Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

[Nikynoo]

In what sense is AC the victim?

I think he may have been manipulated. There was certainly sibling (emotional) abuse. Family background is key to their relationship.

 

[Nikynoo]

Were you thinking a “victim” of Lori and Chad, in a brainwashed sort of way?

Possibly, though I tend to think more Lori than Chad. The light/dark chart Chad did, had Alex as a 2, and he probably based that on what Lori told him and/or was (possibly) jealous of the relationship the two of them had. The rating may have made Alex feel inferior.
Pure speculation by me.

 

[Nikynoo]

Here's the thing: when you look at the murders/deaths of Charles, Tammy, Tylee, and JJ, CD and LV each have something to gain from them, apart from any supposed religious motivations.

To me, AC killing these four people (two whom he appeared to care deeply for, and one whom he may not have ever even met) solely out of religious fervor... feels like we're missing something. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm don't recall reading anything about AC being a particularly religious/spiritual person prior to all this, and just the fact that he had facial hair makes me suspect he wasn't strongly invested in the LDS community (here in Utah, that's usually a fairly good sign someone isn't LDS).

I wonder if there was some other sort of manipulation (blackmail, even?) at play here. I mean, I love my siblings, but there are limits to what I'd do for them, and watching the police footage of LV's attitude after CV's death, she doesn't seem concerned in the least bit at the possibility that her brother may be facing murder charges. I know we've mentioned how unfeeling she seemed toward CV, but the fact is, she doesn't really seem to be going out of her way to protect AC, either.

MOO

I agree. Something not quite right and I'm wondering what it is.

 

[Nikynoo]

I believe AC did help in the removal of the bodies and burial. I feel Chad did the digging, shooting and burning. Lori did kill both children. That’s my opinion.

Waiting to see what happens!!!!

We share similar thinking. I'm hoping it won't be too long before more information is released.

 

[longtimereader]

I don't mind answering at all, I just don't want to go too far off topic. I would say it was more of a faith promoting story vs trying to get me to do something specific. It was not received in the temple. As far as Chad's visions, those were being sold/promoted to a group of people seeking information outside of the truth presented in Biblical scripture, and he was all to happy to sell it to them. Moo.

Thank you!

 

[Trouble1321075]

Long time lurker first time poster.
Didn’t AxC have a problem with opioids as first thing used on him was Narcan? Hoping I remember this correctly. But I think you have a point, why would they consider an OD on a woman that had no history of drug abuse. I’m still not convinced AxC death was natural, there are just way too many death in this family in such a short time.

Also, since I’m here, murder charges should definitely be brought against LVD, she is their mother and ultimately in charge of their care. She failed and she knew they were dead when she went to Hawaii.

As a mom, this totally sickens me. I don’t care about the religious views, how can a mother kill or allow someone else to kill their kids.

Not sure I did the quote correctly.

They will charge her with murder once they determine the cause of death and put all the evidence together in a presentable form. Finding the bodies was holding everything up. Now they have that. There is no way this does not go to trial.
It will probably be another year before we hear the prosecuters case but theres no rush while she remains in custody.

 

[Nikynoo]

It doesn't matter so much if he was religious before, at the time of the murders he appeared to strongly believe in the cause. MBP told IP that "Al had great faith and never wavered in his trust in the Lord. No task would be too difficult or great for him." Alex himself told MG that he believed in zombies. It is likely that he was the one who shot at BB. That could have been another murder.

Yes, there is the BB shooting. I'm curious about that also. I'm also curious about BB.

 

[Nikynoo]

Did the FBI say where they found this photo? If not, maybe, they found it on one of the many burner phones that were confiscated.

By releasing this photo, it was a message to CD and LVD that they have the phones and have recovered the data on them.

JMO.

I'm not sure. How would they know its been released if they have no access to media? Are their lawyers likely to take the picture into jail and ask them what the relevance is?

 

[Nikynoo]

I know last week, there was talk of a continuence subject to papers being filed. Were those papers filed? Are will still on for a hearing next week?

 

[Trouble1321075]

I need to get something off my chest. I am really disappointed and furious with the people in charge of this investigation. If they had enough evidence to obtain a search warrant in january to look for the kids in Hawaii they could of and should of included in it, to search all the properities with cadaver dogs. They could of recovered the bodies 6 months ago. I cant think of a single excuse for why it took them this long to find those kids.

