FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #7

[rd_jfc]

left, first of all, complexes don't hire a bunch of anybody, they contract the work out.

secondly, yes, when the police are all over the place, guess what, a good portion of the illegals are going to bail out before the bus gets there.

thirdly, it's ridiculous that a bunch of illegal contractors were staying at the Mosaic, I don't care who's pushing that gem. That's like saying the kitchen help is staying in the penthouse at the Hilton.

fourthly, contractors don't get mini vanned in to work at a complex and then one just disappears for half the day, then a resident is found gone, and they all go, oops, let's scram for the hills or whatever.

fifth, most assuredly the police would say who was your contractor, and the Mosaic would say so and so, and then the police would go to the contractor and say who did you have working there? Was their time accounted for? etc.

And of course, the police needed to check with residents on what they saw or might know, anything suspicious noted before, etc., and the friends who stayed in her apartment that weekend.

So yes, this would be the obvious short list of a basic investigation, which of course they had to have done. We know some things they didn't do, but there's no way around this list and still call it an investigation.

rd

 

[leftcoast]

left, first of all, complexes don't hire a bunch of anybody, they contract the work out.

secondly, yes, when the police are all over the place, guess what, a good portion of the illegals are going to bail out before the bus gets there.

thirdly, it's ridiculous that a bunch of illegal contractors were staying at the Mosaic, I don't care who's pushing that gem. That's like saying the kitchen help is staying in the penthouse at the Hilton.

fourthly, contractors don't get mini vanned in to work at a complex and then one just disappears for half the day, then a resident is found gone, and they all go, oops, let's scram for the hills or whatever.

fifth, most assuredly the police would say who was your contractor, and the Mosaic would say so and so, and then the police would go to the contractor and say who did you have working there? Was their time accounted for? etc.

And of course, the police needed to check with residents on what they saw or might know, anything suspicious noted before, etc., and the friends who stayed in her apartment that weekend.

So yes, this would be the obvious short list of a basic investigation, which of course they had to have done. We know some things they didn't do, but there's no way around this list and still call it an investigation.

rd

How do you know this? Of course, a huge construction project is going to need the hiring of contractors. That is why I said a complete list of Mosaic employees, and sub's used.

With such a large undertaking, it is "NOT" out of the ordinary, for a complex to hire people directly, to do mundane work, such as drywall, or painting, and have them simply go from unit to unit until the conversion is finished. And having this people receiving housing, as a way to get them a place to live, and to reduce the amount of money Mosaic would have to pay them for their services, is not out of the question. As a matter of fact, I've seen it done. It is not that uncommon.

In addition, whenever you own a complex, you are going to have employees, one's who sell units, security, groundskeeping, maintenance, etc. How do you know all of these people are sub's, and not employees of Mosaic?

2nd: You said when the police are all over, the illegals will bail. Well, according to Drew, and he was in the know, half the staff was cut the day after Jk went missing, and that some of the illegals were housed at Mosaic. So, I am going from what Drew said.

3rd: We're not talking about the Hilton. Again, Drew said that some of the illegals were being housed at Mosaic. Why is this so out of the ordinary? When illegals are hired to pick strawberries, or work farms, they are sometimes housed right on the property. If half of the units at Mosiac were empty, and were being converted from apartments, into condo's, why is this out of the question. Truth is, Drew has spent a year and a half on this case, I think he knows what he is talking about.

4th" Again, none of us were there when this happened.

I do have a friend, who is a contractor, and I know for a fact, that illegal's usually stay within a group. Many of them, are housed together, sometimes, up to 20 people to an apartment complex. Also, many dont' have cars, or licenses, and are shuttled to work by employers.

Also, many use the same social security number, in order to appear legit, and "dirty SS numbers are available, to give the impression they are legal.

Fifth: Drew pointed this out on Greta. Whenever a huge construction project is going on, there are going to be a variety of sub-contractors, who are going to be employed.

You have formers, drywall, painters, tile, plumbers, electrical, roofers, insulation, cement, window installers, and that isn't even mentioning the landscapers, the cable installers, phone installers, alarm companies, dish network. Some of the work can be done by in-house employees, and some are done by sub's.

So, we are going to assume that a sub-contractor knowingly using illegal workers, is going to be honest with LE, and give the names, of all the people who worked at Mosaic, and not worry about being fined, or losing his contractor's license. I dont' buy that.

