Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[tresir2012]

@MistyWaters , what are mannerisms, I know. In fact, a synonym to mannerisms would be "idiosyncrasies", everything specific to the person. Not only posture or body, it could be tics, or odd gait, the way the person tugs at the hair, or unusual posture, or even specific way of carrying a purse.

DC, 2019 PC.

“We are also releasing video recovered from Libby’s phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows the suspect walking on the bridge. When you see the video, watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember, he is walking on the former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties.”.

So maybe he says, "there is nothing odd to his gait". Who knows?

I think he could be referring to the slight turn of the head to the left and what looks to be a spitting, chewing or talking action of his mouth. That could be a mannerism IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm unable to track down the post that you are replying to here, so I'll reply to your snipped quote. What would make a couple of young girls judge a man to be suspicious or threatening enough to take a video of him? It's been discussed before somewhere on the forums that as females, we have an innate, sharp sense of danger around us. Especially those of us who grew up in an environment of abuse. We never feel safe. We never forget. Girls who are taught to pay attention to this gift are more likely to act as Libby did. Something about him set off her alarms, and I'm going to guess that it was his presence behind her best friend, high on a bridge, with no one in sight to see them or hear them if they called out for help. In this day and age, I think that most men understand that it's just a bad idea to put yourself in any situation that could arouse suspicion as to your intentions when young girls are involved. Libby felt encroached upon. She knew that he shouldn't be there. She could see that he was advancing on them. She did what she did to establish a record in case the worst thing happened. What a brave young girl.

She also had Abby becoming uneasy enough to voice wanting to leave the end of the bridge area as BG approached them. That's what Abby's mom mentions in an interview.

I think both girls had noticed BG somewhere in their hiking before going on the bridge. Libby could have been thinking, I'll show my Dad, my Gramps or CP and see if they know who that weird guy is we saw. She started recording him, stopped and then hit record button on while putting her phone away when she realized he was going to engage them in some way. A quick thinking and brave girl indeed.

 

[Justice101]

We have a loop with some frames probably cut out, too. It might generate the wrong impression. And that makes the situation more difficult. I don’t know what his gait is - all I can say is, if all his steps are like this, it is neuropathic gait, if just one, something else.

LE posted that loop so that we could see “mannerisms”, though, meaning, it should be his gait???

All this havoc, including two sketches, neither of them reminding the man on the bridge, is disorienting, not helping.

Since most video is 29 frames per second, the second step is probably a good half second (or 14 frames) later. that tells me that her phone was shaking and was blurring him out and this was the best still frames they could get.

 

[Jeeps22]

That one of the girls was forced to watch is rumor.

Please do not bring rumors to WS and discuss them. Thanks.

Hi sillybilly. I'm listening to the True Crime Garage Delphi podcast as I write this. The hosts are discussing that very thing right now. At roughly the 5:56:05 mark one host says that one of the detectives said that the cellphone video haunts him because of the look on one girl's face. Then a female host replies this: " The investigator said that it's always haunted him, that he has watched Libby's cellphone video multiple times, and what bothers him is the reaction on one girl's face, watching what is happening to her friend." I'm not being deliberately argumentative, I am just wondering if we cannot take what we hear on the podcasts as fact. I have believed that we can, especially when the podcasts have LE involvement in production.

 

[TTF14]

Hi sillybilly. I'm listening to the True Crime Garage Delphi podcast as I write this. The hosts are discussing that very thing right now. At roughly the 5:56:05 mark one host says that one of the detectives said that the cellphone video haunts him because of the look on one girl's face. Then a female host replies this: " The investigator said that it's always haunted him, that he has watched Libby's cellphone video multiple times, and what bothers him is the reaction on one girl's face, watching what is happening to her friend." I'm not being deliberately argumentative, I am just wondering if we cannot take what we hear on the podcasts as fact. I have believed that we can, especially when the podcasts have LE involvement in production.

Podcasts are almost always far from MSM.

And just because a female host says that an investigator said that does not make it true.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hi sillybilly. I'm listening to the True Crime Garage Delphi podcast as I write this. The hosts are discussing that very thing right now. At roughly the 5:56:05 mark one host says that one of the detectives said that the cellphone video haunts him because of the look on one girl's face. Then a female host replies this: " The investigator said that it's always haunted him, that he has watched Libby's cellphone video multiple times, and what bothers him is the reaction on one girl's face, watching what is happening to her friend." I'm not being deliberately argumentative, I am just wondering if we cannot take what we hear on the podcasts as fact. I have believed that we can, especially when the podcasts have LE involvement in production.

