Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #61

[LadyL]

No kidding. Everyone is so worried about what everyone else is doing. Stay holed up, it’s your choice. I’m going to live my life.

with a mask I hope

 

[mickey2942]

Request that political references, protesters vs. political events be listed together. We really don't need to differentiate between the groups.

This is not supposed to be a political thread, but it certainly seems to be.

 

[LadyL]

Darwinism at its best. Survival of the smartest. Staying at home, watching the folks on TV. My cat and I discussed the stupidity of it all. We saw a dog wagging his tail, with his tongue hanging out, strutting around...really.

And they could all be on the sofa like us.

 

[LadyL]

Here's how it works. Some intelligent people predict that things are going to get worse, for a variety of reasons. They warn and ask for caution, otherwise they fear what the outcome will be.

Days/Weeks later, they are proven correct. Things start to decline, rates of outbreak begin to increase, all following the same pattern as months earlier, and matching the predictions of those intelligent individuals weeks prior.

Are they praised for being correct? Do the masses who poo poo'd the warnings and predictions, suddenly realize the accuracy of those forecasts, and change their beliefs? OF COURSE NOT.

Instead, bring on the excuses. Bring on the explanations. Bring on the "It's Impossible To Go Back Or Remain Stagnant, We Must Move Forward, And Continue Opening Everything Up."

We are a Worldwide Embarrassment.

agreed but there's embarrassments in every country, including mine (Canada)

 

[katydid23]

Perhaps you had some of us on ignore or we didn't say it loudly enough? No one here was applauding. I'm appalled, but I understand why it's happening.

What I keep saying is that all of these mass events will help us understand outdoor crowd transmission. That's the only silver lining.

These are occurring around the world and no government has found a way to stop them, in many nations people are willing to die in the protest itself to get their point across - an intractable problem for centuries. The issues that are bringing people into the streets are really varied, from place to place.

The virus doesn't care what any of us say about it.

And the disenfranchised people now include a lot of younger people who justifiably feel their hopes are dashed/lives are ruined/mot going to plan. It's a pan-global problem. No government is able to control the unrest easily and what's going on in some nations is absolutely terrifying and medieval.

But we don't usually talk about that here. Most don't talk about it at all - we talk about what concerns us immediately about this crisis. I hope this post isn't too political, because that was not my intent.

Anyway, everyone I know personally worries tremendously about the protesters infecting their families and coworkers, and I didn't see the applause or praise. I guess we're in different social universes.

I sure didn't see any praise of protesters here on WS.

I probably didn't word my post correctly because I was not referring to people here on the CV thread, when I said people weren't complaining about the protesters.

I was referring to the optics and the msm and the tv coverage, where we saw governors and top politicians marching shoulder to shoulder.

Those same people are now bashing those who want to attend a rally in Tulsa. It seems hypocritical to me that those who took part in the marches are now screaming in opposition to one rally that is in one city, one day=== compared to a nationwide, global wide mass protest lasting months.
JMO

 

[tresir2012]

Here's how it works. Some intelligent people predict that things are going to get worse, for a variety of reasons. They warn and ask for caution, otherwise they fear what the outcome will be.

Days/Weeks later, they are proven correct. Things start to decline, rates of outbreak begin to increase, all following the same pattern as months earlier, and matching the predictions of those intelligent individuals weeks prior.

Are they praised for being correct? Do the masses who poo poo'd the warnings and predictions, suddenly realize the accuracy of those forecasts, and change their beliefs? OF COURSE NOT.

Instead, bring on the excuses. Bring on the explanations. Bring on the "It's Impossible To Go Back Or Remain Stagnant, We Must Move Forward, And Continue Opening Everything Up."

We are a Worldwide Embarrassment.

Could you possibly give some links to illustrate the statements in paragraphs 1 and 2? So far the peaks and subsequent declines have been planned for eg. Hospital ships in LA and NY and capacity was not exceeded so perhaps you are talking about specific states?

Originally for both UK and USA really big numbers regarding deaths were forecast IIRC but would appreciate any sources you have in mind.

 

[katydid23]

They can speak on a subject to further a cause they believe in if they choose to speak about it. They have that right. Not everyone considers a subject to be all about them.

I never said they didn't have a right to do so. Just because one has the right to do something it doesn't mean they should. JMO

 

[Trino]

I probably didn't word my post correctly because I was not referring to people here on the CV thread, when I said people weren't complaining about the protesters.

I was referring to the optics and the msm and the tv coverage, where we saw governors and top politicians marching shoulder to shoulder.

Those same people are now bashing those who want to attend a rally in Tulsa. It seems hypocritical to me that those who took part in the marches are now screaming in opposition to one rally that is in one city, one day=== compared to a nationwide, global wide mass protest lasting months.
JMO

This rally is inside. Another huge difference is the shear number of attendees vs. protestors. 20,000 I think. There was no protest of that magnitude.

