Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #16

[eyeseestars]

Janelle's story in the initial police report and throughout early media interviews was that she called at 7:30, went to the house at 12:30 and then returned at 7:30. Two visits, no mention of the phone calls while she was there.

On July 20, FBI agent says that "there are people with knowledge who don't feel good about the knowledge they have and may be afraid of the primary kidnapper". Police Chief Terry Knowles says that "the department would protect those who provide information if necessary."

On July 21, FBI says "secondary players may fear going to the police because they think the primary culprit would retaliate."

It is about a week after this, August 3, that (as far as I can tell) the "obscene phone call" is first mentioned. Says it was erased "by someone who came looking for the women before officers were called."

A year later, Janelle's story has changed and now she started calling at 8:30. Now she goes back for a visit at 3:30 that we didn't know about. Now two "obscene phone calls" happened while she was there. Now, she's crying in the backseat of the car after those calls.

Looking back at the case, several police investigators felt like Terry Knowles hampered the investigation and wouldn't let them fully do their jobs.

 

[eyeseestars]

"

Where does it say J&M went to Appleby's? They didn't have his number? Or maybe he didn't answer?

Maybe they saw some kind of attraction between Shane and either Suzie or Stacy, but we don't have proof of that, but it's still possible.

What big brother stuff? I missed that (not a surprise...).

Big brother stuff is from Kansas City Star article June 28, 1992.
Going to Shane's house is mentioned in June 7, 2002 News Leader.

 

[arc anjil]

"

Big brother stuff is from Kansas City Star article June 28, 1992.
Going to Shane's house is mentioned in June 7, 2002 News Leader.

Thank you

 

[Missouri Mule]

"

Big brother stuff is from Kansas City Star article June 28, 1992.
Going to Shane's house is mentioned in June 7, 2002 News Leader.

My personal opinion is that this is a largely unexplored area that was given short shrift when the case was written about in the early days.

My recollection is that Janelle and Mike went to his house (where) after they came to the Delmar home and the women were gone. Why? Was he at the Hanover party? There must have been a reason why he was so quickly queried.

If my recollection is faulty, please feel free to correct these events.

 

[cherrymeg]

I'm around the same age as Stacy and Suzie, and 99% of the women I know did in the 90s and still do sleep in panties and a T-shirt, so I'm not sure why Stacy's attire would be anything different if she were dressed for bed. (I guess we've just run out of other things to talk about.)

I would think most women would bring clothes for the next day. If you end up sleeping at a friend’s house that has relatives or guy friends you might sleep in your clothes or wear shorts or something. Mrs. McCall made it seem like Stacy was in only an underwear and shirt. Do we know if she could have changed clothes to go somewhere else? Idk

 

[Nixaeagle]

I kind of wonder if Appleby was trying to hook up with Susie. Don't think he had anything to do with the disappearance, but the fact that he was driving she and Stacy around all night, the fact that Susie had that "stomach ache" (sounds to me like an excuse not to hook up with someone), the fact that Janelle and Mike went to his house looking for them makes it sound like he was at least making an attempt that night. And then the "big brother" stuff in the media....sounded like someone trying to distance himself for fear of being a suspect. Which, I don't blame him, tbh. It just didn't sound like something someone would normally say about a girl a few months younger than them.

Reportedly by witnesses they spent the entire evening together reminiscing . Perhaps after all that, he had different feelings Suzie didn’t share . Likewise , someone might’ve been trying to get close to her but never got a chance because she was with SA the entire evening ...

I would’ve had really detailed recorded interviews and Written statements with everyone that attended all those parties .. did they do that ?

 

[Missouri Mule]

Reportedly by witnesses they spent the entire evening together reminiscing . Perhaps after all that, he had different feelings Suzie didn’t share . Likewise , someone might’ve been trying to get close to her but never got a chance because she was with SA the entire evening ...

I would’ve had really detailed recorded interviews and Written statements with everyone that attended all those parties .. did they do that ?

