Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[Sophie-Renee]

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[Sophie-Renee]

As regards the Fernand link- I wonder how Sally has found about the length of time Fernand has been with his partner , not being the same length as what he originally stated. I wonder if the police are finally questioning him? The next question is, if this Trendwest Remakel was the F. Remakel in Luxembourg- he has not been using that name in which to travel to Australia and from Australia back to Europe. Even if it is NOT that Remakel, - it could be someones' passport name is REAL but they lived in the country with a Remakel alias OR they are really called Remakel - but are using an alias for their passport...without name changes, this could be stolen identity.

I know it may be a bit of a stab in the dark- but how about, Marion took the name Remakel to return and Remakel travelled took one of Marions... Wilson, Warren, Brown or Barter. Like I say, a throwing it out there idea...and yes very awkward especially with the common occurence of the surnames Wilson and Brown- but I think anyone who returned on the same flight as Florabella with one of these surnames, would be worth tracking down and speaking to.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I'd also like clarification on the marriage in Luxembourg thing. Only spouses can apply for the certificate, apparently. But does that mean the register of marriages is closed to search too? It would be very unusual if that were the case. Across Europe, marriage is a public act and government recorded. You might not be able to get a certificate, but the fact that two people got married isn't a secret.

I'm wondering if whether the time Marion spent in Sussex she then changed her name again. The whole topic of nationality, immigration and passports is so complex. Agree with whoever pointed out upthread that if Marion was on a tourist visa to the UK, that would prohibit her from marrying here. But do we know what visa she was on? And could she have, in theory, changed her name again in Europe, then got married again under her new identity? If that's the case, it's like a needle in a haystack. You'd have to look at every marriage in July 1997 in Western Europe.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I'd also like clarification on the marriage in Luxembourg thing. Only spouses can apply for the certificate, apparently. But does that mean the register of marriages is closed to search too? It would be very unusual if that were the case. Across Europe, marriage is a public act and government recorded. You might not be able to get a certificate, but the fact that two people got married isn't a secret.

I'm wondering if whether the time Marion spent in Sussex she then changed her name again. The whole topic of nationality, immigration and passports is so complex. Agree with whoever pointed out upthread that if Marion was on a tourist visa to the UK, that would prohibit her from marrying here. But do we know what visa she was on? And could she have, in theory, changed her name again in Europe, then got married again under her new identity? If that's the case, it's like a needle in a haystack. You'd have to look at every marriage in July 1997 in Western Europe.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I can make no sense of patents- but for those of you that can, this is the patent for a suction tube , invented by Fernand Remakel in 1997- 2 of the dates fall in the time Marion was away..would Fernand needed to be present at the time of filing to sign papers? I have no idea how it all works..maybe someone else can make more sense of what would be needed at that time from Mr Remakel..

EP0893089A1 - Telescopic suction tube for vacuum cleaner, locking device for this tube and application of this device in a suction tube - Google Patents

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I can make no sense of patents- but for those of you that can, this is the patent for a suction tube , invented by Fernand Remakel in 1997- 2 of the dates fall in the time Marion was away..would Fernand needed to be present at the time of filing to sign papers? I have no idea how it all works..maybe someone else can make more sense of what would be needed at that time from Mr Remakel..

EP0893089A1 - Telescopic suction tube for vacuum cleaner, locking device for this tube and application of this device in a suction tube - Google Patents

Very interesting that the date the patent was filed was 27th July 1997.
Could be total coincidence or the time when he and Marian potentially traveled to Luxembourg - timing would line up.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Very interesting that the date the patent was filed was 27th July 1997.
Could be total coincidence or the time when he and Marian potentially traveled to Luxembourg - timing would line up.

Yes and there starts to become so many strands even just to that. Would ferdinand be needed a day before or week before a filing? Or can it take weeks to file? For arguments sake if the date means when it was all signed and sealed and filed.. then there are a couple of scenarios. If Marion did in fact call Sally from the UK and accompanied ferdinand overseas for 25th July , she then returned back again to the UK by end of August and then on to Australia via South Korea on way back. We know she was in UK at some point because of postmarks, but I forget do we have those specific dates for what was posted from the UK? Or would Mr remakel risk leaving Marion in the UK while he carried out his business? I somehow doubt this, though. Unless someone else was involved and keeping an eye on Marion.

