FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #7

[SeriouslySearching]

Reading through the last day or so, it seems like it's down to rd's theory of a law enforcement person or imposter and left's theory of an illegal living at Mosaic and SS's theory of a kitchen worker (mainly chef).... My understanding pretty correct here? Tearing apart each other's theories is still not going to bring Jenn home. I think the fact that there are at least 3-4 ideas of who the perp is is good... it's getting all of us thinking. Let's all continue to work together and maybe list why you feel that your theory is correct.

UCFA~ I am not trying to tear down anyone else here due to my theory. I am trying to stay with the facts as we know them. The "new" information Drew put out there about the illegal immigrants "scattering" the next day does put an obvious new slant on the case, IMO.

 

[rd_jfc]

Yes, I agree with that summary. One difference though is that I'm saying that it couldn't possibly be called an investigation if the police were unable to determine and find the men who were at the Mosaic that day, including staff, contractors, and residents, which based on employment and other records would be men who were there in preceding days.

So if it wasn't done then (and I have no idea why people think it wasn't done, what else would the police do to investigate?), it certainly won't be done now a year and a half later.

So lots of fingerpointing, at police, the remodelling contractor and construction crew, the Mosaic management and staff, nearby kitchen crews, and a refusal to believe the man parking Jennifer's car is equipped as a sheriff's deputy, because people believed the police that the pictures were "grainy" and "blurry" and complained about the pictures for a year and a half without trying very hard to see anything.

I can hear it now. CSI comes on and you see someone enlarging a picture and someone would say "you can't do that, you have to see everything with the naked eye".

Amazing.

rd

 

[SeriouslySearching]

OK Let's go ahead and do just as UCFA asked. I will put together all the reasons I have to suspect it is a kitchen worker from A to Z. You guys do the same for your theories and see what we come up with. We can weigh it out and see what matches more closely to the facts as we know them and which do not. It may not be a bad idea. It will take some time, but might be worth it. Go back into the first threads and put together your first impressions along with what you have come up with later. See if those gel. Sometimes our first impressions are even more accurate than what we develop later on.

 

[leftcoast]

FTR: I don't have one theory, related to this case.

I learned a long time ago, that, whenever we limit ourselves to one theory, we only look for evidence that backs up that theory, and we tend to overlook evidence, which shoots down our theory. It is just human nature.

I simply look at the facts, as we know them.

As far as I'm concerned, Drew's comments from Thursday night, only add to my suspicions, and to many other's, that the POI is somehow, someway, tied to Mosaic.

It doesn't necessarily mean that is the only option, just the most obvious.

Any and all scenario's are possible.

But, I sure do find it odd that the POI headed back to Mosaic, and knew which direction was Jk's condo, and how to get there unnoticed. Make me wonder, had he done this before? Was he stalking JK, and using this route, and shortcut, to enter Mosiac, to either stalk women, or burglarize units.

While I haven't ruled it out, I think the possibility that JK was a random target, very unlikely. In other words, I don't think that Tuesday was the first time the POI ever saw JK.

left

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Haven't we done this before? <sigh>

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

I agree.... it's been a year and a half of <Sighs>.... but the one thing rd is about the illegals... There were a lot of subcontractors that utilize a lot of illegals- i.e. carpet installers, painters, granite installers, tile installers, etc.... there is a very likely possibility that these individuals were paid "under the table".... there is a possibility that by the time that LE went from "Jennifer just probably needed to get away" to taking it seriously that she indeed was missing and met some form of foul play- that was 48 hours. The first 48 hours I have a feeling LE made quite a few slips. They didn't use a tracking dog until they found Jennifer's car. I don't know necessarily if the POI was the lone abductor, but it's possible. I also agree it's possible it was someone who worked at Mosaic in some capacity... think about the one thing that everyone said that Jennifer said--- the workers made her feel uneasy. A woman's intuition means a lot and if her gut told her and others that the workers made her uneasy then that would be a strong liklihood. Think about it- she had a punch list of things that needed fixing in her condo.

 

[Enrique Sparta]

there is a possibility that by the time that LE went from "Jennifer just probably needed to get away" to taking it seriously that she indeed was missing and met some form of foul play- that was 48 hours. The first 48 hours I have a feeling LE made quite a few slips. They didn't use a tracking dog until they found Jennifer's car.

