Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[rachlynneliz]

I haven’t followed the other case closely. Were they found in a remote location rarely traveled? I guess we could say the Delphi girls were in a remote location....?

amateur opinion and speculation

I have always thought these two cases were very similar and possibly connected. I’ve tried doing some research to find other cases similar to this m.o. I really Hope hope they catch this guy soon before it happens again.

 

[rachlynneliz]

Refreshing:
Police release all-new sketch, video and audio of Delphi double murder suspect

The last paragraph I don't remember to have known.

I wonder if the new sketch released was a DNA sketch, therefore they think it is more accurate than the one from grainy video.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I wonder if the new sketch released was a DNA sketch, therefore they think it is more accurate than the one from grainy video.

Whatever the source, it has certainly caused confusion it seems.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[sunshineray]

I am already feeling sorry for the jurors that will sit on this case.

I would like to see the Judge put a gag order on the specifics of how these children were found, and the details of the condition of their remains. We the public, do not need to know those details, and I'd like to preserve some dignity for the children in death, and minimize further trauma for the families. The only thing releasing the details of their remains will do, is serve to ignite copycats, and feed the prurient interest of the gore seekers.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Roses, While I truly understand your words, your feelings...there's a killer of children on the loose, three years after he's killed he's still walking around in society unidentified and unpunished. Abby and Libby's dignity can never be besmirched for they are two child victims. Whenever I look at the Holocaust victims I feel the same, their dignity remains intact, they were victims.

That said, I agree with you that at trial the privacy of Abby and Libby must be guarded as best it can be while still making sure that society knows, knows well, just what kind of monster(s) it has produced. It's the only way to stop it, you must identify and display evil or mental disability for all to see. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Throwing this out there:

If there was DNA of the perp: don't you think this case would be solved already - ?

IF DNA ought to solve it, but hasn't: why not?

Suggests to me that this killer has not previously, and/or possibly since, committed a crime that requires DNA samples...

It would also suggest any locals on LE's 'radars' are not the perp: they'd get that DNA if so...

The perp is utterly outside the target area of LE & speculation

OR

There is no DNA of the perp....

JMO

Or it's possible LE only has partial DNA and have narrowed the gene pool down substantially but not enough to convict a suspect. They need more than DNA.

 

[sunshineray]

Whatever the source, it has certainly caused confusion it seems.

amateur opinion and speculation

You know one thing that really bothers me about that whole NBG sketch reveal is how LE waited until the last minutes before the conference to tell BP, MP and AW about it. Instead of telling them the night before in the privacy of their homes, letting them digest it all before having to face the throng of media.

I just don't understand the need to treat the family that way regarding the unveiling of a new sketch. I would go as far as to say it was callous, considering that LE knew the energy those close family members had put behind publicizing the original OBG sketch. I think it was badly handled by LE.

Sorry for the bit of a rant. Your post just dislodged it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Roses, While I truly understand your words, your feelings...there's a killer of children on the loose, three years after he's killed he's still walking around in society unidentified and unpunished. Abby and Libby's dignity can never be besmirched for they are two child victims. Whenever I look at the Holocaust victims I feel the same, their dignity remains intact, they were victims.

That said, I agree with you that at trial the privacy of Abby and Libby must be guarded as best it can be while still making sure that society knows, knows well, just what kind of monster(s) it has produced. It's the only way to stop it, you must identify and display evil or mental disability for all to see. AJMO

Ok, I guess I’ll “go there” to emboss my point. When I was studying crimes against women, there are a few that stand out beyond others; Bundy being one. Invariably , when scanning for research, you will be served up the most gruesome and disrespectful image from a notorious murder decades ago. The poor Victim has been revictimized every time that d@mn image is displayed, or the exceedingly gruesome details about her remains are posted and discussed for morbid and prurient interests. The discussions I reference are not clinical, or for crime fighting purposes. They are disgusting and insensitive.

Some things should remain confidential amongst law enforcement, the family, and the jurors. There should be strict gag orders with stiff penalties if this trust is breached.

We owe this to the Victims. They should have their dignity in death.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

You know one thing that really bothers me about that whole NBG sketch reveal is how LE waited until the last minutes before the conference to tell BP, MP and AW about it. Instead of telling them the night before in the privacy of their homes, letting them digest it all before having to face the throng of media.

I just don't understand the need to treat the family that way regarding the unveiling of a new sketch. I would go as far as to say it was callous, considering that LE knew the energy those close family members had put behind publicizing the original OBG sketch. I think it was badly handled by LE.