Sally said she had a time delay on the call when she heard from her mum on 31st July, but that time delay could have occurred whatever country she was in... Whether Luxembourg, Hong Kong or the UK. It is such a shame that the in between stops where Marion travelled after Hong Kong and before her return flight via South Korea.. (is that the right way around???) is untraceable by interpol. All her movements in between would have been so helpful to dismissing some theories and holding on to others. I may listen back on some podcasts, but if anyone can recall specific dates on postmarks would be great to jog my memory!

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I'd also like clarification on the marriage in Luxembourg thing. Only spouses can apply for the certificate, apparently. But does that mean the register of marriages is closed to search too? It would be very unusual if that were the case. Across Europe, marriage is a public act and government recorded. You might not be able to get a certificate, but the fact that two people got married isn't a secret.

I'm wondering if whether the time Marion spent in Sussex she then changed her name again. The whole topic of nationality, immigration and passports is so complex. Agree with whoever pointed out upthread that if Marion was on a tourist visa to the UK, that would prohibit her from marrying here. But do we know what visa she was on? And could she have, in theory, changed her name again in Europe, then got married again under her new identity? If that's the case, it's like a needle in a haystack. You'd have to look at every marriage in July 1997 in Western Europe.

So true and for what it's worth the UK records are searchable for 1997. There is no recording under a remakel at all, let alone in that area of the UK in 1997. I did find a marriage record for a FLORBELLA, but also found a birth record for that person in the UK and in the 1960s. Just incase she had changed her name slightly and surname and then flew back out of Australia! But that was another theory closed.

I did do some searching under natalia and and Marion too.. of course there were loads and completely different surnames, but just incase anything jumped out as similar.. but no. It seems pretty clear she did not marry while in the UK.. even though we pretty much focused on Luxembourg.. I did have a search a week or so ago and the only marriage records that can be viewed publicly are historical ones. I cannot remember when from but about 50 or 75 or even 100 years ago I think.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I have done a bit of research about deed poll, which is the UK service for changing your name. Foreign nationals can change their name using Deed Poll if they want to do so. It says that they should check first that the UK deed poll change would be recognised in their home country - wouldn't think this would be an issue with Australia. All it says is that you need a residential address where they can send the paperwork too - not a problem if you're staying in a guesthouse for a few weeks.

So there is the possibility of the following chain of events:
1. Marion changes her name to Florabella Remakel in Australia.
2. Flies to the UK and enters as Remakel.
3. Changes her name via deed poll in the UK/Europe to something else, say Jane Doe.
4. Marries somewhere in Europe under the Jane Doe identity.
5. Flies back to Australia as Florabella Ramekel - legal as long as the ticket name matches the passport name.
6. Uses her British deedpoll and marriage certificate from wherever to get a new passport issued in her Jane Doe identity. (Withdrawing money from her account while waiting for passport to be issued, and surrendering her Florabella passport).
7. Leaves Australia on her new identity.

Not a lawyer and certainly not an immigration expert, but plausible?

 

[Mjjj14]

I have done a bit of research about deed poll, which is the UK service for changing your name. Foreign nationals can change their name using Deed Poll if they want to do so. It says that they should check first that the UK deed poll change would be recognised in their home country - wouldn't think this would be an issue with Australia. All it says is that you need a residential address where they can send the paperwork too - not a problem if you're staying in a guesthouse for a few weeks.

So there is the possibility of the following chain of events:
1. Marion changes her name to Florabella Remakel in Australia.
2. Flies to the UK and enters as Remakel.
3. Changes her name via deed poll in the UK/Europe to something else, say Jane Doe.
4. Marries somewhere in Europe under the Jane Doe identity.
5. Flies back to Australia as Florabella Ramekel - legal as long as the ticket name matches the passport name.
6. Uses her British deedpoll and marriage certificate from wherever to get a new passport issued in her Jane Doe identity. (Withdrawing money from her account while waiting for passport to be issued, and surrendering her Florabella passport).
7. Leaves Australia on her new identity.

Not a lawyer and certainly not an immigration expert, but plausible?

I’m not sure but could we assume that when an Australian changes their name vis deed poll in the UK that it would alert the relevant Australian body? Surely that would’ve come up on G Sheehans searches, noting that he said she had no further name changes.

I am firmly in the camp that Marion assumed someone else’s identity via illegal means, probably with the help of a third party because she doesn’t seem like the type of person who would know how to source a false identity herself.

 

[Mjjj14]

Imo - The timeshare company employee allegedly named Remakel is interesting but really can’t be taken as fact just yet. Hopefully the police will be able to make enquiries about the employees working there at the time.

If there was a person working there with that name, it really couldn’t have been Fernand because the police confirmed that no person besides Marion/Florabella entered the country throughout that time period.

