cast doubt on the TPS investigation of the Sherman murders. Other voices, other mass media articles published the same concerns that KD had. It was obvious that other crime journalists thought that the TPS screwed up initially, and it is not a stretch to think many people questioned the initial investigation. There was "evidence" of police tunnel vision (Barry killed Honey) which has been discussed at length on this thread.

Christie Blatchford (who I enjoyed reading) was the only rare exception to question TPS 's handling of the case, and her opinion seemed slanted against the family whom she seemed to regard as the rich and entitled. That was her initial assessment right after the deaths. I wasn't expecting another opinion as the questions arose re the TPS investigation and as expected, she remained silent. JMO

I think I’ve lost the discussion point. What does the opinion of journalists have to do with an investigation they’re not involved in? As in all investigations, LE never disclose tactics nor evidence during the course of an investigation. But it’s guaranteed if somebody wants to write an opinion piece, glorifying police over an unsolved case isn’t going to attract a whole lot of readership. Speculation, scandal, drama and criticism is what attracts attention, it’s on the front page of any MSM. My main interest in the media is not opinions - it’s “news”.....which I do hope to read one day when charges are laid.

ETA - KDs opinion, fwiw
Q (to KD): Do you think this case will ever be solved?
A: I do. That’s one of the questions I ask Detective Kim. And I’m able to look at his answers four times over two years. This [latest] time he said: “The case is moving along well. It’s very active and we’re cautiously optimistic.” They seem very pleased with whatever this Toronto police intelligence report by civilian analysts told them. That appears to be a very big break in the case.
Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca
 
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I think I’ve lost the discussion point. What does the opinion of journalists have to do with an investigation they’re not involved in? As in all investigations, LE never disclose tactics nor evidence during the course of an investigation. But it’s guaranteed if somebody wants to write an opinion piece, glorifying police over an unsolved case isn’t going to attract a whole lot of readership. Speculation, scandal, drama and criticism is what attracts attention, it’s on the front page of any MSM. My main interest in the media is not opinions - it’s “news”.....which I do hope to read one day when charges are laid.

ETA - KDs opinion, fwiw
Q (to KD): Do you think this case will ever be solved?
A: I do. That’s one of the questions I ask Detective Kim. And I’m able to look at his answers four times over two years. This [latest] time he said: “The case is moving along well. It’s very active and we’re cautiously optimistic.” They seem very pleased with whatever this Toronto police intelligence report by civilian analysts told them. That appears to be a very big break in the case.
Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca


You stated “... In this case, the person/s with a greatest vested interest in casting doubt towards the quality of the TPS investigation are future defendant/s hoping to create reasonable doubt...”
I simply pointed out that kd has been THE leader in casting doubt on the quality of the tps investigation. A good part of his book does exactly that. He has his own reasons for, or “interest in” doing this. Yet i certainly do not consider him a potential defendant.
 
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