Sorry for the bit of a rant. Your post just dislodged it.

Perhaps that was calculated, and law enforcement was looking to detect if there was any shock or recognition. Harsh, but that’s their job.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MistyWaters]

Perhaps that was calculated, and law enforcement was looking to detect if there was any shock or recognition. Harsh, but that’s their job.

amateur opinion and speculation

To place the family on display in front of the media and general public, that’s pretty heartless IMO. The alternative is for LE to arrange a private meeting with family members immediately prior to the press conference to inform them or to their gauge shock or recognition, if that was their motive.

 

[CCJD]

Ok, I guess I’ll “go there” to emboss my point. When I was studying crimes against women, there are a few that stand out beyond others; Bundy being one. Invariably , when scanning for research, you will be served up the most gruesome and disrespectful image from a notorious murder decades ago. The poor Victim has been revictimized every time that d@mn image is displayed, or the exceedingly gruesome details about her remains are posted and discussed for morbid and prurient interests. The discussions I reference are not clinical, or for crime fighting purposes. They are disgusting and insensitive.

Some things should remain confidential amongst law enforcement, the family, and the jurors. There should be strict gag orders with stiff penalties if this trust is breached.

We owe this to the Victims. They should have their dignity in death.

amateur opinion and speculation

BBM

"Liking" this post just wasn't enough. Thank you for "going there".

 

[sunshineray]

Ok, I guess I’ll “go there” to emboss my point. When I was studying crimes against women, there are a few that stand out beyond others; Bundy being one. Invariably , when scanning for research, you will be served up the most gruesome and disrespectful image from a notorious murder decades ago. The poor Victim has been revictimized every time that d@mn image is displayed, or the exceedingly gruesome details about her remains are posted and discussed for morbid and prurient interests. The discussions I reference are not clinical, or for crime fighting purposes. They are disgusting and insensitive.

Some things should remain confidential amongst law enforcement, the family, and the jurors. There should be strict gag orders with stiff penalties if this trust is breached.

We owe this to the Victims. They should have their dignity in death.

amateur opinion and speculation

I agree there should be total gag orders on photographic images of crimes scenes being released but not descriptions of the crimes. I don't believe that the reporting/documenting of information about victim's deaths is victimizing them all over again, that's where we differ.

I had a friend who use to cover their eyes, close their ears everytime the news talked about the Vietnam War atrocities that had happened. I thought shame on them for wanting to turn their eyes blind to what humans were doing to other humans. That's just how I myself think and deal. I do understand others feel much differently and I respect their feelings.

 

[sunshineray]

Perhaps that was calculated, and law enforcement was looking to detect if there was any shock or recognition. Harsh, but that’s their job.

amateur opinion and speculation

I think it could have detected that in their homes, the night before. JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I agree with you, @rosesfromangels and I believe there has been a notable shift in how LE handles the details in cases like these over the past few years, towards affording more privacy to victims and families. When I was growing up it was very common to see headlines like "raped and murdered" and now the sexual assault part of that is typically omitted if the deceased victim's identity has been reported/is known to the public. Obviously survivors of sexual assault are no longer identified in normal circumstances and I think this shift goes along with that.

I also think, this is JMO, that in this particular case the investigators have a an attitude like "we'll be damned if this perpetrator gets the satisfaction of having the details of how he violated these girls blasted for all to see." As I said, MOO only.

 

[MistyWaters]

Roses, While I truly understand your words, your feelings...there's a killer of children on the loose, three years after he's killed he's still walking around in society unidentified and unpunished. Abby and Libby's dignity can never be besmirched for they are two child victims. Whenever I look at the Holocaust victims I feel the same, their dignity remains intact, they were victims.

That said, I agree with you that at trial the privacy of Abby and Libby must be guarded as best it can be while still making sure that society knows, knows well, just what kind of monster(s) it has produced. It's the only way to stop it, you must identify and display evil or mental disability for all to see. AJMO

Because both of the victims were children, I’d sure expect most details to be banned from publication as well.

This is another reason I think LE has held back information relating to the crime scene and rightly so. I really doubt there’s any aspect relating to murder of two young victims, who also may have been sexually assaulted, that would justify release in the hopes of receiving a good tip. More than likely it’d be the sort of details known to feed the imagination of lurid, pedophilic sickos. Abby and Libby deserve dignity and respect, even after death.