Huh? What? Wrong. Law enforcement made some mistakes but not getting involved quick enough is not one of them. They actually were involved very soon after her family announced her missing. Here is proof your 48 hours comment is dead wrong....

ORLANDO POLICE DEPARTMENT
PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE
100 S. Hughey Avenue, Orlando Florida 32801
Sergeant Barbara J. Jones
Office (407)-246-2403 FAX NO. (407)-246-2732
E Mail Address: Barb.Jones@cityororlando.net
MEDIA RELEASE
Date: 01-25-06
Time: 1200
Police Incident Case # 2006-32039 (Missing Adult)
SUMMARY
NAME: Jennifer Kesse
DOB: 05/20/1981
RACE: White
SEX: Female
HEIGHT: 5-07
WEIGHT: 130
HAIR: Brown
EYES: Green
LKA: 3735 Conroy Rd.
CASE #2006-32039
VEHICLE INFORMATION: 2004 black Chevrolet Malibu
4-door
Florida Tag: H90KYC
CASE DETAILS:
THE ABOVE LISTED PERSON WAS LAST HEARD FROM ON
01/23/2006 AT APPROXIMATELY 2200 HOURS. SHE DID NOT SHOW UP FOR WORK ON 01/24/2006. HER VEHICLE IS ALSO MISSING. THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR IS VERY UNCHARACTERISTIC. SHE HAS BEEN ENTERED INTO TELETYPE AS MISSING-ENDANGERED.



And if the cops were not taking JK's disappearance seriously you know Mr and Mrs Kesse would've let the city of Orlando and anybody else listening know about it. They've praised law enforcement over and over again. Loved ones of the victims aren't exactly afraid to voice their displeasure of the police if they feel it is warranted and the police aren't doing enough to help find their loved ones and/or those responsible. Nothing like that at all from the Kesse's. That says something.

It's different now anyways, it's no longer mandatory to wait 48 hours or 24 hours (or whatever it used to be) for law enforcement to investigate a missing adult. Obviously it's a case by case basis. You understand the cops just can't start a full investigation into foul play every time somebody calls in a missing adult right? You do realize there would be zero cops left to investigate real crimes, that they'd be chasing down people who went to the beach, forgot their cell phones, left town (adults have every right to not contact people), don't wanna be contacted, and a million other situations where somebody is just worried about a family member. If police did that, there would be chaos and nothing would ever get done. The cops wouldn't be able to investigate the Jennifer Kesse's for months cause they're tracking down somebody who had to work late and their spouse got scared they were abducted or something ludicrous like that. The vast majority of "missing" people are not involuntarily missing. And in situations with adults, it's more difficult. That said, Orlando PD should be praised for getting involved early in the JK case. They obviously, correctly, understood this was not a voluntary absence after talking to her family, work, and friends.

They didn't use a tracking dog until they found Jennifer's car

First off, how do you know? Were you with the first group of investigators that went to her apartment? And how would they know where to start the dog search if they have no crime scene? They had no clue where the car was. There was no evidence of a crime scene at her apartment, nothing was out of the ordinary. They also found out that she was planning to mail her brother's friend's cell phone. Where would a dog search lead from her apartment? Her parking spot? They may have done so anyway.


The cops should not be absolved from blame. They certainly should've released the video when they released the "POI" photos. Their trap was never gonna work. Even a complete idiot wouldn't have fell for that one. They also likely have the suspect's height wrong. Probably some other errors too but not getting involved early enough isn't one of them.

 

[Enrique Sparta]

FTR: I don't have one theory, related to this case.

I learned a long time ago, that, whenever we limit ourselves to one theory, we only look for evidence that backs up that theory, and we tend to overlook evidence, which shoots down our theory. It is just human nature.

I simply look at the facts, as we know them.

As far as I'm concerned, Drew's comments from Thursday night, only add to my suspicions, and to many other's, that the POI is somehow, someway, tied to Mosaic.

It doesn't necessarily mean that is the only option, just the most obvious.

Any and all scenario's are possible.

But, I sure do find it odd that the POI headed back to Mosaic, and knew which direction was Jk's condo, and how to get there unnoticed. Make me wonder, had he done this before? Was he stalking JK, and using this route, and shortcut, to enter Mosiac, to either stalk women, or burglarize units.