On top of this, like Drew pointed out, there are going to be people who own their condo's, and hire contractors to come in and do work on their units, unrelated to Mosaic.

In addition, what about the contractors who did work in November on Jk's place, and then moved on? Will they even be remembered.

I've said it a million times, the POI might not even be an illegal alien. But, the Kesse's, and LE, seem to be leaning in that direction.

So, that idea needs to be explored, and eliminated, as much as possible.

This guy, could end up being white, average height, bald, and nobody would recognize him while wearing a hat, and the outfit the POI is seen in.

But, whoever pulled the plug, and told the illegals to move on, needs to answer questions, and now.

left

 

[SeriouslySearching]

thirdly, it's ridiculous that a bunch of illegal contractors were staying at the Mosaic, I don't care who's pushing that gem. That's like saying the kitchen help is staying in the penthouse at the Hilton.

rd

Actually, you are mistaken. I used to live in a very nice apartment complex and families of illegals from Mexico moved into several apartments. They only brought in mattresses..no furniture...slept a minimum of six to a room including living rooms, dining and bedrooms so they could afford the rent. The men of the group worked mainly as cement contractors, kitchen workers, and roofers. After management found out about their living arrangements...they were finally asked to leave. So YES I will push that "gem" as you call it. It IS done as I have seen it more than once.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Large groups of legals and illegals live together in single family homes all over the country. Usually men in their twenties or thirties. The method used to work is that a cousin, brother, friend will lend the legal drivers license, social security card to the illegal so he is actual working legally but using someone else i.d. So the legal person gets credit for the all the taxes taken out and gets a big hefty income tax return because it looks like he had two jobs. They win all the way around.
I actually had one come back to work and tell me this and wanted to see if he could come back to work now that he was legal. I explained how wrong it was and we (he and I) decided he better go work somewhere else. He had used his cousins i.d. and they looked very much alike. I liked him, he was really a nice guy.But...
I also was in the house they were all staying at once. They were a little nervous, but I was there because I had to take one home that had gotten hurt on the job, they had to take care of him for awhile. They were the best employees we ever had. Always on time, always did their job and never gave us a hard time about anything. And we paid them well.

 

[Enrique Sparta]

they were staying there too? where did all those illegals stay? in unused apartments?

 

[leftcoast]

they were staying there too? where did all those illegals stay? in unused apartments?

Yes, Enrique

According to Drew's comments on Greta the other night, which are avialable in transcript form on the web, some of the illegals were staying in units on the grounds of Mosaic.

Drew didn't give specifics.

But, one could assume that maybe they were units that were not yet converted, or were in the process of being converted into condo's.

left

 

[Beyond Belief]

Well, if they were staying there, there should be video in the local stores of them and/or at the bank where they cashed their checks.

 

[Enrique Sparta]

yeah I heard that but wasn't sure what he meant.

pathetic they would allow them to do that. who wants their future home being occupied by illegal immigrants?

why are they being hired anyway? i know i know so they can pay them lower wages.

it makes sense that with all the cops around, they fled. they are illegal after all. although here in LA, illegals can do whatever they want and suffer no repercussions.


the abductor was not an illegal alien in my opinion. it was somebody who was pretty smart and not a first time offender cause the first thing that person did (after rendering her unconscious or tying her up) was find her cell phone and turn it off. they knew that LE often catches criminals today by cell phone triangulation. her cell phone would not have been off. nobody turns their cell phone off, never, unless they must do so in an airplane. But that's the only place where it's mandatory to turn them off. we know the cops gained no information from her cell phone cause they are stumped and are no closer to catching this guy or finding jennifer than they were 1 year and a half ago. The truth is they never had anything other than some hooker that kinda looked like JK and was actually named Jennifer as well. that's pretty much it. maybe they have some dna in the car, maybe they have an odd landline call, but the case is cold and getting colder and whatever they do have isn't enough. I bet there is no DNA in the car by the way, maybe a hair, i dunno. I don't think any fingerprints though.

 

[rd_jfc]

With such a large undertaking, it is "NOT" out of the ordinary, for a complex to hire people directly, to do mundane work, such as drywall, or painting, and have them simply go from unit to unit until the conversion is finished.

this is totally bogus. I have no idea where you could get an idea like this.