After hearing the updated episode and conversations, my gut feeling/speculation is this:

A man likely from Luxembourg comes to Australia and begins to tell people he is F Remakel. He is from Luxembourg himself so he is familiar with the real ex-footballer Fernand Remakel. He likely tells people he is a former soccer player, this is probably a hit with the ladies/whoever else he wants to con. Perhaps he writes he letter in the French newspaper. The scam goes on for some time, the man may have got some money from some unassuming women but hasn’t ‘caught a big fish’ yet so to speak. Perhaps his work takes him to multiple locations in Australia.

Marion then meets the man masquerading as F Remakel. She falls in love with him and does not realise that he is not who he says he is. The con begins. Maybe he tells her not to tell anyone about him, he might’ve convinced her that he had some high profile job or something like that. Perhaps he convinces her to leave Australia without telling her family.

Marion is portrayed (in my opinion) by the podcast as being a bit of a romantic. Perhaps she decides that because she’s in love with someone with the surname Remakel and intends on marrying him, she chose to change her name to that in advance prior to marriage so she blends in better when she gets to Luxembourg. She tells nobody about the name change because the conman has convinced her it needs to remain secret for whatever reason.

She then leaves and goes to the Sussex/Kent area where she then leaves the UK without having her passport documented. She then likely travels to Luxembourg for a period of time. I speculate that the man assists Marion in obtaining a false/stolen Luxembourgish or other European identity at this time.

Here’s where the complication begins- maybe they find out once they’re in Luxembourg that she is unable to withdraw the remainder of her money whilst overseas and needs to return home to get it. The only reason why she would’ve done it in increments that I can think of would be to avoid detection by the FTRA. Maybe she then deposits the money into an international bank account again in increments. Maybe the account is in someone else’s name and at this stage hasn’t been looked into.

From here, perhaps Marion uses the false identity to travel back to Luxembourg/Western Europe.

What happens after that is anyone’s guess.

That’s probably a crazy theory but I think it is really the only plausible thing that makes sense in my mind after considering all the information we have at this point.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I have thoguht for a long time that the person who placed the ad wasn't F Ramekel. Possibly a married man, posted to Aus and looking for fun on the side. Or given that the French speaking community was so small, someone who didn't want to "out" himself as posting a lonely hearts ad and get stick from his mates.

And remember - there's no proof that Marion ever saw the ad, never mind replied to it.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Imo - The timeshare company employee allegedly named Remakel is interesting but really can’t be taken as fact just yet. Hopefully the police will be able to make enquiries about the employees working there at the time.

If there was a person working there with that name, it really couldn’t have been Fernand because the police confirmed that no person besides Marion/Florabella entered the country throughout that time period.

After hearing the updated episode and conversations, my gut feeling/speculation is this:

A man likely from Luxembourg comes to Australia and begins to tell people he is F Remakel. He is from Luxembourg himself so he is familiar with the real ex-footballer Fernand Remakel. He likely tells people he is a former soccer player, this is probably a hit with the ladies/whoever else he wants to con. Perhaps he writes he letter in the French newspaper. The scam goes on for some time, the man may have got some money from some unassuming women but hasn’t ‘caught a big fish’ yet so to speak. Perhaps his work takes him to multiple locations in Australia.

Marion then meets the man masquerading as F Remakel. She falls in love with him and does not realise that he is not who he says he is. The con begins. Maybe he tells her not to tell anyone about him, he might’ve convinced her that he had some high profile job or something like that. Perhaps he convinces her to leave Australia without telling her family.

Marion is portrayed (in my opinion) by the podcast as being a bit of a romantic. Perhaps she decides that because she’s in love with someone with the surname Remakel and intends on marrying him, she chose to change her name to that in advance prior to marriage so she blends in better when she gets to Luxembourg. She tells nobody about the name change because the conman has convinced her it needs to remain secret for whatever reason.

She then leaves and goes to the Sussex/Kent area where she then leaves the UK without having her passport documented. She then likely travels to Luxembourg for a period of time. I speculate that the man assists Marion in obtaining a false/stolen Luxembourgish or other European identity at this time.

Here’s where the complication begins- maybe they find out once they’re in Luxembourg that she is unable to withdraw the remainder of her money whilst overseas and needs to return home to get it. The only reason why she would’ve done it in increments that I can think of would be to avoid detection by the FTRA. Maybe she then deposits the money into an international bank account again in increments. Maybe the account is in someone else’s name and at this stage hasn’t been looked into.