 

[10ofRods]

Here's how it works. Some intelligent people predict that things are going to get worse, for a variety of reasons. They warn and ask for caution, otherwise they fear what the outcome will be.

Days/Weeks later, they are proven correct. Things start to decline, rates of outbreak begin to increase, all following the same pattern as months earlier, and matching the predictions of those intelligent individuals weeks prior.

Are they praised for being correct? Do the masses who poo poo'd the warnings and predictions, suddenly realize the accuracy of those forecasts, and change their beliefs? OF COURSE NOT.

Instead, bring on the excuses. Bring on the explanations. Bring on the "It's Impossible To Go Back Or Remain Stagnant, We Must Move Forward, And Continue Opening Everything Up."

We are a Worldwide Embarrassment.

I want to thank you for this post, because I've been very depressed about this issue. I correctly predicted that our local numbers were about to rise (we hit the state watch list, we have had a record day of new cases; California-wide, it's been our worst week...I was reviled by some in my social life for pointing out this was likely to happen),

Many do not want to hear it. I'm trying to learn to respect that. You guys, here on WS, know that we discuss CoVid on this thread, and a lot of it is not pleasant or easy to hear. Many of us are older. I'm finding that there are huge generational differences in how this is viewed, of course.

In my world, there are now two sets of people: people rigidly quarantining themselves and avoiding everything but necessary trips to the doctor and to grocery stores, and those who are trying hard to just "go back to normal." Guess which group will get more CoVid?

Mortality rates per case should go down (a little) because this group is younger and self-selected for presumed health. Their hospital experiences (and bills) are going to shock them. And of course, some will have a very mild course. Families who actually have a member diagnosed will suddenly change their behavior and at least temporarily join the quarantine side, which will help.

But with this process, our plateau in our first wave just sits there, killing 3000 Americans per month (increasingly outside of nursing homes, of course). Workers in higher risk settings will die at higher rates, those jobs will be hard to re-fill. We already see higher crime rates in NY and NJ (and elsewhere). ⅓ of people (maybe just in CA, can't remember) have missed a mortgage payment.

Restaurants, retail, gyms, theaters, sports - these are not going to fully rebound until CoVid is over. People do not want to hear this. Restaurant workers grimly consider going back to conditions that, even with a mask, are known to be at higher risk for CoVid (especially large kitchens for large restaurants/conference centers/country clubs/amusement parks). So many young people are retreating back into living at home and temporarily giving up on independence or wage earning - or spending.

Disposable income spending is way way down. And it will continue to be. If we could solve the health problem, we could solve the other problems.

No one likes hearing me say that 9-10,000 more will die by end of September. California is actually projected to have way more deaths by end of September - 5000 just in California if current trends continue. Newsome's mask decision is a game changer - but boy is it going to be politically charged.

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

The original projection for CA was 5000 with a flat tail by August; then 8800 with a flat tail by September. Now 15,155 by end of September, no tail, and instead, a steady linear increase in deaths.

Almost unbelievably, Florida is set to surpass California with almost 19,000 deaths by end of September and no projected decline in cases - still going up at that point. Same overall situation in Arizona, but with only 7000 total deaths by end of September.

Still, for the US as a whole, most projections are that we will be 201,000 by end of September. And still rising or at least bumping along at a plateau of about 1300-1500 per month until...when? Until the next year, when we get to 500,000 by December 2021? No one likes hearing those projections. But they are what they are, and yes, the experts have been right.

All kinds of things can change that: masks, gradual reopening of schools, a vaccine, better treatments. With what we now know about how long this lingers and how many have lung damage that may well be permanent, no one likes to be the bearer of bad news - and apparently, people as always prefer not to hear this kind of fact-based doom-saying. Better to have Sasquatch in the neighborhood or 5G towers causing CoVid.

 

[tresir2012]

I posted this in the Canada thread but thought it might be of interest here too:

Some communities across Canada have started making non-medical face masks mandatory on public transit — or even in businesses or indoor spaces — to curb the spread of COVID-19.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/mandatory-masks-1.5615728?
cmp=FB_Feed_CBCMain&fbclid=IwAR38SWU26huTnDMfhT3KoxrO4lmVA_afnH6QquNAmwmGzgbNoGvXQkPC_wM

Masks have been made mandatory on public transport in UK in the last week as people go back to work. Also some European countries too - to coincide with end of some lockdown measures in our case. (UK)

Is most of Canada out of lockdown?

 

[10ofRods]

I probably didn't word my post correctly because I was not referring to people here on the CV thread, when I said people weren't complaining about the protesters.