"Forced to watch" was removed due to it being social media comment. There is a distinction between "forced to watch" (terminology sourced via rumor) vs "watching what is happening" (from an approved source). While it is a most likely scenario that one of the girls DID see/watch what was happening to the other, that does not necessarily translate into being forced by the perp to do so as an element of the crime.

Let's just stick with our approved sources without adding an interpretation by random social media commentators.

 

[sunshineray]

I have a question that maybe someone local to the area might be able to answer.

When an searching emergency like the girls going missing happens in the Delphi area, is it the Delphi and Tri Township Volunteer Fire Department that calls all volunteers to assist in searching?

I don't live in a rural area so know little to nothing about how that all occurs with a volunteer fire department. Does each member have a home alarm walkie-talkie that goes off or nowadays is it all by phone alert? TIA

 

[rypj84]

Not commenting on that situation, yesterday I watched "8 mm", a 1999 film, with Nicholas Cage. It is rather interesting to watch, and somehow reverberates crime clubs and real sex trafficking. It is total disregard for human life that angers me.

8mm (film) - Wikipedia

The first season of True Detective also.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I couldn't reply to a great post that @sunshineray made in the last thread because it was closed by the time I got there, but I wanted to include a reply as well as some information with regards to witnesses who helped produce the first sketch, as I believe is important to confirm that there was another contributor to that first sketch who came forward months later.

This is the post I am referring to.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

On July 17, 2017 Tobe Leazenby said the following, from this article:

Can you identify this man?: Police release sketch of suspect in Delphi double homicide case (right click and open link in 'incognito window' to read the full article.)

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the sketch was made by an FBI sketch artist after a recent tip. He did not identify the person responsible for the tip.

“This is in response to a witness that’s come forward,” Leazenby said of the sketch. “They sought us out recently.”

When asked why the person hadn’t given the information earlier in the now five-month investigation into the killings, he replied, “Good question. I don’t know.”

Leazenby said he wouldn’t get into specifics of the tip, like where and when the man was seen, but said the person basically said, “I have this information to share. I think I saw the individual involved.”

JMO but based on everything we have learned from GH and from LE over the last three plus years, at least three people contributed to that first sketch.

Only one person that we know of contributed to the second sketch.

I don't believe that both sketches are the same person at all. Not one bit. JMO

The last line of @sunshineray's post says this:

"Now I wonder if all that is totally wrong and there are two killers to catch?"

I am not at all sure if they are both killers.

I am really now beginning to believe that there were two different men there that day, I am just not sure which face Abby and Libby saw in their last moments.


All JMO

 

[Yesiamapirate]

Hi sillybilly. I'm listening to the True Crime Garage Delphi podcast as I write this. The hosts are discussing that very thing right now. At roughly the 5:56:05 mark one host says that one of the detectives said that the cellphone video haunts him because of the look on one girl's face. Then a female host replies this: " The investigator said that it's always haunted him, that he has watched Libby's cellphone video multiple times, and what bothers him is the reaction on one girl's face, watching what is happening to her friend." I'm not being deliberately argumentative, I am just wondering if we cannot take what we hear on the podcasts as fact. I have believed that we can, especially when the podcasts have LE involvement in production.

Could he have pushed of the girls off the bridge and that was caught on the video? MOO

 

[Charlot123]

Agree...just sensationalizing. My brother was found dead well after death and thankfully the papers did not go into the obviously expected details.

I am very sorry for what has happened to your brother, @sunshineray.

 

[Charlot123]

I think he could be referring to the slight turn of the head to the left and what looks to be a spitting, chewing or talking action of his mouth. That could be a mannerism IMO.

Yes, that. Also, there seems to be some asymmetry of the figure as he walks - neck turned, drawn into the shoulders, some stiffness of the raised elbows. I don’t think he is “local local”.

 

[Yemelyan]

Could he have pushed of the girls off the bridge and that was caught on the video? MOO

And then got them to their final resting place...how? One of them weighed 200 pounds. That's a long way to carry both of them, across the river and up a steep bank. Especially considering the assumed timeline. Not sure this theory holds water.