 

[tripleC]

MOO I am just amazed at how fast her rhetorics change! From "CD is the best guy in the world", "we see things the same way" to high level energy spiritual murderer and rapist.
Not a reliable witness IMO. Who knows maybe at a trial would be a completely new, absolutely unexpected view of CD, if she was to testify.

Seeing how emotional JR gets even now when speaking about her experiences with CD gives me the sense she feels betrayed in many ways. She thought she was special, the chosen Goddess, the only previous wife and had a future with CD. She could've welcomed the advances from CD, but when she found out he had past life marriages with MG, LV and others, she became a scorned lover. Now that she has seen how far he took things, she's going to do and say whatever she can to make him pay for making her feel larger than life and breaking her heart. MOO

 

[lonetraveler]

Well, Lori was obsessed with his books even before he met him. Again, I don't think CD had to work very hard to pursue her. For whatever reason, CD's end of the world ideas really appealed to Lori.

I don't think that Lori is receiving the credit she deserves as a very evil manipulator of men as well as women.

 

[tripleC]

I don't think that Lori is receiving the credit she deserves as a very evil manipulator of men as well as women.

I'm still wondering what's in those cookies of hers???

 

[MsJosie]

There have been quite a few aftershocks this size in the area after the 6.1 on March 31. I installed the Quakefeed app on my phone that day (our house shook in SW Idaho!) and it beeps at me pretty often! I haven't felt any more of them at my house, but friends in Nampa have felt the 4-ish magnitude ones.

off topic....sorry....is the app actually called Quakefeed? I am interested in it...thanks....back to normal discussions now.

 

[Synergizer Bunny]

After looking closely at the photos and @vislaw's analysis and the histogram, I think it most likely they were both taken by the same person on the same phone and I feel pretty strongly that it's an iPhone...

I might have been reading into the FBI's request for visitors to check their photos to see if the kids were in any of them.

When I saw that fuzzy photo, I thought, perhaps, it was a photo that a visitor had taken from afar. Speculation, though.

FBI, police ask visitors to send photos of JJ, Tylee at Yellowstone

 

[vislaw]

I need to get something off my chest. I am really disappointed and furious with the people in charge of this investigation. If they had enough evidence to obtain a search warrant in january to look for the kids in Hawaii they could of and should of included in it, to search all the properities with cadaver dogs. They could of recovered the bodies 6 months ago. I cant think of a single excuse for why it took them this long to find those kids.

Here's the deal. Judges are very aware that the constitution prohibits unreasonable search and seizures and that it is imperative that law enforcement and prosecutors be limited to proving truly legitimate reasons to invade someone's property. A search warrant WAS obtained to search the house last year but there was insufficient information to support a claim that bodies were buried on the property. Only after the CAST team put together the information did they have sufficient proof to support the search warrant. I could tell you some hair-raising stories of abuse by prosecutors and police officers so I appreciate that the judiciary requires more than a rubber stamp to support probable cause to search my home and property. We don't know everything yet, but it does appear to me that this has been a careful and professional investigation. Chad and Lori were under watch early on and were in no danger of escaping. Yes, I wish the cell data had been analyzed sooner, but I don't know how much work was being done and in what order. Until we hear more I would respectfully urge us to give law enforcement and the prosecution the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for letting me weight in. Only my opinion, of course, and I respect yours.

 

[gumchew]

She put plenty of pics of JJ and Tylee in her fb apology post (featured in MSM). She wrote that she was wrong, but she didn't specify that it was wrong to support Lori. I read it as being wrong about the children's fate.

@indicolite22 this is not directed at you, but your comment provides me a convenient opportunity to say this, so please know this is aimed at pretty much all of us:

I feel as if we all need to try to salvage a little empathy from the middle of our scorn and anger and outrage. It is very easy to dislike these folks or assign some evil to them by association. It's easy to say that anyone who is or has ever been on Team Lori and expresses support for her is either stupid or evil themselves. But it's not exactly a fair and balanced view of a three-dimensional human, is it?

Does she (SS) really need to explicitly state that she was wrong to support her sister? Is there a bill of grievances we can list that she could apologize for and she would then be considered to have shown "sufficient" atonement? If you were speaking to her (SS) face-to-face, would you feel comfortable reading that list off to her and demanding her compliance with your view of proper atonement? She who has lost her brother, her niece and her nephew to something that the many sharp minds here on WS still struggle daily to explain coherently?