I was referring to the optics and the msm and the tv coverage, where we saw governors and top politicians marching shoulder to shoulder.

Those same people are now bashing those who want to attend a rally in Tulsa. It seems hypocritical to me that those who took part in the marches are now screaming in opposition to one rally that is in one city, one day=== compared to a nationwide, global wide mass protest lasting months.
JMO

Oh - thank you for clarifying. I didn't actually watch much of the protests, I did see the screaming and cringed and could hardly watch more.

The only people I've read about who are upset with the Tulsa rally are the Tulsa mayor, the head of Tulsa Public Health, and some workers from Tulsa Public Health who are struggling with the strain of such a large number of people who have already arrived. A couple of hospital workers also spoke out anonymously - I didn't see anything about it in my SM, but I'm only just here on WS and TripAdvisor and a few other places.

 

[katydid23]

This rally is inside. Another huge difference is the shear number of attendees vs. protestors. 20,000 I think. There was no protest of that magnitude.

The protesters sometimes went inside buildings. They also stood within inches of cop lines and national guard lines and screamed in their faces.

In terms of numbers:

The protests spread to over 2,000 cities and towns in all 50 states[1] and all 5 permanently-inhabited territories,[2][3][4][5][6] as well as in over 60 other countries, with demonstrators supporting those seeking justice for Floyd and the wider Black Lives Matter movement, and speaking out against police brutality. The vast majority of demonstrations have been peaceful, but there have been instances of rioting, violence and police brutality.[7][8][9] The wave of protests and unrest has been compared to the long, hot summer of 1967 and the King assassination riots, both of which saw riots in over a hundred cities across the United States.[10]

Outside the United States, protests against the killing of George Floyd, racism, and police brutality also took place, notably in the cities of Auckland, Barcelona, Berlin, Brisbane, Madrid, Melbourne, Copenhagen, Dublin, Accra, Lagos, Nairobi, Cape Town, Paris, Perth, Rio de Janeiro, Sydney, Tel Aviv, Seoul, Tokyo, Vienna, and Athens, as well as in the countries of Canada and the United Kingdom. Protests have taken place in over 60 countries and on all continents except Antarctica.[a]

The protests were spread across the globe and have lasted for weeks already.

It is hard to compare ONE really, in one city, for a couple of hours, to a global wide mass protest lasting weeks. JMO

 

[sloane7777]

But, it's also everyone else's life because you can spread it to family and friends!!!

Request that political references, protesters vs. political events be listed together. We really don't need to differentiate between the groups.

This is not supposed to be a political thread, but it certainly seems to be.

Its pretty simple to me not political at all ,
Stay home, Wear a mask, Distance, Wash hands VS Go hang out with a megaton of people , party , yell , scream, wear no mask = who will be the ones spreading with no regard to others life!

 

[Bravo]

We in Ontario are in Phase 2, I should say some of us are. I am.
Some Ontario regions are entering Phase 2 and others aren’t, presenting an ethical dilemma

 

[LadyL]

Did anyone have the same sentiment about the thousands of protesters? They were applauded and praised. Never heard anyone say that they might be infecting their family or coworkers.

I did on social media and got slammed for being cautious about this disease that's killing us.

 

[tresir2012]

Squirting what into our noses? I haven't heard about this.

Follow the arrows back about 4 times till you get to my post about a nasal spray.

 

[Bravo]

I did on social media and got slammed. Apparently I'm a racist for being cautious about this disease that's killing us.

Wow. I want to hear their voices but safely.

 

[MimosaMornings]

I think people don’t believe it’s real until it hits close to home.

Neighborhood app just went crazy because 5 teenagers tested positive this week. They’ve been in and out of various homes in the neighborhood, pool parties, vacation in Florida - no social distancing, no masks, no precautions.

And they wonder how it invaded their family.

 

[Bravo]

We are allowed to discuss what any Leader says in MSM. When any such Leader ignores the Science and the facts it's most concerning. I have witnessed the Interviews as one speaks to their Country as having very low numbers. Numbers don't lie and if Florida continues it will soon be the new epicentre. IMO

 

[tresir2012]

Coronavirus updates as they happened: Health secretary defends tracing app after U-turn - BBC News

Summary

1. Health Secretary Matt Hancock led the UK government briefing
2. More than one in four people who test positive cannot be reached by the test and trace system in England, data shows
3. In a major U-turn, the UK is shifting its tracing app to a model based on technology provided by Apple and Google
4. Bank of England announces £100bn in fresh stimulus to support the UK economy
5. There are more than 240,000 virus cases in Peru, which puts the total over hard-hit Italy
6. At least 130,000 people more than expected have died during the pandemic, the BBC finds
7. Globally there are 8.3m recorded cases with more than 448,000 deaths

Details at link.