Possible Victim: Andre Jamal Isaac, 25, aka Sugar Bear, missing Nov 2002, found Queens Dec 2002 & Moriches Jan 2003

[DetectiveB]

Good find on Sugar Bear's height and article. I also read somewhat that KW was approx 6'2" which helps on establishing the other's approx height. As far as photo and the year taken, that I do not know. But knowing that Jessica had "remy's angel" tattoo, she had to have been in NY more than a few weeks, no? And if that is Jessica in the photo that photo had to be taken in the fall or winter. Jessica was last seen in July.

 

[DetectiveB]

Latest article mentions that Sugar Bear was 6 feet 3, so it is not likely that it is him/her in this photo. He would be definitely the tallest.

It would be good to find out when or in which year photo was actually taken. If Jessica was really only few weeks in New York, than photo is definitely from 2003, sometime prior to July when she was found.

Good find on Sugar Bear's height.

The only thing issue I have is sometimes the media doesn't always get the facts correct, but they could be right and he could have been 6.2", I believe I read that KW was around 6'2.
If Jessica indeed is included in this photo (I can't remember off hand how tall she was) in photos she is wearing what looks to be 3-4" heels but it's hard to say how tall she "appears" in photo, but she looks to be around 5.5" with heels? And that would line up with the "sugar bear" look-a-like...in which he/she is not near 6', so you may be right. The other thing is- is that it looks like this photo was taken in winter or fall. If she was last seen in NY July of 2003, so she had to have been in NY more than a few weeks. In addition, she had the tattoo "remy's angel" so she had to have spent much more time there being with KW and he's even stated that she was his "girlfriend." It was stated by him that she was heading to Queens? Sorry going off the top of my head, could be wrong.

I have no idea when this photo was taken or how to find out.

 

[DetectiveB]

Found this pdf link...it mentions that JT was 5.3" so in photo that would make her around 5.6ish...(if that is her?)

Good info for anyone interested, not sure if this was posted before...http://www.rippercast.com/mp3/LISK09042016.pdf

 

[OnTheCase27]

I found the pic on Khalil White's Myspace...however it has been posted here in WS before, so the pic has been circulated. I also think it does look like Jessica on his left and I wonder if any of the other girls are connected to those who are missing. One of the things that stuck me was this quote also found on his page..."the hommie twist ,my girl shorty 240 angie and the rest of the union square crew.shorty you know I had to post this on my page.lol"...If you read in to it...saying that he HAD to post it, and then put LOL. ? Who could be shorty? and perhaps Jessica went by the name Angie?

I think you be right 240 is an area code for Montgomery county MD which is literally on the border of DC where we know Jessica had worked.

 

[Manwel]

ANDRE JAMAL ISAAC aka Sugar Bear


A 25 year old drag queen from Brooklyn is murdered and dismembered, body parts dumped in Queens and Long Island.


Tuesday, December 17, 2002
HEADLESS TORSO FOUND IN WEEDED ARVERNE LOT

Police from the 100 Precinct, as well as officers from the Emergency Service Unit (ESU) responded to an anonymous tip that there was a body in a plastic bag on Beach 63 Street between Larkin Avenue and the boardwalk. In the bag, police say they found a "partial human torso" without head or extremities. On Wednesday, Ellen Borakove, a spokesperson for the Medical Examiner, told The Wave that it was a male torso, but that further tests would be necessary to ascertain his age, how long he had been dead and the cause of death.

Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/40°35'25.8"N+73°47'32.6"W/@40.5894897,-73.7923671,617m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
There are several settlements in the area today, but in 2002 it was an undeveloped lot.



January 25, 2003
HEAD FOUND ON LONG ISLAND ICE POND

A Long Island couple enjoying an afternoon skating on a frozen pond yesterday happened upon a gruesome sight – a detached human head sticking out of the ice, police said.

The head of a white adult male was spotted around 12 p.m. yesterday on one of the Twin Ponds near the corner of Montauk Highway and Barnes Road in the town of Moriches, cops said.