When illegals are hired to pick strawberries, or work farms, they are sometimes housed right on the property

in substandard housing, not in expensive condos.

rd

 

[rd_jfc]

Actually, you are mistaken. I used to live in a very nice apartment complex and families of illegals from Mexico moved into several apartments. They only brought in mattresses..no furniture...slept a minimum of six to a room including living rooms, dining and bedrooms so they could afford the rent. The men of the group worked mainly as cement contractors, kitchen workers, and roofers. After management found out about their living arrangements...they were finally asked to leave. So YES I will push that "gem" as you call it. It IS done as I have seen it more than once.

actually, I'm not mistaken. I didn't say they didn't live anywhere, I said it's a gem that the Mosaic put a bunch of illegal contractors up in their condos while they were working on the place.

rd

 

[leftcoast]

With such a large undertaking, it is "NOT" out of the ordinary, for a complex to hire people directly, to do mundane work, such as drywall, or painting, and have them simply go from unit to unit until the conversion is finished.

this is totally bogus. I have no idea where you could get an idea like this.

When illegals are hired to pick strawberries, or work farms, they are sometimes housed right on the property

in substandard housing, not in expensive condos.

rd

Like I stated earlier, my best friend is a contractor, and I've been to quite a few construction sites, so, I know this firsthand.

I've seen it with my own eyes. I've seen owners of a complex, have workers, live on location, while a new complex is being built. Actually, I've seen it quite a few times. On one occasion, employees would stay in their own trailers, on another, the employees stayed in a house that was on site, until the complex was complete. It is also used, when employees live far from the construction site.

You don't think it is possible, that Mosaic hired a foreman, to do the grunt work, and, he hired local workers, to get the units ready for the sub's, to do electrical, and plumbing? So, the owner's of Mosaic are going to hire a sub, to do grunt work, when they can hire illegals, and save up to 50% of the costs, and get some of money back, in the form of rent. It's actually a cushy setup.

Have you ever seen who puts up the concrete walls, who does drywall, who does painting, etc. Many of these jobs are done by illegals. Drew said Mosaic cut their staff by half overnight. Are you saying that Drew is wrong?

Second: Drew is the one who said that some of the worker's were living on site. HE never said it was in new condo's, or units that hadn't been converted, or what type of living arrangement. He simply said some of them were living on the premises.

Why would you argue with something a man said, whose daughter lived at the complex, has spent the past 18 months looking for his daughter, and has stayed on site at Mosaic, trying to get answers?

left

 

[rd_jfc]

because regardless whatever he said or meant, expensive condo complexes don't put up the remodelling workers in their condos while the complex is being converted.

I don't even care to go wherever "not in the condos" might mean.

and I don't have any idea from your post how you are arriving at these workers being employees if the Mosaic. Both the contractor and employees likely required being bonded and uniformed (by a colored and labelled shirt).

Yes, many of the employees had fake id's, no doubt, but the company has something on each one to show the police, however bogus it was.

I know how badly you want to make it possible that someone at the Mosaic did this, and maybe others too, I guess.

But no, complexes don't hire remodelling workers, they don't put them up in condos, and they don't "lay off" workers they didn't hire.

But did half the workers quit showing up for work while cops are running around? No doubt.

Like I said to start with, the police had to have talked to the contractor and the workers there that day to be able to call it an investigation.

rd

 

[rd_jfc]

...the abductor was not an illegal alien in my opinion. it was somebody who was pretty smart and not a first time offender cause the first thing that person did (after rendering her unconscious or tying her up) was find her cell phone and turn it off. they knew that LE often catches criminals today by cell phone triangulation. her cell phone would not have been off. nobody turns their cell phone off, never, unless they must do so in an airplane. But that's the only place where it's mandatory to turn them off. we know the cops gained no information from her cell phone cause they are stumped and are no closer to catching this guy or finding jennifer than they were 1 year and a half ago. The truth is they never had anything other than some hooker that kinda looked like JK and was actually named Jennifer as well. that's pretty much it. maybe they have some dna in the car, maybe they have an odd landline call, but the case is cold and getting colder and whatever they do have isn't enough. I bet there is no DNA in the car by the way, maybe a hair, i dunno. I don't think any fingerprints though.