From here, perhaps Marion uses the false identity to travel back to Luxembourg/Western Europe.

What happens after that is anyone’s guess.

That’s probably a crazy theory but I think it is really the only plausible thing that makes sense in my mind after considering all the information we have at this point.

As far as a name change in the UK goes, readers can be accessed in the UK for deed polls from the 1800s up to 2015. Of course..probably inaccessible at the moment, as you need to visit the Natonal Archives, or else pay someone to research it. Something to bear in mind though on the off chance she did in fact do another name change in the UK and just flew back to Australia on the Florabella passport. Not sure about getting access to Luxembourg deed polls though..I think it is stricter. The link is titled 1916-1971, but if you scroll down it talks about accessing later deed polls.

Deed Poll Office (D·P·O)

 

[Meligator]

Regarding naming conventions in Luxembourg, perhaps she’s using Marion as a last name (i.e. Florabella Natalia Marion), with the Remakel intended to represent a name by marriage (husband last name), but by convention is not used. Just a thought.

 

[poppypopcorn]

I don't have access to Ancestry or other databases... but is it possible to search for weddings with the birthdate of the spouse alone? As Marion was a lot older than your typical demographic for marrying, that would cut down the number of July 1997 marriages considerably.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I don't have access to Ancestry or other databases... but is it possible to search for weddings with the birthdate of the spouse alone? As Marion was a lot older than your typical demographic for marrying, that would cut down the number of July 1997 marriages considerably.

I could try. I have a feeling putting in an estimated birthdate say for example when you are in the category marriages, automatically then searches birth records. In marriages they tend to ask for names and year of marriage itself as a guideline- but could have a go at it.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

What motive would Marion have to change her name again, but in Europe? Legally or illegally?

Yet return to Australia on her Florabella passport? A passport that remained active and without use until it expired in 2007.

What purpose would a European name change serve? Was she there even long enough to have it done or do anything with it?

A naive, little house on the prairie type kindergarten teacher with no history of trouble in 50+ years.

She goes missing, her bank accounts were drained, she was seen with a mysterious man beforehand - 99.9% of the time, we know what this means.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

What motive would Marion have to change her name again, but in Europe? Legally or illegally?

Yet return to Australia on her Florabella passport? A passport that remained active and without use until it expired in 2007.

What purpose would a European name change serve? Was she there even long enough to have it done or do anything with it?

A naive, little house on the prairie type kindergarten teacher with no history of trouble in 50+ years.

She goes missing, her bank accounts were drained, she was seen with a mysterious man beforehand - 99.9% of the time, we know what this means.

A high chance- nothing. A high chance she made no such change..but either way no Florabella Remakel left Australia since then. However, no sight of Marion since 1997 and no evidence of her death either...all avenues and possibilities, however small or unlikely must be exhausted.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I don't have access to Ancestry or other databases... but is it possible to search for weddings with the birthdate of the spouse alone? As Marion was a lot older than your typical demographic for marrying, that would cut down the number of July 1997 marriages considerably.

Mainland European marriages on Ancestry don't seem to be available. Certainly not outwith historic ones. There are a few people with Marion's date of birth, who married in 1997 but all come up as marrying in the US. They all also, give details of parents (none of the names match with Marion's parents). The only other one which doesn's states the marriage took place in the US on 14th June 1997- at which point Marion was still in Australia. So am afraid, it didn't turn up anything.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I get the sense many on here want to participate and are enthusiastic to search.

Seeing as the link I provided earlier didn't work, here is REMA Invest, the company formed by Fernand, his mother, partner, sister and sister's husband, on 9 August 2010.

From what I can tell, he tends to name his companies Rema Invest or Rema Investments.

There's a whole bunch of them worldwide. You can google the addresses and see they don't look like property and real estate investment businesses at all. Some are super dodgy.

I even found one that may be associated with the Panama Papers - a document leak in 2016 of offshore companies that 'business people' use to move money around, undetected and without links to themselves. It's legal but essentially how people launder money, commit fraud and evade tax.

Can't say for sure these are Fernand's. The only real link is the one with his family mentioned. Here are some names you can search for:

Fernand Remakel - 2 December 1947
Mother: Anne-Marie Jungblut - 19 June 1923
Partner: Marie-Josée Noe - 26 May 1954
Sister: Marianne Remakel - 27 August 1950
Sister’s husband: Carlo Schlesser - 30 August 1951

Here are another two:
Graham Childs (former Byron Bay Police)
Graham Patrick Higgins (former Commonwealth Bank Manager)

Knock yourself out.