While I haven't ruled it out, I think the possibility that JK was a random target, very unlikely. In other words, I don't think that Tuesday was the first time the POI ever saw JK.

left

Maybe this has been proven already (I can't recall) but do we know for sure that the dog picked up the scent of the suspect and not of Jennifer? It was her car, she would've been the dominant scent. How do they know whose scent the dog picked up? If the bloodhound picked up her scent, he would also walk towards the Mosaic and to the stairs of her apartment. Then again the dog did walk past the main entrance and to the side fence or whatever where supposedly the suspect jumped over to avoid being detected. Interesting and definitely a possibility. Lemme ask you guys, is that the only reason you are confident the dog picked up the suspect's scent (and not JK's)? And is that the reason why you think the suspect went back to Mosaic? Or are there other reasons?

In these types of abductions, the very high majority (at least 75%) of the time the victim knew their kidnapper/abductor. So is that true for poor Jennifer? Hard to say. I wonder what her folks think on this. Obviously the cops have looked into her background and haven't found anything. However there may have been an acquaintance of JK's that she didn't bother ever mentioning, maybe somebody living nearby, maybe a workman that she would recognize. Who could it be? The first people the cops looked at were the boyfriend and the brother's friends and they've all been cleared. I'll go with the police on this one as it would take one hell of a liar/criminal/evil mastermind to have the cops dismiss you so readily. I think if it was somebody that close to her (boyfriend) or that close to the crime (brother's friends partying in her place day before she disappeared) they'd have their suspect by now. Plus the family would've recognized the person driving her car and walking by.

Plus there is no crime scene, no trace of JK. The kidnapper was clever enough to shut her cell phone off right away. No doubt in my mind. The cops have no specific area out of the way to search. They've basically just done the basic around the woods in her area, around the HOTG where the car was. In the Kelsey Smith from Kansas case, luckily the idiot murderer left her cell phone on and they tracked the general location of her phone (and her) to some area in Missouri, some wooded area, and they started their search there. Didn't take long to find her.

I dunno if the suspect left DNA in the car. I guarantee they left no fingerprints, it's possible they found hair. Nobody can see all the hairs they shed and it only takes one. If so, this person has not been arrested as they take your DNA at the police station don't they? It's also possible the suspect didn't leave ANY DNA. There's no proof (publically) that they found any. I think if there was something serious, such as blood, found in JK's car, it would be known by all now.

No DNA, no crime scene. That's tough. If this is one of those rarer situations where the victim didn't know their kidnapper, then the only way this case gets solved is if somebody drops a dime on the suspect OR if they do have DNA and that person gets arrested at some time. And you can't blame the cops for not solving this one if JK was taken by a stranger. How? How are they gonna find ONE person when they don't even know what they look like? There's only two ways, 1.have somebody rat them out, 2.the suspect does this again and screws up and gets caught or seen or arrested.

 

[leftcoast]

Acutally, it varies from state to state.

Where I live, only convicted felons, and those convicted of sexual crimes are required to give DNA samples for the database. Not everyone arrested gives a DNA sample. Prints yes, DNA no. I don't know the laws in Florida.

We already know the DNA database is behind a few years, due to all of the new samples it has collected.

Regarding the dogs, here we go again.

It is my understanding, that dogs sniff the driver's seat, and smell the scent of the "last" person to sit in the driver's seat.

It would be extremely simple to verify if this dog worked correctly.

If the dog, took the same route, around the poolfence, and past the poolgate, then we can be fairly certain the dog is following the scent, or path, or the POI.

Jk's parents, have stated, countless times, that JK has never been to HOTG, she didn't even go in that direction to work.

Dogs don't smell the scent out of the air, and then take a direct path to a person's house. They smell a trail, of dead skin, that falls off, while we are walking, or running.

For example, have you ever seen "cool hand luke"? In it, the dogs are trying to track down Paul Newman, who continues to break out of jail, and Newman, uses a few tricks to throw off the dogs, like running in circles,using pepper, and entering water, to erase the scent.

Yes, the dog trail is the main argument for why I believe it is possible the POI returned to Mosaic.

In addition, if that was Jk's scent, somehow, I just dont' see her jumping a fence, to her complex, when she had her own car.