 

[Yesiamapirate]

I think a big piece in solving this is knowing why Libby started recording the video. Was she recording something else ans happed to film him? Did something alarm? Did they recognize him? One final thought...does LE know why she started recording? Sorry if this had already been discussed but it nags at me. I have followed this case from day one and it just nags at me. What would make a teen start recording a man walking towards them? Is there something about what made them record him that can give a clue to who he is? Something odd, funny or notable?
MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Because both of the victims were children, I’d sure expect most details to be banned from publication as well.

This is another reason I think LE has held back information relating to the crime scene and rightly so. I really doubt there’s any aspect relating to murder of two young victims, who also may have been sexually assaulted, that would justify release in the hopes of receiving a good tip. More than likely it’d be the sort of details known to feed the imagination of lurid, pedophilic sickos. Abby and Libby deserve dignity and respect, even after death.

I can't helping thinking how the Catholic Church tried to keep details and truths away from the public as to what kind of horrors were done to children in their care and under their influence. I just don't agree on the point of keeping it quiet as to what is being done in America to children. Just one piece of information could in fact help others to see clearly what someone they know may be involved in. I despise covering up the horrible truths. I think society needs to hear them. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I agree with you, @rosesfromangels and I believe there has been a notable shift in how LE handles the details in cases like these over the past few years, towards affording more privacy to victims and families. When I was growing up it was very common to see headlines like "raped and murdered" and now the sexual assault part of that is typically omitted if the deceased victim's identity has been reported/is known to the public. Obviously survivors of sexual assault are no longer identified in normal circumstances and I think this shift goes along with that.

I also think, this is JMO, that in this particular case the investigators have a an attitude like "we'll be damned if this perpetrator gets the satisfaction of having the details of how he violated these girls blasted for all to see." As I said, MOO only.

And when this perpetrator is on trial for his crimes against children, do you not feel the public should know what was done? I do not mean photographically, I mean by description.

 

[Trailerparkgirl]

I think a big piece in solving this is knowing why Libby started recording the video. Was she recording something else ans happed to film him? Did something alarm? Did they recognize him? One final thought...does LE know why she started recording? Sorry if this had already been discussed but it nags at me. I have followed this case from day one and it just nags at me. What would make a teen start recording a man walking towards them? Is there something about what made them record him that can give a clue to who he is? Something odd, funny or notable?
MOO

this is what i think...MOO...in one of the podcasts (i listened to two of them "down the hill" and the one on "scene of the crime") the interviewer asked BP (iirc) if she heard the whole audio and asked her what else was on there, she mentioned just 'girl talk' and also (i think abby) had asked if "that creepy guy" was still behind them or following them...(sorry for not being exact but i think alot of people have listened to the podcasts and know what im talking about.) i believe that is what prompted her to start filming

 

[rosesfromangels]

Because both of the victims were children, I’d sure expect most details to be banned from publication as well.

This is another reason I think LE has held back information relating to the crime scene and rightly so. I really doubt there’s any aspect relating to murder of two young victims, who also may have been sexually assaulted, that would justify release in the hopes of receiving a good tip. More than likely it’d be the sort of details known to feed the imagination of lurid, pedophilic sickos. Abby and Libby deserve dignity and respect, even after death.

Well said.
I will give you another example. On FB you will see people who share images or videos of children in compromised situations to "raise awareness". B*ll***t. Either these people are dumber than a box of hair, or they are "advertising" their wares. By their "raising awareness" they are actually at risk of being perceived as distributing illegal materials.
I see this in the same manner as Victims of sexual assault and murder. Let LE sort through the sordid details and images; *not* the general public.

Okay - you will all be happy to know I am jumping off the soap box and going for a bike ride in the sunshine and fresh air.
Peace to all, and justice for the 2 Roses.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Yemelyan]

And when this perpetrator is on trial for his crimes against children, do you not feel the public should know what was done? I do not mean photographically, I mean by description.

No, not really. Look at it this way. Let's say a man abducts a young girl, murdering both of her parents in the process. He keeps her hostage for several months and sexually abuses her during that time. When he's caught and put on trial, prosecutors go after him for the murders and for kidnapping. He plea bargains on the murder charges which will put him behind bars for the rest of his life. Should we the public also get to hear about the sexual abuse just so that we have a full realization of the type of predator that he was? Or does the girl's emotional well-being trump that? Since he's already going away forever for the murders, I think the argument could be made that her privacy is more important than our curiosity.

However, I don't say that anyone is wrong necessarily for feeling differently about it. I could also see a scenario where a deceased victim's family wants someone punished to the "full extent" of the law which would mean bringing these details in.