Detail From Kolar's Book

[icedtea4me]

The knife LHP says she put in that linen cabinet (presumably that one) was, iirc, Burke's red pocket knife. That was found in the basement, I think. That's the one I thought you were talking about.

To me, there were two knives in play that night: the kitchen knife (knife #1) that was on the laundry area counter and Burke's pocket knife (knife #2) found in the basement.

 

[Logic101]

The knife LHP says she put in that linen cabinet (presumably that one) was, iirc, Burke's red pocket knife. That was found in the basement, I think. That's the one I thought you were talking about.

I agree with this presumption. I also think this is a good case for neither John nor Patsy was covering for Burke because the first thing they would have done would be to pickup his knife from vicinity of her body.

 

[icedtea4me]

Central to Hoffmann-Pugh's skepticism is a mystery surrounding a knife she once hid -- and that JonBenet's killer may have found.

"I think it's a legitimate area of concern that she has pointed out," said one detective who has worked on the case and knows Hoffmann-Pugh's story.

JonBenet's brother Burke, 9 at the time of the murder, was in the habit of wandering around the family's Boulder home whittling with his Swiss Army knife.

He'd trail shavings behind him so often that Hoffmann-Pugh warned she'd take away the knife if he didn't become more tidy.

He didn't. About a month before JonBenet's murder, Hoffmann-Pugh made good on her threat.

"I got tired of cleaning it up," she said. "He'd been asked to do it over paper or a bag or something. So, I just put the knife up one day, in a cupboard over the sink in that area outside of JonBenet's room" on the home's second level, an area that also had a microwave and laundry facilities.

Hoffmann-Pugh never saw the knife again.

But it resurfaced.

Included in the exhaustive inventory of items removed from the house following the 10 -day police search: "red pocket knife w/broken ornament" from the family's basement.

Specifically, Detective Kerry Yamaguchi discovered Burke's knife on a countertop near a sink just down a basement corridor from the small basement room where JonBenet's body was found.

Hoffmann's-Pugh's question: How did the knife get there?

"That showed up where JonBenet was," said Hoffmann-Pugh. "I would stake my life that an intruder wouldn't know to get that out of the cupboard. Someone took that knife out of the cupboard where I put it."

s-evidence-knives.htm

 

[GooseyPie]

I think JR staged the whole crime scene to make it appear that BR did it, from putting BR’s long johns on her, leaving his knife close to her and making the garrote using knots that BR had learned in Cub Scouts.

 

[UKGuy]

I think JR staged the whole crime scene to make it appear that BR did it, from putting BR’s long johns on her, leaving his knife close to her and making the garrote using knots that BR had learned in Cub Scouts.

GooseyPie,
More like John could not remove all the links back to Burke?

Why implicate your own son when you can fake a real intruder crime-scene that points away from the Ramsey family?

The case looks decidedly BDI, any other theory has a lot of explaining to do.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I think JR staged the whole crime scene to make it appear that BR did it, from putting BR’s long johns on her, leaving his knife close to her and making the garrote using knots that BR had learned in Cub Scouts.

GooseyPie,
I serious doubt JR was looking for diapers for JB and discovered BR knife in the cupboard.

 

[UKGuy]

The issue about Burke's knife should alert folks that there is more to the JonBenet case than a simple PDI, etc.

What parent is going to stage a crime-scene using their own son's knife, then leave it at the crime-scene.

What is the point in that, when you can make it look like an Intruder homicide by taking it with you?

The bit that is unresolved for me is: did Burke Ramsey attempt or actually stage his sister's death down in the basement, using an assortment of items, e.g. Dr. Seuss book, Samsonite Suitcase containing other clothing, i.e. Pink Barbie Nightgown, size-12 Bloomingdale underwear, etc.

Which the parents then attempted to dismantle and break any links back to Burke.

I used to think not, but his knife being present and John willing to say he put the suitcase in the basement, along with Patsy saying she opened the Partially Opened Gifts and put the size-12s into JonBenet's underwear drawer make me really think again.

James Kolar, Foreign Faction, Excerpt

I learned, over the course of my inquiry, that it was Burke who had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day, and I wondered why Patsy would claim responsibility for doing this. Patsy had also told investigators that the unwrapped box of Lego toys in the same room was being hidden for Burke's upcoming January birthday.

I didn?t give much thought about the presence of Christmas presents in the room at the time, but would later think these played a role in some of the events that took place on Christmas day.