I don’t want to get too far in the weeds but in my opinion that angle is super important. What went on that night is probably key to what happened later. As I said earlier, this was glossed over in the rendition of events that night. And I can’t understand why. It is one of the axioms of murder case investigations to thoroughly question the people who were among the last to be with the victims, although I rule out Janelle and Mike H.

As an example in virtually all cases involving spouses the very first suspects are always the spouses. The percentages of involvement are astoundingly high. Since no one here was married, who were the ones closest and perhaps seeking intimate relations?

Yes, I would want to thoroughly question everyone who was at that party that night. And very often there will be old memories revived with information that was not previously known to the police investigators.

That “stomach ache” would be a perfect excuse to want to get back home where the security of home would be expected.

The three main motives to murder are sex, money and drugs. Since, money and drugs have been ruled out, that leaves sex.

Suggestion: The 1992 Kickapoo yearbook is available on the internet. There was one photo that particularly caught my attention. I would suggest looking at friendships. The answer might be found there.

 

[Nixaeagle]

The attached 6/19/92 article (especially the second page) is surprisingly detailed. I had never really heard about the same "brown" GM vehicle being seen in the vicinity of Sherrill's house later in the morning (at what would have been getting close to dawn).

Forgot to mention earlier . The prowler, a few blocks down the street. Possibly dropped a knife . Was that knife processed and researched ? Maybe it was a run of the mill old timer pocket knife , but if necessary why not ask the public if anyone recognized it ? Perhaps a totally unrelated peeper but knowing Sherrill’s window was open
, could have been a huge lead .

 

[Woofbark]

Hall was ruled out on the basis of a polygraph, which for multiple reasons I don't trust in his case.

When I look at the evidence in favor of him, he 1) matches almost precisely the early composite drawing, 2) he drove a van of the same rare model as the van noted by multiple witnesses, 3) he was in town for a civil war reenactment 4) he was known to stalk his victims, 5) he wasn't afraid to go into homes to commit his crimes, 6) He used chloroform 7) He was extremely careful not to leave any evidence anywhere during the commission of crimes 8) he confessed to taking them with two other perp(s) which would explain how the crime was carried out, 9) Stacy McCall looks extremely similar to Tricia Reitler who disappeared from another college campus one year later. 10) Tricia Reitlers clothing was also found "neatly folded" after she disappeared 11) He confessed to killing Michelle Dewey in 1991 and her son was found unharmed in a closet 12) no history of harming animals ....I could go on. There are just too many matches for me to dismiss him based on a poly. Exploring the contradictions in Janelle/Mike/KK's testimony may eventually lead me in another direction, but for now, I personally think he is by far the most likely. Just my opinion.

The Grave robbing theory looks good at first, but it falls apart in my mind once you realize how little her testimony added to the case and how others with much more information went on unharmed. Additionally, taking Stacy and Sherrill would make this a MUCH more difficult crime to perpetuate. Finally, I don't think the grave robbers could have done this without leaving tons of evidence. They were far from criminal masterminds.

Larry hall could have been involved. His brother didn't always travel with him. So, if there were 3 culprits, who are the other two? On December 13, 2013 someone calling his self anonymous posted online claiming to have witnessed the murders. He mentions three men involved as you have suggested. Anonymous posted on a site called crimesceneinvestigations.blogspot.com
I have no way to tell if that person is telling the truth or not. It is interesting though. Larry Hall was living with his parents, In Wabash Indiana, when these crimes took place. I wonder if anyone has ever thought to search and dig at that property? It couldn't hurt.

 

[Ozoner]

I don’t want to get too far in the weeds but in my opinion that angle is super important. What went on that night is probably key to what happened later. As I said earlier, this was glossed over in the rendition of events that night. And I can’t understand why. It is one of the axioms of murder case investigations to thoroughly question the people who were among the last to be with the victims, although I rule out Janelle and Mike H.

As an example in virtually all cases involving spouses the very first suspects are always the spouses. The percentages of involvement are astoundingly high. Since no one here was married, who were the ones closest and perhaps seeking intimate relations?

Yes, I would want to thoroughly question everyone who was at that party that night. And very often there will be old memories revived with information that was not previously known to the police investigators.