A Suffolk County Police Department spokesman said the head was being examined for identification and to determine cause of death.

Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/40°49'04.6"N+72°50'20.1"W/@40.8179389,-72.8389194,615m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0


White... The head belongs to a black man. Mistakes with the race, always happen. The victim is ANDRE JAMAL ISAAC aka Sugar Bear. He is a black drag queen from Brooklyn disappeared shortly before Thanksgiving 2002, (Nov 28). He is a big guy. Gun is used this time.



January 27, 2003
BULLET HOLE IN SEVERED HEAD

A human head found on the ice of a Long Island skating pond belonged to a man who had been shot, Suffolk County police said yesterday.

The head was spotted protruding through the ice by two skaters on the shoreline of a pond in Moriches on Saturday. It was taken by police to the Suffolk County Medical Examiner’s Office for inspection.

Police Officer Bob McLaren said neither the race nor the identity of the man have been determined, and that police have not yet found the rest of the body.

McLaren said medical examiners determined that the head had a gunshot wound.





March 6, 2003
A partial human torso that was found in a plastic bag on Beach 63 Street between Larken Street and the boardwalk on Dec. 17, 2002 about 11:30 a.m. has been determined by medical examiners to belong to a male, said police. The investigation has been reclassified as a homicide, and was ongoing, police said. The victim remains unidentified.



November 24, 2007
Police are searching for the killer of “Sugar Bear,” a professional drag queen from Brooklyn – whose head was found frozen in the ice of a Long Island pond by skaters in 2003.

Police say that the killer dumped the head, with a single bullet wound to the head, in the frozen pond, where it was found on January 25, 2003.

The killer had dumped the head, with a single bullet wound in the temple, in the pond in Moriches, where it was found on Jan. 25, 2003, said Detective Lt. Jack Fitzpatrick, commander of the Suffolk County Police Homicide Squad.

Arms and legs belonging to the same victim were later found in a plastic bag miles away in Suffolk County.

Possible Location:
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏
Possible date of discovery: Fall 2007

The body parts are disposed with a ride on Sunrise Highway this time, not LI Expressway.


It took Suffolk detectives almost a year and a half to identify the victim as Andre Jamal Isaac, 25, of East New York, the grandson of a Vietnam POW.

DNA tests done in Suffolk linked the body parts to a torso found clad in a skirt, black body suit and tank top in Arverne on December 17, 2002.

(1) In January of 2004, police officials came up with an artist's rendition of the dead man.

(2) Detectives showed photos of his head to transvestites in Manhattan.

It is probably 1, not 2

In May 2004, one drag queen told a detective, “Hey, that looks like Sugar Bear.” Another knew Isaac’s real name, and detectives found his mother, Kim Long Jordan, 50, on Long Island.

Jordan gave investigators a key piece of information: One of her son’s pals had seen Isaac just before Thanksgiving getting into a car with a “secret friend.” He was never seen again.

“He went out without a coat and said he would be right back. He left his pocketbook,” she said. Fitzpatrick said the car was a red, BMW-type coupe with “nice rims” driven by a Hispanic man.


It is December 2002. The torso and left foot of Jane Doe 2000 was discovered in Manorville along with John Doe 2000 with not much fuss. On Gilgo Beach there's the head of the Fire Island Lady (1996) and the right foot, head and arms of Jane Doe 2000. Seems like Gilgo Beach hasn't yet proven its long standing confidentiality to come. Peaches Doe's head and extremities? Where are they?


The Wave | Rockaway Beach, NY Newspaper Since 1893 | Rockaway Beach, NY
The Wave | Rockaway Beach, NY Newspaper Since 1893 | Rockaway Beach, NY
http://nypost.com/2007/11/24/hunt-for-clues-in-tranny-slay/
Police Blotter: Driver, 20, dies at crash site after losing control of car - QNS.com
http://nypost.com/2003/01/27/bullet-hole-in-severed-head/

I think it's important to point out that the distance between the remains is rather great. The torso and head were found roughly 68-70 miles apart. The head was found in Moriches, which is far out onto Long Island headed toward the Hamptons, and just south of Manorville. The torso was found way back west in the Rockaways, which is closer to the Gilgo Beach dumping ground, but still the most western remains found if truly a LISK victim.