If Kolar's claims that it was Burke who opened those gifts can be substantiated then his implicit BDI looks quite credible.

The bottom line is we have three different versions to account for the Partially Opened Gifts, and they cannot all be correct.

Kolar's BDI explains all this away along with the parents trying to distance Burke from the forensic evidence, at their own expense?

Like I say Burke actually staging JonBenet in the basement is a new unexplored angle.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The issue about Burke's knife should alert folks that there is more to the JonBenet case than a simple PDI, etc.

What parent is going to stage a crime-scene using their own son's knife, then leave it at the crime-scene.

What is the point in that, when you can make it look like an Intruder homicide by taking it with you?

The bit that is unresolved for me is: did Burke Ramsey attempt or actually stage his sister's death down in the basement, using an assortment of items, e.g. Dr. Seuss book, Samsonite Suitcase containing other clothing, i.e. Pink Barbie Nightgown, size-12 Bloomingdale underwear, etc.

Which the parents then attempted to dismantle and break any links back to Burke.

I used to think not, but his knife being present and John willing to say he put the suitcase in the basement, along with Patsy saying she opened the Partially Opened Gifts and put the size-12s into JonBenet's underwear drawer make me really think again.

James Kolar, Foreign Faction, Excerpt


If Kolar's claims that it was Burke who opened those gifts can be substantiated then his implicit BDI looks quite credible.

The bottom line is we have three different versions to account for the Partially Opened Gifts, and they cannot all be correct.

Kolar's BDI explains all this away along with the parents trying to distance Burke from the forensic evidence, at their own expense?

Like I say Burke actually staging JonBenet in the basement is a new unexplored angle.

UKGuy,
I most definitely agree. BR was never considered a suspect due to his age. Given a month from turning 10, things may have turned out much different. This point makes me believe JR made numerous phone calls to his attorneys before the police arrived 12/26/1996. Both parents were handed down indictments that points to a cover up of a third party.

According to some sources, Burke may have been given a scouting book for Christmas in 1996 which contained, amongst other things, a how-to-guide for making the knot found on the garrotte. This book was not part of the evidence list. We know that on December 28th Pam Paugh, Patsy’s sister, removed a trunk load of items from the Ramsey residence as per Patsy’s directions. The garrotte knot is known as a prusik hitch, a typical boy scouts or camping knot. BR admits owning a knife, admits it has his name on it, admits using it to tie knots and that his mother Patsy gave it to him. Burke used his knives for scouts and camping. Two principal tasks scouts must learn include whittling/kindling wood and the mastery of cords, rope and knots.

Burke may have used the knife as he habitually did. Whether it was Burke or an intruder, whoever whittled the garrotte, was the same individual who placed the birefringent wood fragment inside JonBenét’s genitalia. What we know for sure though, at least if Hoffman-Pugh’s testimony is reliable, is that Burke whittled often. This seems to skew the likelihood towards Burke using his own knife, and fashioning a garrotte, and tying the sort of knot scouts needed to know about, rather than a random intruder with a very spontaneous and haphazard approach to kidnapping and murder.

There was a kitchen knife found on the cabinet in the upstairs laundry area. Both JR and PR state that it doesn’t belong there. Which leads me to believe they don’t actually know why it is there. So possibly BR was going to use the (grapefruit) kitchen knife until he discovered his own knife in the diaper cabinet.

BR’s own words: I think that someone took her very quietly and tip-toed down the basement, then, then they took a knife out and [motions with arm]…like that.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I most definitely agree. BR was never considered a suspect due to his age. Given a month from turning 10, things may have turned out much different. This point makes me believe JR made numerous phone calls to his attorneys before the police arrived 12/26/1996. Both parents were handed down indictments that points to a cover up of a third party.

According to some sources, Burke may have been given a scouting book for Christmas in 1996 which contained, amongst other things, a how-to-guide for making the knot found on the garrotte. This book was not part of the evidence list. We know that on December 28th Pam Paugh, Patsy’s sister, removed a trunk load of items from the Ramsey residence as per Patsy’s directions. The garrotte knot is known as a prusik hitch, a typical boy scouts or camping knot. BR admits owning a knife, admits it has his name on it, admits using it to tie knots and that his mother Patsy gave it to him. Burke used his knives for scouts and camping. Two principal tasks scouts must learn include whittling/kindling wood and the mastery of cords, rope and knots.