That “stomach ache” would be a perfect excuse to want to get back home where the security of home would be expected.

The three main motives to murder are sex, money and drugs. Since, money and drugs have been ruled out, that leaves sex.

Suggestion: The 1992 Kickapoo yearbook is available on the internet. There was one photo that particularly caught my attention. I would suggest looking at friendships. The answer might be found there.

Money and drugs haven't been ruled out. Petty theft can be ruled out, but many have speculated that Sherrill was targeted because of what she knew about a large-scale drug/money-laundering operation. That could be true regardless of whether the women are buried under the PFI parking lot. (That seems like a long shot, but has the owner ever allowed a ground-penetrating-radar sweep?)

 

[Valiant]

Money and drugs haven't been ruled out. Petty theft can be ruled out, but many have speculated that Sherrill was targeted because of what she knew about a large-scale drug/money-laundering operation. That could be true regardless of whether the women are buried under the PFI parking lot. (That seems like a long shot, but has the owner ever allowed a ground-penetrating-radar sweep?)

I agree. money and/or drugs could be a reason. And I say this without any victim blaming. All it takes is for someone to think one or all of the three knew about something or did something and there then can be a reason to silence or eliminate them. I really think someone in that group of last people to see them that night/people at the house the next day are involved in a "six degrees of separation" scenario. They may not be the kidnappers or killers, but may suspect their actions played into the helping the perpetrators plan and get away with the crime.

 

[eyeseestars]

Larry hall could have been involved. His brother didn't always travel with him. So, if there were 3 culprits, who are the other two? On December 13, 2013 someone calling his self anonymous posted online claiming to have witnessed the murders. He mentions three men involved as you have suggested. Anonymous posted on a site called crimesceneinvestigations.blogspot.com
I have no way to tell if that person is telling the truth or not. It is interesting though. Larry Hall was living with his parents, In Wabash Indiana, when these crimes took place. I wonder if anyone has ever thought to search and dig at that property? It couldn't hurt.

The parents live(d) at the cemetery where his dad was sexton. Possible they’re there but I believe at least the mausoleums were searched already. According to the two books written on hall, the location of victims were marked by Larry on maps which were sent to his father and/or brother. He suggests that using these maps Larry created, his accomplices moved bodies and burned other evidence in barrels after his arrest. Larry carved little bird figures for each body to “watch” over them. (Soothing OCD tendencies maybe? I have the beginnings of a theory about potential locations but still flushing it out in my head and they may have been moved anyway). Has to do with eagles.

there are two books on LDH. If they are to be believed, Larry sometimes killed alone but he mostly had at least one accomplice who he says was his brother. The other’s identity is only hinted at and I believe died a few years ago. This friend was present with Larry and Gary in the 80’s when they first “picked up a woman and had their way with her” according to a wabash police investigator who talked to Gary (the twin who was never arrested told him this). I was kind of stunned when I read that this was admitted to by Gary to the police.

In his admission to the author of Urges, where larry says they took the SPF3 and buried them in the Mark Twain National Forest somewhere, Larry tells the author that both of these accomplices were with him. He also said he’s “tired of covering for Gary.” The author also says that according to family members, both brothers were at this particular reenactment. So at least to me, the twin is a very very likely co-conspirator. It also makes sense when looking at Larry’s psych profile.

Sorry if this is hard to read, haven’t had my coffee yet.

 

[eyeseestars]

I highly recommend both books:

urges:a chronicle of serial killer Larry Hall by Christopher Martin and also

In with the devil by James Keene.

The author of urges also has a fb page with tons of interesting comments on posts. Some comments have been taken down in the past year, I wish I had saved screen shots.

all heresay and not proven of course, but interesting nonetheless from a sleuthing perspective

 

[kashmir]

Excellent posts as always, eyeseestars. So where do the missing women and the Halls intersect?
Did events distracting and upsetting to Susie and Stacy leave them in a vulnerable state of mind that evening?

 

[the_p0ssum]

As far as the bed is concerned, I don't know who or why it was rearranged. What I do know, is there are or was at least two pictures showing the arrangement of the covers and sheets that differ from each other.