Is it ever wrong to support a family member, other than in aiding or abetting criminal activities, or condoning them? Those poor children were dead before anybody even noticed they were gone, and before SS and JC were interviewed. We can't change what had already happened and I don't think her expressions of support for her sister or that dismissing the idea that her sister could have harmed the kids are unforgivable acts. Nothing she might have said or done months ago could change the outcome that they were already dead before you or I had ever heard of her, much less heard her speak, or had time to resent her for dismissively protecting her sister.

Families and people are real and people have problems and many families are dysfunctional. I grew up in one, and I think many of us who are here on WS have lived through or experienced or been shaped in some way by some dysfunction in our past. SS is no different. She may express herself in a way or with a tone that rubs us the wrong way, but she's dealing with a big gaping loss in her life, and us ascribing a bunch of ill intent or our judgement of how she's handling her feelings seems like we're just heaping abuse on another victim, no matter how distasteful we find her comments. It's not helping solve a crime. It's not providing closure to anyone. It's not directing our negative feelings at the right target. And frankly, it's petty.

Thanks for listening. MOO

 

[vislaw]

I might have been reading into the FBI's request for visitors to check their photos to see if the kids were in any of them.

When I saw that fuzzy photo, I thought, perhaps, it was a photo that a visitor had taken from afar. Speculation, though.

FBI, police ask visitors to send photos of JJ, Tylee at Yellowstone

I am somewhat surprised that the FBI did not give more information as to the location the photo was taken and the time. This was one of the high traffic areas of the park and I believe more people may have been prompted to check their photos if they learned that, indeed, this was a location they were visiting in the late morning.

 

[longtimereader]

I don't think AC killed them, i really don't.
MOO

He doesn't have much to gain that we can see. LV gets rid of her responsibilities and keeps their income for as long as no one notices. Otherwise he is just a paid killer or super weirdly devoted brother. Unless he was offered some kind of spiritual reward that would counter any past sins and pave way for him to have a wife and be part of the 144,000. Someone pointed out he wasn't especially committed to the LDS teachings in the past.

 

[indicolite22]

@indicolite22 this is not directed at you, but your comment provides me a convenient opportunity to say this, so please know this is aimed at pretty much all of us:

I feel as if we all need to try to salvage a little empathy from the middle of our scorn and anger and outrage. It is very easy to dislike these folks or assign some evil to them by association. It's easy to say that anyone who is or has ever been on Team Lori and expresses support for her is either stupid or evil themselves. But it's not exactly a fair and balanced view of a three-dimensional human, is it?

Does she (SS) really need to explicitly state that she was wrong to support her sister? Is there a bill of grievances we can list that she could apologize for and she would then be considered to have shown "sufficient" atonement? If you were speaking to her (SS) face-to-face, would you feel comfortable reading that list off to her and demanding her compliance with your view of proper atonement? She who has lost her brother, her niece and her nephew to something that the many sharp minds here on WS still struggle daily to explain coherently?

Is it ever wrong to support a family member, other than in aiding or abetting criminal activities, or condoning them? Those poor children were dead before anybody even noticed they were gone, and before SS and JC were interviewed. We can't change what had already happened and I don't think her expressions of support for her sister or that dismissing the idea that her sister could have harmed the kids are unforgivable acts. Nothing she might have said or done months ago could change the outcome that they were already dead before you or I had ever heard of her, much less heard her speak, or had time to resent her for dismissively protecting her sister.

Families and people are real and people have problems and many families are dysfunctional. I grew up in one, and I think many of us who are here on WS have lived through or experienced or been shaped in some way by some dysfunction in our past. SS is no different. She may express herself in a way or with a tone that rubs us the wrong way, but she's dealing with a big gaping loss in her life, and us ascribing a bunch of ill intent or our judgement of how she's handling her feelings seems like we're just heaping abuse on another victim, no matter how distasteful we find her comments. It's not helping solve a crime. It's not providing closure to anyone. It's not directing our negative feelings at the right target. And frankly, it's petty.

Thanks for listening. MOO

Well, she did more than trust and support Lori. She slandered the Woodcocks who asked for a welfare check and blamed Charles Vallow for his own death.