John Bittrolff, a LISK suspect, lived less than six miles north of the pond where the head was found. His house literally is a straight shot north and two right turns. That's it. His childhood home was four miles south of the pond.

There really are two dumping grounds. You have the Ocean Parkway dumping grounds with Jane Does, Asian Doe, and the Gilgo Beach remains. This suggests one killer using that highway stretch. Then you have the John Bittrolff area, around Manorville, where at least two of his confirmed victims and a suspected third are found. What ties all of these people together, and shows it's the same person using the Ocean Parkway area and the Manorville area is that Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack were both found off Ocean Parkway AND in Manorville. That's how Bittrolff's name got into the mix. His dumping ground is LISK dumping ground, or they're the same person. And now here's another victim that puts the same killer in the Rockaways and then Manorville area. I fully agree this is a strong case for LISK.

 

[LR1]

Can I get some coordinates or street name the pond is on? I wonder if they've searched it. Peaches skull was never found apparently.

 

[Manwel]

So I am not sure about whether or not Andre is confirmed to be a transgender individual or not. Even though it may not seem so, the early 2000s were a very different time for the LGBT+ community, specifically for transgender individuals.

Many news sources interchanged derogatory gay slurs and derogatory transgender slurs. I hate hate HATE this word, but as a an example, many articles I found when doing my brief research, including this one which was linked in the OP, imply that Andre was a "tranny/transvestite" because they were a drag queen. In the early 2000s, much of the public simply grouped drag queens and transgender individuals into the same group, referring to them by the derogatory slurs I just mentioned. But this factually incorrect. As we know now, being a drag queen does not mean you are transgender, and being transgender does not mean you are a drag queen. Because of this stigma in the early 2000s, when many of these articles about Andre were written, we unfortunately may not ever know for sure if Andre was a drag queen, or a transgender individual unless someone close to Andre comes forward to clarify. Either way, Andre was grossly misrepresented by the media at the time.

Eddie Izzard is a great example of changing terms and perceptions over time, even from the perspective of the individual who is coming out. Izzard originally described being a "transvestite" and did not call it "drag" but then more recently came out as transgender and is genderfluid in that he identifies as both a "he" and a "she." This has been more of a process for him than say Caitlyn Jenner who lived life as a man and then transitioned. There wasn't a lot of guidance or mainstream media access until recently; Izzard may have actually been one of the earliest positive exposures anyone had to the idea of "men dressing in women's clothes." So for someone who may have been dressing in women's clothing in the early 2000s, it's safe to assume they may not have formally identified as transgender at the time.

Can I get some coordinates or street name the pond is on? I wonder if they've searched it. Peaches skull was never found apparently.

That's a good question! Seems the only reason this one was found is it was dumped in winter and the people who found it saw it protruding from ice! How grisly!

One of the articles calls it "Twin Ponds" but cites Montauk Highway and Barnes Road, which means it's either West Millpond or East Millpond, which is also near the area elementary school. There's a NY Post article where someone commented on the situation suspecting they would find the rest of the person in the spring. But I think the issue is they had already found the torso of Sugar Bear in December, this was winter 2003 when the head was found. It's likely the legs were placed somewhere else.

Hasn't it been confirmed that most of the victims do not have their full anatomical skeletons found? I thought I read that there are still parts of Valerie Mack missing? If so, there may be a third dumping ground.

 

[DetectiveB]

Another female body found in Manorville July 30, 2020. No other details on case or victim- as of yet. Woman Found Dead In Wooded Area On Long Island

 

[Manwel]

Another female body found in Manorville July 30, 2020. No other details on case or victim- as of yet. Woman Found Dead In Wooded Area On Long Island

Whoa!!! But doesn't sound like a LISK situation involving dismemberment. I'm convinced the lack of recent activity of LISK, no more presumed disappearances in a similar manner, is something significant. I still like Bittrolff the most for it. But you never know.