I agree, ES, that takes a technically savvy predator. Yes, there are hardened criminals among the illegals, just take a look at that Newark bunch to see that, but for example the creep left a bottle with his fingerprints on them.

This guy left nothing, in my opinion, despite the one report from a Fox news station that given it's obscurity sounds more like police propaganda to scare someone than anything else.

rd

 

[Enrique Sparta]

I agree, ES, that takes a technically savvy predator. Yes, there are hardened criminals among the illegals, just take a look at that Newark bunch to see that, but for example the creep left a bottle with his fingerprints on them.

This guy left nothing, in my opinion, despite the one report from a Fox news station that given it's obscurity sounds more like police propaganda to scare someone than anything else.

rd

yeah kinda like when the cops made that announcement (in the JK case) "Now is the time to distance yourself from the perpetrator of this crime. You know who is responsible and right now you are not assumed to be involved blah blah blah" or whatever they said. It was all BS, they were just trying to get somebody to drop a dime. They dunno if it was 2 people involved or just 1. Not a bad idea to try it but nobody bit.

 

[leftcoast]

because regardless whatever he said or meant, expensive condo complexes don't put up the remodelling workers in their condos while the complex is being converted.

So, in the history of the US, a complex has never put up construction workers, in either trailers, older apartments that haven't been converted, or in quarters designed for workers. It's never happened. I happen to know that isn't true. Drew even stated this isn't true.

I don't even care to go wherever "not in the condos" might mean.

Don't know what you are talking about.

and I don't have any idea from your post how you are arriving at these workers being employees if the Mosaic. Both the contractor and employees likely required being bonded and uniformed (by a colored and labelled shirt).

Whether workers are technically employed by Mosaic, or by a sub, the workers are still being paid through funds by Mosaic, either directly or indirectly. IF half of them vanished the day after JK vanished, then, it is obvious they were somehow aware of what was happening, and most likely told of the situation, since most of them probably don't even speak English.

Yes, many of the employees had fake id's, no doubt, but the company has something on each one to show the police, however bogus it was.

First, how do we know they had fake id's. Some companies simply dont' want to know. Some companies pay in cash, and simply pay under the table. There is a chance there is a handwriting sample, and in some cases, there may be very little to trace these people.

I know for a fact, that some of these people use relatives id's, the id's of people who are dead, and some even use the same social security number as a number of people. So, tracking these people, especially since they scattered, could be very difficult. But, somebody had to hire them, pay them, and know where to reach them regarding their jobs.

I know how badly you want to make it possible that someone at the Mosaic did this, and maybe others too, I guess.

First of all, don't mis-represent what I have said. I never said that. WE all know you want it to be some guy, dressed as a law officer, wearing a baton, sunglasses, badge, helmet, taser, holster, and ring around his neck.

I've said from day one, that an intelligent investigator keeps all options open. This includes co-workers, former friends, people from grocery stores, dry cleaner, delivery people, cable installer, phone installer, people from the party the weekend before, residents of Mosaic, workers at Mosiac, friends of residents at Mosaic, security at Mosaic, etc. So, that has been continues to be, and will always be, my take on this, unless I see something to change my mind.

For the record, I've made no secret, that I believe LE focused on illegal aliens, when I believed the POI was more likely than not, a white person, of average height, simply wearing a hat or helmet.

But no, complexes don't hire remodelling workers, they don't put them up in condos, and they don't "lay off" workers they didn't hire.

Okay, I'll tell my buddy that what he saw on the job, was an optical illusion. For the record, Drew said the emloyees were living on the premises, not in the condo's.

Like I said to start with, the police had to have talked to the contractor and the workers there that day to be able to call it an investigation.

Right, and this contractor is going to tell OPD that he hired a bunch of illegal aliens, and then told them to scatter, since the heat was on.

Regardless, of what happened. It is obvious, that somehow, the word was given to the illegal workers, that Jk's abduction would lead to a greater police presence, and that illegals should scatter. I have a hard time believing that 1/2 of the employees had the same idea, on the same day. Very hard to believe.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Actually, the majority of apartment/condo complexes here do allow their workers (maintenance and management alike) to live onsite either for reduced rent or as in the manager's case...free. I have a good friend who has worked in a manager position for the best part of 15 years while running several nice complexes at a time. The maintenence crew is responsible for all repairs and updates on the complex including drywall, paint, the grounds, the pool, etc. and there are a lot of workers in each complex. Yes, some are illegals.

