Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

[MistyWaters]

You stated “... In this case, the person/s with a greatest vested interest in casting doubt towards the quality of the TPS investigation are future defendant/s hoping to create reasonable doubt...”
I simply pointed out that kd has been THE leader in casting doubt on the quality of the tps investigation. A good part of his book does exactly that. He has his own reasons for, or “interest in” doing this. Yet i certainly do not consider him a potential defendant.

KD is not the firsthand source of any of the reports he’s written that I recall. I don’t appreciate my words being twisted and I stand behind what I wrote. If you don’t agree, that’s okay with me.

 

[ldlager]

KD is not the firsthand source of any of the reports he’s written that I recall. I don’t appreciate my words being twisted and I stand behind what I wrote. If you don’t agree, that’s okay with me.

Respectfully, I Quoted your post directly, and so I am unclear how I twisted your words.
In any event, I don’t think kd is a potential defendant. And I believe kd when he states that he has personally viewed the photos and video taken by the urban explorer.

 

[deugirtni]

Respectfully, I Quoted your post directly, and so I am unclear how I twisted your words.
In any event, I don’t think kd is a potential defendant. And I believe kd when he states that he has personally viewed the photos and video taken by the urban explorer.

Yes, fudging photos is one thing, but it'd be difficult to pull one over on KD with a video, I would think. There is no knowing what condition the home was in at the time of the murders however, - anything really could have taken place between then and when the video and photos were taken.. but it sure seems strange that personal documents and photographs would be found in the home prior to its demolition? It makes me wonder if nothing was nostalgic to the family members. I know that for many, so much is difficult to get rid of when a loved one dies, but I'm getting the opposite impression in this case. I wonder if such items may have been left by the private investigation team?

I can kind of imagine how the family might not want to be bothered disposing of all of the household goods.. even though their value to most people may have been worth it to perhaps give to an estate auction, it would at the same time allow random people to potentially speak publicly about owning this or that which had belonged to the Shermans, and perhaps make up some stories along with it? (ie along the lines of, 'I bought this vase from the estate auction and it had blood on it', or something to that effect.. more fodder for the rumour mill, the family may not have wanted to ever be bothered with such, even if it were a remote possibility?) It's just particularly disturbing knowing that B&H weren't really wasteful, extravagant people, and to see all of their household items demolished along with their home, feels really sad to me. jmo.

 

[MistyWaters]

Respectfully, I Quoted your post directly, and so I am unclear how I twisted your words.
In any event, I don’t think kd is a potential defendant. And I believe kd when he states that he has personally viewed the photos and video taken by the urban explorer.

I don’t understand why you connected KD to what I wrote. He was never directly involved in any of the incidents which potentially could be used to create doubt. As a reporter he wouldn’t become a defence witness, reading aloud his written reports or sections of his book because what he writes would be considered hearsay/secondhand information, maybe even third or just outright gossip depending on his sources. Doubt is created by defence witnesses who testify under oath to what they personally saw, heard or observed, not what somebody else told them about.

 

[Satchie]

It is my understanding that the TPS does not want the Sherman's will(s) and other related documents released to the public. This fall, hopefully, the Supreme Court of Canada will make a final ruling.

If the TPS's reason for keeping these documents sealed was because they felt the documents might expose a motive or the perpetrator(s), I wonder if there is extra pressure on the TPS to make an arrest before the court date?
Or has the TPS put everything on hold until after the Court rules?

Coming in a little late on this, but it's not TPS that has sealed the documents, it's the Sherman estate. Those lawyers are not working for TPS but for the Sherman family.

SCC Grants Appeal for Sealing Order in Sherman Estate | TheCourt.ca

 

[dotr]

Wondering if and/or how, this might affect the investigation going forward?
Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders stepping down next month
''June 8, 2020
Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders is stepping down from his job next month, he announced Monday.''

''Saunders said he made the decision in order to put family first.
“Family is the most important thing to me right now. Sorry if anyone is shocked in a bad way''

 

[ldlager]

Wondering if and/or how, this might affect the investigation going forward?
Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders stepping down next month
''June 8, 2020
Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders is stepping down from his job next month, he announced Monday.''

''Saunders said he made the decision in order to put family first.
“Family is the most important thing to me right now. Sorry if anyone is shocked in a bad way''

Maybe new leadership will provide a new perspective on this case.
Hopefully they don’t just replace him with someone who has been involved in the case

 

[jellybeanz]

The Sherman's deserve Justice!

 

[casesensitive]

Wondering if and/or how, this might affect the investigation going forward?
Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders stepping down next month
''June 8, 2020
Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders is stepping down from his job next month, he announced Monday.''