I agree, that if it was somebody the Kesse's knew, they would probably recognize the photo of the POI. Even if the height is off, we all have some unique qualities, such as our gait, arm size, clothing styles, etc.

It is possible, that this is a stranger abduction. But, by stranger, we mean, someone that nobody other than JK notices. For example, someone from the gym, someone from Starbucks, or the boyfriend of a friend from work, etc.

Nobody ever said this case was easy, but, I feel that LE must realize, the more information they share with the public, the better chance of solving the case.

FTR: Joyce Kesse said there was no sign of a struggle in Jk's car.

Even if LE found a stray hair, there is no way of knowing if the hair, is from the POI, or a valet, or a friend, or RA, Logan, or simply transferrence. Unless, of course, stray hairs were found on the driver's headrest, now, that would be excellent.

left

 

[docwho3]

In repsonse to someone who asked we all state our thoughts on the case:

My kneejerk response to the few facts made public in this case is that foul play took place. There were lots of little things that make me tempted to think that way, The car being spoken of as if it were a crime scene being just one, and the person parking the car being another point (although moreso at a later time). . . . . . . .

But then I stop and realize that just because someone of unknown gender parked the car does not mean she did not just run away and have a friend, acquaintance or total stranger park the car for her. In fact, due to the poor video quality, I can't even rule out that it was JK herself that parked the car. (I know what others have claimed about the video but I actually know a little about manipulating the raw file data and reading the bytes and even then I cannot be sure what the pics show in this case.)

When I stacked up what I do know, until a month or so back it was not enough to tip the balance either way between adult runaway and foul play and even now it is tipped precious little but it is tipped for the moment.

I was watching one of those "wildest police chase" type video TV shows on dish network and I saw a guy who looked very much like the person in the JK POI video. (I made mention of having seen this in a post not long after I viewed it.)He had the same basic build, same general hair style and wore white on either the top or bottm half (I think the shirt was white but don't remember now for sure.) The person had stolen a car and then stopped during the chase to get out and taunt the cops. For all I know there may be a delay of years between when the chase video was shot and when it actually was used on a TV show but it did convince me that there was possibly a perp out there of the same basic race and nationality as in the chase video who had parked JK's car. And the fact that the chase video was of a car thief made me take a closer look at the foul play theory in the JK case. It has been, for me, that smallest of tipping points between foul play and adult runaway but for now I am slightly leaning towards foul play.

I could still go with either theory if a little more evidence surfaces. There are still many things about the case that would also fit an adult runaway situation.

 

[Enrique Sparta]

It is possible, that this is a stranger abduction. But, by stranger, we mean, someone that nobody other than JK notices. For example, someone from the gym, someone from Starbucks, or the boyfriend of a friend from work, etc.

I don't consider that a stranger abduction. Stranger, maybe, to the family, but not to the victim. You don't think it's at all possible this could be a random person who didn't know Jennifer? I agree it's more likely she knew or at least recognized the guy but it's definitely possible she had no idea who it was. Especially since we don't know where the attack even took place.

Nobody ever said this case was easy, but, I feel that LE must realize, the more information they share with the public, the better chance of solving the case.

I don't think they have anything though.

 

[leftcoast]

I don't consider that a stranger abduction. Stranger, maybe, to the family, but not to the victim. You don't think it's at all possible this could be a random person who didn't know Jennifer? I agree it's more likely she knew or at least recognized the guy but it's definitely possible she had no idea who it was. Especially since we don't know where the attack even took place.

True, technically, that isn't a stranger abduction.

Yes, I do think it is possible that JK was abducted by a stranger, even one who was disguised. That wouldn't surprise me at all. IT would actually make sense. At the same time, why didn't anyone at Mosaic see anything, or why didn't JK fight, and why didn't JK use her phone.

Part of me, still wonders, if the break-ins at Mosaic, were really burglaries, or sexual attacks in which the victim wasn't home. I'd like to know, if all of the burglaries happened to women, or both men and women. Sometimes, weirdo's will break in women's apartments, for other reasons than to steal.

Technically, that would qualify as a stranger abduction.

Obviously, part of me is not convinced JK made it out of her condo. Then again, maybe LE has something concrete, which proves JK made it out of her condo. I sure would like to know if one set of her work clothes are missing, along with work shoes. Then, I would be more willing to give in that JK probably made it out of her condo.