As far as hiring illegals...they don't just hire them to work the fields! I don't know where you are from, but here they are prevalent in the construction industry, restaurant industry, and many others who hire them under the table for cash.

We have a huge population of illegals and only recently have they passed a law where our LE can actually act in the same manner as ICE in starting deportation upon coming across them if they are involved in a crime in this state. Before, they had to simply book them with whatever name they could glean from them and let them go. We still do not have adequate laws set up as far as employers go yet, so people here aren't afraid to hire them openly.

No one here said anything about the workers...Jennifer's father did! And it also sounded as tho he has known about this for quite some time. It was certainly something I had not heard before from anywhere or anyone...including on this board and we have kept up with any/all news reports quite well, IMO. It would explain further why LE was looking at the immigrant angle.

 

[Myserty64]

There will be a few 'things' we don't know about this case.
I doubt there is anything major but there will be 'tidbits' here and there.

Investigators generally have pet theories on what happened on a particular case.
I would dearly like to know LE's range of scenarios for this one.

 

[rd_jfc]

Just to clarify, I am referring to a populated gated complex, such as the Mosaic (which I referred to as expensive condos), being remodelled or converted to condos. I live in a similar one in Jacksonville. I live in an apartment complex, but most of the complexes around me have been converted to condos.

I am also referring to construction crew, not maintenance staff.

A remodelling is a very big deal to the residents, as both they and the management consider their safety. Jennifer's statements and actions concerning the exposure to the contractors is typical, not isolated.

If even a smattering of any of the implied or stated things in the last few posts were true, the Mosaic management would be exposed to a wrongful death suit from Jennifer's family.

Conversion to condos is done like assembly line down here, it's pretty cut and dry. The current residents are kept informed as incidents when the contractors are present are inevitably blamed on the contractors. Safety is a huge issue for all. Contractors are identified and closely supervised.

Personally, they work hard and are good people, and instead we have a guy dressed up as a bike patrolman parking Jennifer's car, and contractors get the blame because "it had to be somebody who knew Jennifer, somebody who saw her at the Mosaic."

Instead of this gut reaction, based on nothing, why don't you figure out what a guy wearing a duty holster with taser and baton and sheriff's shoulder patch is doing parking Jennifer's car a mile down the road?

rd

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Uhm RD...because there is probably not a guy wearing a bike patrolman's uniform that we can see parking Jenn's car a mile down the road? It is your opinion, but it isn't fact..for starters. There is no "right or wrong" here, RD, only facts. We cannot create things to fit facts as we would like them to be...we can only deal with the facts as they are presented by LE, media, and the Kesse family at the moment. We can argue those facts and figure out possible scenarios yet we are still dealing with what they have said is fact.

Contractors DO hire illegals. Safety might be an issue, but obviously contractors are in it to make money and risk the safety of others by hiring people they do not know nor cannot trace. The illegal immigrants that Mosaic could have allowed to live on the property may not all work for them, but one person in such a family could.

LE obviously has made a specific inquiry to the illegal immigrant situation in Mosaic because Drew Kesse would NOT have mentioned it! I am not going to totally go against what Drew or his wife say because they are the ones dealing with LE and have spent much time at Mosaic. I can and do disagree with some things they haven't done...but they are still privy to info we do not have such as this. They are in the position to know what took place with the immigrants.

I believe Mosaic could be found responsible of Negligence if they would sue them! If they can track down more than one of the previous tenants who reported to the police keys were used to come into their apartments to rob them and Mosaic did nothing to change ALL the locks to insure the safety of their residents...they ARE negligent! If they said they had "Security" on premises before Jenn moved in and they did not. They ARE negligent. If they hired undocumented workers and gave them keys to said apartments for repairs...HELLO...negligent!!

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

Reading through the last day or so, it seems like it's down to rd's theory of a law enforcement person or imposter and left's theory of an illegal living at Mosaic and SS's theory of a kitchen worker (mainly chef).... My understanding pretty correct here? Tearing apart each other's theories is still not going to bring Jenn home. I think the fact that there are at least 3-4 ideas of who the perp is is good... it's getting all of us thinking. Let's all continue to work together and maybe list why you feel that your theory is correct.