It would not surprise me if LE took photographs when they first came in the house and then rearrange things as they were told it was found by "friends and family."

The attached article talks about how LE went back to "recreate" the interior based on what they "believe the inside" of the home looked like. That's likely why the bed looked different, but it's interesting that they would have gone to that extent - adjusting how the covers were oriented on Sherrill's bed. I wonder if they thought something significant occurred in her bedroom?

 

[lisaNYC]

The attached article talks about how LE went back to "recreate" the interior based on what they "believe the inside" of the home looked like. That's likely why the bed looked different, but it's interesting that they would have gone to that extent - adjusting how the covers were oriented on Sherrill's bed. I wonder if they thought something significant occurred in her bedroom?

I wonder if the people who went in the house before the police had the audacity to go into Sherrill's room and violate her privacy. If they were so concerned about the women that they would go into someone's house uninvited then why did it take them so long to call the police?

 

[eyeseestars]

Excellent posts as always, eyeseestars. So where do the missing women and the Halls intersect?
Did events distracting and upsetting to Susie and Stacy leave them in a vulnerable state of mind that evening?

based on the composite matching hall’s description and the van sightings around sherill’s home in the days before the disappearance, I personally think that Susie was the primary target. Maybe both she and Sherrill but most likely Susie. If you look through hall’s presumed victim list, the areas around college campuses were prime trolling areas for this guy and I believe there is a college very close to the Delmar house. (Someone correct me if this is wrong).

I saw someone mention on Kathy bairds site that Larry had a note in his van that said “Branson.” Again, no hard evidence for this and my opinion only, but IF it was true, maybe at some point the perp(s) discovered the plan to go to Branson and followed her around from a distance that night waiting for the chance to grab her, but, as someone else noted, she was too protected by appleby until she got home. Stacy being in a separate car would have also presented a potential problem until they were both inside.

edit to note- I tend to discount Sherrill being the primary target as she was alone for plenty of time prior to the abduction and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the girls had arrived when it finally occurred. Stacy I discount as the target due to the sightings of the van and man in the Delmar neighborhood prior to the 6th, but again that’s putting some faith in the witness statements.

 

[eyeseestars]

I wonder if the people who went in the house before the police had the audacity to go into Sherrill's room and violate her privacy. If they were so concerned about the women that they would go into someone's house uninvited then why did it take them so long to call the police?

I totally totally agree. It’s strange enough to go into someone’s home uninvited and listen to messages, sit down and make coffee....it’s on an entirely different level of disbelief that someone would go poking around in her BED.

 

[Ozoner]

I totally totally agree. It’s strange enough to go into someone’s home uninvited and listen to messages, sit down and make coffee....it’s on an entirely different level of disbelief that someone would go poking around in her BED.

back in the 70s and 80s, it wouldn't have been that unusual to go into someone's house if the door was unlocked. Back then we would walk right into people's houses and yell, "Is anyone home?" instead of knocking on the door. It was a different era. By 1992 that would have been uncommon in the suburbs here in Michigan but still normal in small towns.

 

[Hobgoblinmarket]

Janelle's story in the initial police report and throughout early media interviews was that she called at 7:30, went to the house at 12:30 and then returned at 7:30. Two visits, no mention of the phone calls while she was there.

On July 20, FBI agent says that "there are people with knowledge who don't feel good about the knowledge they have and may be afraid of the primary kidnapper". Police Chief Terry Knowles says that "the department would protect those who provide information if necessary."

On July 21, FBI says "secondary players may fear going to the police because they think the primary culprit would retaliate."

It is about a week after this, August 3, that (as far as I can tell) the "obscene phone call" is first mentioned. Says it was erased "by someone who came looking for the women before officers were called."

A year later, Janelle's story has changed and now she started calling at 8:30. Now she goes back for a visit at 3:30 that we didn't know about. Now two "obscene phone calls" happened while she was there. Now, she's crying in the backseat of the car after those calls.

Looking back at the case, several police investigators felt like Terry Knowles hampered the investigation and wouldn't let them fully do their jobs.

If only it could be figured the heck out why he hampered.