Burke may have used the knife as he habitually did. Whether it was Burke or an intruder, whoever whittled the garrotte, was the same individual who placed the birefringent wood fragment inside JonBenét’s genitalia. What we know for sure though, at least if Hoffman-Pugh’s testimony is reliable, is that Burke whittled often. This seems to skew the likelihood towards Burke using his own knife, and fashioning a garrotte, and tying the sort of knot scouts needed to know about, rather than a random intruder with a very spontaneous and haphazard approach to kidnapping and murder.

There was a kitchen knife found on the cabinet in the upstairs laundry area. Both JR and PR state that it doesn’t belong there. Which leads me to believe they don’t actually know why it is there. So possibly BR was going to use the (grapefruit) kitchen knife until he discovered his own knife in the diaper cabinet.

BR’s own words: I think that someone took her very quietly and tip-toed down the basement, then, then they took a knife out and [motions with arm]…like that.

Rain on my Parade,
Yes the knife issue along with Burke's knowledge of boy scouts or camping knots allows for him to consider faking a crime-scene.

I've speculated in the past that JonBenet may have been assaulted internally as part of a postmortem ritual, i.e. tying in Burke's habit of whittling and intent?

Also when Burke asked his parents during the 911 call What did you find, it could be he had his knife in mind, as he knew it was not in his pocket?


.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Yes the knife issue along with Burke's knowledge of boy scouts or camping knots allows for him to consider faking a crime-scene.

I've speculated in the past that JonBenet may have been assaulted internally as part of a postmortem ritual, i.e. tying in Burke's habit of whittling and intent?

Also when Burke asked his parents during the 911 call What did you find, it could be he had his knife in mind, as he knew it was not in his pocket?


.

UKGuy,
Yes, it adds up against Burke when we consider the knife and how it ties into the crime. Since Burke knew (within days) about the knife, hitting on the head, etc. used during the crime scene makes one wonder for sure. IMO his statement “What DID you find”, speaks simply of guilt.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Yes, it adds up against Burke when we consider the knife and how it ties into the crime. Since Burke knew (within days) about the knife, hitting on the head, etc. used during the crime scene makes one wonder for sure. IMO his statement “What DID you find”, speaks simply of guilt.

Rain on my Parade,
He could be totally innocent. Yet he is not asking "Where is JonBenet", as if her abduction might be a normal event?

If he is not involved in assaulting JonBenet, then now grown up, he must know who killed JonBenet since he was present?

He will be able to work out from what his father is asking him to say or not, precisely who killed JonBenet.

His mother is the prime candidate, definitely not something I would want to live with.

So we know Burke knows who killed JonBenet, yet he is saying nothing and refusing to attend cold case interviews.

What does that tell you?

.

 

[proust20]

The overall staging seems too elaborate for this 9 yr old to dream up by himself alone. I doubt that BR would have wiped down JB, as that is a tender, even respectful, gesture. Changing her nightclothes and undies doesn't seem like something a kid who just killed his sister with his parents upstairs would have the presence of mind to carry through. After all, from his Dr Phil interview, it is apparent that he's not the brightest bulb.

 

[UKGuy]

The overall staging seems too elaborate for this 9 yr old to dream up by himself alone. I doubt that BR would have wiped down JB, as that is a tender, even respectful, gesture. Changing her nightclothes and undies doesn't seem like something a kid who just killed his sister with his parents upstairs would have the presence of mind to carry through. After all, from his Dr Phil interview, it is apparent that he's not the brightest bulb.

proust20,

The overall staging seems too elaborate for this 9 yr old to dream up by himself alone.

I agree, seems like the parents modified whatever had went before?

I doubt that BR would have wiped down JB,

Some members think that it was John who wiped her down as fibers from his Israeli manufactured shirt were allegedly found on JonBenet's thighs.

Changing her nightclothes and undies doesn't seem like something a kid who just killed his sister with his parents upstairs would have the presence of mind to carry through.

Roughly the thinking is JonBenet was naked from the waist down, so she needed to be dressed somehow, and the Bloomingdale's Size-12 Wednesday Day Of The Week seemed a nice match for her then bloodstained size-6 Wednesday Day Of The Week underwear. The longjohns did belong to Burke, so nothing difficult here.

Then again you might be correct and it was John who redressed Jonbenet in the size-12's along with wiping her down.

Its just very odd that the parents decide to stage JonBenet's death and summarily inject Burke into the wine-cellar crime-scene by dressing JonBenet in a pair of his longjohns, particularly when JonBenet has a drawer full of underwear in her bedroom?