 

[sunshineray]

I couldn't reply to a great post that @sunshineray made in the last thread because it was closed by the time I got there, but I wanted to include a reply as well as some information with regards to witnesses who helped produce the first sketch, as I believe is important to confirm that there was another contributor to that first sketch who came forward months later.

This is the post I am referring to.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

On July 17, 2017 Tobe Leazenby said the following, from this article:

Can you identify this man?: Police release sketch of suspect in Delphi double homicide case (right click and open link in 'incognito window' to read the full article.)

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the sketch was made by an FBI sketch artist after a recent tip. He did not identify the person responsible for the tip.

“This is in response to a witness that’s come forward,” Leazenby said of the sketch. “They sought us out recently.”

When asked why the person hadn’t given the information earlier in the now five-month investigation into the killings, he replied, “Good question. I don’t know.”

Leazenby said he wouldn’t get into specifics of the tip, like where and when the man was seen, but said the person basically said, “I have this information to share. I think I saw the individual involved.”

JMO but based on everything we have learned from GH and from LE over the last three plus years, at least three people contributed to that first sketch.

Only one person that we know of contributed to the second sketch.

I don't believe that both sketches are the same person at all. Not one bit. JMO

The last line of @sunshineray's post says this:

"Now I wonder if all that is totally wrong and there are two killers to catch?"

I am not at all sure if they are both killers.

I am really now beginning to believe that there were two different men there that day, I am just not sure which face Abby and Libby saw in their last moments.


All JMO

Very interesting article branfordsleuth, thanks for posting it.

 

[sunshineray]

I am very sorry for what has happened to your brother, @sunshineray.

Thank you Charlot <3

 

[JudgeJudi]

The DA in the Chris Watts case vehemently opposed the release of the autopsy reports on the basis of “injury to the public interest”. However, the media successfully applied for them to be made available under the Freedom of Information Act. It’s all technical medical terminology, and even if you have a very weak tummy like me, it was much easier to read than the graphic descriptions given in MSM.

The one thing you NEVER want to see are photos of the bodies, and thankfully none of these were released to the public in the above case. I understand at least one YouTuber got a few pics but said he wouldn’t be releasing them.

I honestly don’t understand why LE can’t give some clues as to the causes of death, e.g. strangulation, blunt force trauma, incised wounds (injuries caused by sharp objects) etc. How could this compromise the integrity of the investigation? There’s no need for them to specify which type of injuries either girl sustained, how the bodies were positioned, or if they have a murder weapon.

IMO the most important thing to keep 100% quiet about would be the signatures as they would be unique and known only to the murderer/s, so no false confessions.

 

[Charlot123]

She also had Abby becoming uneasy enough to voice wanting to leave the end of the bridge area as BG approached them. That's what Abby's mom mentions in an interview.

I think both girls had noticed BG somewhere in their hiking before going on the bridge. Libby could have been thinking, I'll show my Dad, my Gramps or CP and see if they know who that weird guy is we saw. She started recording him, stopped and then hit record button on while putting her phone away when she realized he was going to engage them in some way. A quick thinking and brave girl indeed.

As I am thinking, what looked so creepy in him? After all, people cover their faces with scarves and masks, if they get sick during the winter.

I think it was the combination of the mask and intense, nervous, manic, even, gaze above the mask. It happens to meth users, or it could be his mental issues. Anyhow, this is how I imagine BG.

 

[Hobgoblinmarket]

Just being alone and a man like that coming towards me would be enough to scare my adult self tbh.

And this stuff about one girl watching whatever was happening to the other is horrifying as hell

 

[Seratonin]

And then got them to their final resting place...how? One of them weighed 200 pounds. That's a long way to carry both of them, across the river and up a steep bank. Especially considering the assumed timeline. Not sure this theory holds water.

He did say “guys down the hill” so im assuming they made it off the bridge

 

[Seratonin]

As I am thinking, what looked so creepy in him? After all, people cover their faces with scarves and masks, if they get sick during the winter.

I think it was the combination of the mask and intense, nervous, manic, even, gaze above the mask. It happens to meth users, or it could be his mental issues. Anyhow, this is how I imagine BG.

Its scary just being in an isolated area and seeing someone appear out of no where walking towards you.