I don't think they have anything though.

Agree. I don't buy the DNA story, or the print story. The case just seems so clean, and we're suppose to believe the POI left behind a calling card?

I wish it was true, but, I think LE would have solved it by now, if it was. I think forensics might be able to convict an offender, but, I don't believe forensics will lead LE to the offender. If that makes sense.

Think about it. IF LE had such a "lead", wouldn't they be hitting the streets, asking for DNA, or prints, from everyone who worked, lived, or visited Mosaic. Not to mention co-workers, the boys from the weekend, etc. Yet, no word of such happening. If LE had these clues, why release the video of the POI, when you have an ace in the hole?

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

Let's say they have fingerprints... think about it- to have a match, you need to have the fingerprints of that person in the system. The system is behind. Also, the fact that illegals were cut from the staff the very next day- they probably didnt get far enough to get fingerprints and dna samples from everyone working there. In regards to the police- yes they made the right motions, but I can almost guarantee you that until they found her car, they were not investigating piece by piece by piece... i.e. condo, surrounding condos, etc. Jenn was missing and so was her car... yes, a missing person, but my gut tells me they didnt take it as seriously (more like a runaway bride scenario) until they found her car.

 

[UK Sleuth]

According to the youtube items on Jennifer it states they have fingerprints and 'possible' DNA whatever that means.

I suspect this poi is not in the database because they are either:

1) Illegal
2) Not been caught before
3) Both.

I am much more sceptical now that this case will ever be solved if it is true what has been said about the illegals working at Mosaic.

My opinion has always been someone to do with mosaic and still is but it may just be that person is a million miles away now and anyone who could iID them is also a million miles away.

Needle in a haystack is an understatement in myhumble opinion.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I just pray every night they get a break in this case. I don't care HOW or WHY...anything to point them to what happened.

I am at the point where it will take nothing short of a miracle...or maybe a search of the ponds to find evidence...to get somewhere in this case. People keep saying how "smart" the perp must be to shut off the phone...IMO it is probably in the nearest water.

 

[Myserty64]

I agree SS.

The phone may be in water or it might be in a landfill.
The suspect had two days start and so did the dumpsters.

I don't know where the break is going to come from in this case and more especially if there is no forensic evidence.

This case has stood still for 18 months so what is going to stop it standing still for another 18 months?

I have posted before that there 6000 unsolved homicides it the USA each year.
Note that number.........6000.

The big break might come in thise case by establishing this:

Was the perpetrator known to Jennifer or was the perpetrator a stranger?

If it can be established the perpetrator was known to Jennifer we will be well on the way to solving this case.

 

[drumstick]

Try this ....

What if Kelsey Smith's body was never discovered?
If the only video was filmed in the dark and was poor quality?

Her car was moved to another area.

Would her case be the same as Jennifer's?

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

also look at kelsey smith and the fact that her dad was retired le... that could have had something to do with it. If that picture of the suspect was grainy and dark like jenn's showing not a whole heck of a lot, i do think that the situation could be the same. I just wonder when that last ping was... and where

 

[SeriouslySearching]

also look at kelsey smith and the fact that her dad was retired le... that could have had something to do with it. If that picture of the suspect was grainy and dark like jenn's showing not a whole heck of a lot, i do think that the situation could be the same. I just wonder when that last ping was... and where

And WHY aren't they releasing it?!

 

[Enrique Sparta]

Try this ....

What if Kelsey Smith's body was never discovered?
If the only video was filmed in the dark and was poor quality?

Her car was moved to another area.

Would her case be the same as Jennifer's?

I'm not sure what the point of this post is. There are tons of unsolved missing person cases, JK is just the latest in a long line. As for Kelsey Smith, okay suppose the photo quality of the suspect was as poor as Kesse's and nobody got a good look at him. He still had a chance to be caught. They would've found her body cause of the cell phone triangulation. He raped her and so his DNA undoubtedly was all over the crime scene, maybe fingerprints too. I believe he was arrested in the past. So if his DNA was on file, then yes he would have been caught. Even if the body was never found, because the camera quality was pretty decent, many people called in to identify him. That's how they found him so quick. They found him before they found the body if I recall correctly.