.

 

[proust20]

There is no reason to assume that the staging was done by one person, of course. But also, the staging did not have to occur as a sustained and continuous action. There could have been starts and stops with various adaptations which took hours. This could possibly account for so very many confusing details. Perhaps, there was no organizing game plan from the outset.

 

[UKGuy]

There is no reason to assume that the staging was done by one person, of course. But also, the staging did not have to occur as a sustained and continuous action. There could have been starts and stops with various adaptations which took hours. This could possibly account for so very many confusing details. Perhaps, there was no organizing game plan from the outset.

proust20,
This has been part of my theory for many years now. I reckon more than one person contributed to the staging which was ad-hoc, including elements intended to separate forensic evidence from its original location, e.g. Pink Barbie Nightgown, the album containing cutsie photographs of JonBenet, and the Dr. Seuss book?

The staging possibly spanned three different locations in the Ramsey house, possibly one more if you think John moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar with the intention of finding her later, of course he did not know Fleet White had already looked into the wine-cellar and seen nothing suspicious, detail released in distinction to that regarding the Dec 23rd 911 call?

The

organizing game plan from the outset.

eventually became the Kidnapping Scenario, e.g. it explains why JonBenet is in the basement and not in her bed.

Personally I think the red flag in the staging are the size-12 Bloomingdales!

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

proust20,
This has been part of my theory for many years now. I reckon more than one person contributed to the staging which was ad-hoc, including elements intended to separate forensic evidence from its original location, e.g. Pink Barbie Nightgown, the album containing cutsie photographs of JonBenet, and the Dr. Seuss book?

The staging possibly spanned three different locations in the Ramsey house, possibly one more if you think John moved JonBenet into the wine-cellar with the intention of finding her later, of course he did not know Fleet White had already looked into the wine-cellar and seen nothing suspicious, detail released in distinction to that regarding the Dec 23rd 911 call?

The eventually became the Kidnapping Scenario, e.g. it explains why JonBenet is in the basement and not in her bed.

Personally I think the red flag in the staging are the size-12 Bloomingdales!

.

UKGuy,
I Found this: go back to
Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?
page 120 post #2386.
Start here and read page 120.
You came to the same conclusion.
You are consistent.

 

[proust20]

But wouldn't JB being found naked from the waist down have been the most starkly gruesome manner in which to arrange the staging? Besides the sheer horror of the image, it'd only shore up the idea that she had been assaulted by a sex maniac. It's in fact quite the opposite sort of thing, with panties, long johns and a blanket, as well as being cleansed somewhat. Seems like the stager(s) had a certain recoil, perhaps sorrow, when doing the grim task, and tried for a more demure effect.

 

[UKGuy]

But wouldn't JB being found naked from the waist down have been the most starkly gruesome manner in which to arrange the staging? Besides the sheer horror of the image, it'd only shore up the idea that she had been assaulted by a sex maniac. It's in fact quite the opposite sort of thing, with panties, long johns and a blanket, as well as being cleansed somewhat. Seems like the stager(s) had a certain recoil, perhaps sorrow, when doing the grim task, and tried for a more demure effect.

proust20,
Sure but remember what was presented to the investigators was a kidnapping not a sexual assault, so there has to be a degree of consistency with what JonBenet is wearing and the Ramsey version of events.

So the size-12's are there to normalize JonBenet beneath the waist, the longjohns and blanket to hide any signs of injury, hence the cleaning.

IMO it has nothing to do with recoil, sorrow or an attempt at a demure effect. More an attempt at staging away a sexual and physical assault so to make the straight to bed scenario more believable, as this buys the Ramsey's valuable time.

Time in which to consider fleeing interstate by private plane!

.

 

[icedtea4me]

I think JR staged the whole crime scene to make it appear that BR did it, from putting BR’s long johns on her, leaving his knife close to her and making the garrote using knots that BR had learned in Cub Scouts.

Why would John care whether or not the white long johns coordinated with the white Gap top?

 

[Nerissa]

I've always believed Burke & JonBenet were down there playing....that BD was abusive in many ways & the family knew about it

Those gifts being peeked at: that's what a kid does..

Redressing JBR in those too-big panties: that's what a kid does that doesn't know better & is covering his tracks....... he knew they were there because he'd ripped back those present's wrapping to peek....

'What did you find?'.....

Not just a dead sister - but opened presents, & his knife....

JMO