''Saunders said he made the decision in order to put family first.
“Family is the most important thing to me right now. Sorry if anyone is shocked in a bad way''

It is surprising that Chief Saunders is leaving before his contract runs out early next year. That fact denotes that he has been under extreme stress imo.

Remarks he made points to the stress of having to deal with "political" influences. Handling the pressure from those in power has always been the bane for key people who work for the public, and it transverses across all public entities. Some people are adept at handling it, while others burn out dealing with it. (I would be the burn out type).

It makes me wonder if Saunders really did experience powerful, Liberal political pressure in regard to the Sherman case, and if that ultimately affected the TPS investigation from M/S to M/M. Probably not, but I hope he writes a book someday.

"Asked Monday what he plans to do next, the chief joked “I’m becoming a politician,” a nudge at his dislike of the political elements of the job, and possibly also at his predecessor, Bill Blair, who now serves as Minister of Public Safety in the Trudeau government."

 

[MistyWaters]

I think by the timing of Saunder’s resignation it’s connected to a future opportunity, some sort of appointment regarding racial inequality at the federal level. If so, good for him!

“On Friday, Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders took a knee with protesters and held up a fist in solidarity to show his respect for the cause that they represent.“
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...owntown-toronto-eaton-centre-closed-1.5601670

 

[nuff]

I think by the timing of Saunder’s resignation it’s connected to a future opportunity, some sort of appointment regarding racial inequality at the federal level. If so, good for him!

With all due respect, no way. His was not a strong appointment to begin with, and he has done nothing to reform TPS. Peter Sloly was a better candidate by far; Saunders, although he is a good man and officer, was a compromise.

Very much doubt the Sherman case figures at all in this matter, or that a change at the top will have any bearing on whether it is solved.

 

[WINDSOR]

I think by the timing of Saunder’s resignation it’s connected to a future opportunity, some sort of appointment regarding racial inequality at the federal level. If so, good for him!

“On Friday, Toronto Police Chief Mark Saunders took a knee with protesters and held up a fist in solidarity to show his respect for the cause that they represent.“
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...owntown-toronto-eaton-centre-closed-1.5601670

Saunders was very aware he was going to be replaced, the political overseers did not like him. So much better for him to leave now before being dumped, which is how it would likely be portrayed.
Yes at this time there are some nice job opportunities for him as well if he wants them.

In regards the Sherman's case, the new guy will review it when he comes into the job. I am pretty sure the TPS has a suspect and are just accumulating evidence, before laying charges. No statue of limitations on murder, no rush to get to a courtroom.

 

[casesensitive]

Saunders was very aware he was going to be replaced, the political overseers did not like him. So much better for him to leave now before being dumped, which is how it would likely be portrayed.
Yes at this time there are some nice job opportunities for him as well if he wants them.

In regards the Sherman's case, the new guy will review it when he comes into the job. I am pretty sure the TPS has a suspect and are just accumulating evidence, before laying charges. No statue of limitations on murder, no rush to get to a courtroom.

Unfortunately, with the current uprising and focus on police reform, I can't imagine that the new chief would even have the Sherman case on his mind. I agree with nuff, a new police chief will have no effect on the Sherman case.

I have noticed that Kevin D. has remained silent and hasn't pressured TPS for updates or felt the need to report on the case. I take that as a good sign, that he knows they have a suspect and don't need media attention. JMO and as always "fingers crossed".

 

[nuff]

Unfortunately, with the current uprising and focus on police reform, I can't imagine that the new chief would even have the Sherman case on his mind..

Says a lot about the times that we, and all the speculative articles I've read, have never even contemplated a female chief. (TPS has major issues around race, but equally so around treatment of female officers, and of course the two overlap.)

 

[MistyWaters]

Unfortunately, with the current uprising and focus on police reform, I can't imagine that the new chief would even have the Sherman case on his mind. I agree with nuff, a new police chief will have no effect on the Sherman case.

I agree, the focus on the Sherman case won’t be any greater than where routine investigation leads toward.

As I look at the photos of the unsolved homicide cases, if it were indeed greater, the question could and probably would be asked - why is any one murder victim more or less important than another?

Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect
Homicide
Current Cases
The Homicide section of Specialized Criminal Investigations is responsible for the investigation of all homicides. Typically, when a homicide occurs, a team of Homicide investigators immediately responds and takes charge of that investigation. Ultimately, their goal is to quickly identify and apprehend those responsible for this most serious of crimes. Investigators always want to hear from anyone with any piece of information about these murders.

 

[ldlager]

I agree, the focus on the Sherman case won’t be any greater than where routine investigation leads toward.

As I look at the photos of the unsolved homicide cases, if it were indeed greater, the question could and probably would be asked - why is any one murder victim more or less important than another?

Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect
Homicide
Current Cases
The Homicide section of Specialized Criminal Investigations is responsible for the investigation of all homicides. Typically, when a homicide occurs, a team of Homicide investigators immediately responds and takes charge of that investigation. Ultimately, their goal is to quickly identify and apprehend those responsible for this most serious of crimes. Investigators always want to hear from anyone with any piece of information about these murders.

I think the fact that the homicide squad didn’t “immediately respond and take charge of the Sherman investigation “- despite their guidelines that you have posted - speaks volumes about what tps felt this case really was.
Unfortunately so much time was lost in the early days of this investigation. IMO tps may have some theory of this case, ( many of us do), but they have little to no hard evidence to prove their theory. Imo these murders were planned in advance, and the killer(s) covered their tracks effectively, through prep landing and vigilance. If others were involved and arranged the killing, they planned carefully imo, ensured their alibis were secure, and ensured that any links that they have to the killers would be well covered.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think the fact that the homicide squad didn’t “immediately respond and take charge of the Sherman investigation “- despite their guidelines that you have posted - speaks volumes about what tps felt this case really was.
Unfortunately so much time was lost in the early days of this investigation. IMO tps may have some theory of this case, ( many of us do), but they have little to no hard evidence to prove their theory. Imo these murders were planned in advance, and the killer(s) covered their tracks effectively, through prep landing and vigilance. If others were involved and arranged the killing, they planned carefully imo, ensured their alibis were secure, and ensured that any links that they have to the killers would be well covered.

Regarding the Sherman deaths, what do we know of the crime scene which immediately indicated to TPS an obvious homicide took place?

However as homicide detectives were involved from the onset considering the deaths were viewed as suspicious, I have no idea which guidelines you believe weren’t followed.

Dec 17, 2017
“The statement said homicide detectives have taken the lead on investigating the deaths, which have been classified as “suspicious.” Homicide detectives have been involved in the investigation since Friday.”
Police release cause of death of Barry and Honey Sherman

 

[WINDSOR]

ldlager said "IMO tps may have some theory of this case, ( many of us do), but they have little to no hard evidence to prove their theory."

ldlager, Are you sure the TPS has little or no hard evidence to prove their theory? They may have some evidence, but not enough to be assured of a win in court yet.

One thing the TPS knows for sure is that when charges are laid, that the defendant(s) will probably have the financial resources to hire the very best legal defense team. The prosecution will not be facing some court appointed defense lawyer with minimal resources.

I believe the TPS will take as long as it takes to put together an ironclad case. Then the defense will use every technique possible to delay, defer and eliminate evidence, and witnesses.

 

[dotr]

Just a heads up for anyone taking certain Apotex (and others) drugs for diabetes..
Certain Metformin diabetes drugs recalled due to the presence or possible presence of NDMA - Recalls and safety alerts

More diabetes drugs recalled over contaminant linked to cancer
June 14 2020
''TORONTO -- Pharmaceutical giant Apotex Inc. is voluntarily recalling a certain type of diabetes medication after one of the lots was found to have elevated levels of a contaminant linked to cancer.

On Saturday, Health Canada announced the recall was in effect for Apotex’s prescription metformin drug APO-METFORMIN ER (extended release) 500-milligram tablets.''

 

[MistyWaters]

ldlager said "IMO tps may have some theory of this case, ( many of us do), but they have little to no hard evidence to prove their theory."

ldlager, Are you sure the TPS has little or no hard evidence to prove their theory? They may have some evidence, but not enough to be assured of a win in court yet.

One thing the TPS knows for sure is that when charges are laid, that the defendant(s) will probably have the financial resources to hire the very best legal defense team. The prosecution will not be facing some court appointed defense lawyer with minimal resources.

I believe the TPS will take as long as it takes to put together an ironclad case. Then the defense will use every technique possible to delay, defer and eliminate evidence, and witnesses.

I agree, TPS has no reason to be hasty and I’d presume the past four months of the COVID-19 lockdown has slowed if not halted all ongoing investigations throughout the country.

Just a comment in regards to the initial murder-suicide media story which is often referred to as proof of a botched homicide investigation, not only sometimes here but I notice it expressed in media comments as well. I’m not convinced..I think it was a deliberate tactic especially because the homicide division officially took over the case as soon as the initial autopsy results were available.

Here’s another double homicide staged as a murder-suicide that occurred in the US. LE allowed the M/S rumour to float for 16 months until murder charges were laid against the guilty culprit who resided in the same home, even though there was strong evidence implicating this same person from the onset.

“Maj. Ed O’Carroll of the Fairfax County police said in an interview last month that authorities were premature to label the case a murder-suicide but did not publicly correct the record because it allowed them to investigate the killings without raising Megan Hagan’s suspicions that she was a target of the probe.“
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...31fe74-1437-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html