 

[Manwel]

Also, Manorville is basically Cabot Cove at this point. Way too many homicides in that community.

 

[LR1]

One of the articles calls it "Twin Ponds" but cites Montauk Highway and Barnes Road, which means it's either West Millpond or East Millpond, which is also near the area elementary school. There's a NY Post article where someone commented on the situation suspecting they would find the rest of the person in the spring. But I think the issue is they had already found the torso of Sugar Bear in December, this was winter 2003 when the head was found. It's likely the legs were placed somewhere else.

Hasn't it been confirmed that most of the victims do not have their full anatomical skeletons found? I thought I read that there are still parts of Valerie Mack missing? If so, there may be a third dumping ground.

The Post article says his arms and legs were found miles away in bags sometime after the head was found but doesn't give a location. I don't know if that location has been released but it would be good to know. Admittedly I'm not fully up to speed on his case. I haven't seen anything about other parts of Valerie still missing but apparently both Fire island JD and Peaches have parts still undiscovered, those being 96's torso and 97's skull.

Related or not it appears Andre would be another in which efforts were made and chances taken to scatter parts in at least three different locations. That's a lot of riding around with body parts in your vehicle. It is however hard to fathom someone being into killing both predominantly petit-ish young white females as well as in Andre's case, a rather large trans POC. That's almost like two separate personalities, likely requiring separate motives if indeed it is the same killer. That and the always present realization that there are millions upon millions of people between NYC and Manorville leaves me unsure if they are related.

 

[Jscv]

An article with Sugar Bear's mom from last week saying he's being investigated and a lisk victim. There are a few more pics of sugar bear shown in the video on this link. It does look like sugar bear in the picture.

Mom thinks death of son who dressed as a woman, found dismembered is tied to Gilgo Beach murders

 

[Emre E]

The Post article says his arms and legs were found miles away in bags sometime after the head was found but doesn't give a location. I don't know if that location has been released but it would be good to know. Admittedly I'm not fully up to speed on his case. I haven't seen anything about other parts of Valerie still missing but apparently both Fire island JD and Peaches have parts still undiscovered, those being 96's torso and 97's skull.

Related or not it appears Andre would be another in which efforts were made and chances taken to scatter parts in at least three different locations. That's a lot of riding around with body parts in your vehicle. It is however hard to fathom someone being into killing both predominantly petit-ish young white females as well as in Andre's case, a rather large trans POC. That's almost like two separate personalities, likely requiring separate motives if indeed it is the same killer. That and the always present realization that there are millions upon millions of people between NYC and Manorville leaves me unsure if they are related.

There is a possible location for extremities that I suggested in the first post of this thread.

There was a news story about Andre on one of the links I provided at the end of the post (much of them are dead links now).. In that story there was a map titled "Mapping the story" where it showed the locations mentioned in the story with pins on the map.. Rockaway, Moriches etc..

Anyway, five pins matched with five named locations but there was a sixth pin on the map , to the east on Sunrise Highway which had no corresponding locations named in the story, except the phrase "his arms and legs were found later miles away".. This is how I figured that out. I can't say I'm 100% right, but I'm probably right.

Furthermore the story was published in Late Fall/Early Winter 2007.. There was a former member LindsayLohan6 here. She also picked up the vibe when checking out the gay/trans forums, especially around fall of 2007.. The members of the community were posting about police paying them visits them and asking questions. I kinda remember Sugar Bear was even mentioned by name..

So, combining these two clues, I suggested that his extremities were found next to Sunrise Highway sometime around Fall 2007, which briefly caused the police to revisit the case.

Like I wrote above, I can't say I'm 100% right, but I'm probably right.

 

[Manwel]

The Post article says his arms and legs were found miles away in bags sometime after the head was found but doesn't give a location. I don't know if that location has been released but it would be good to know. Admittedly I'm not fully up to speed on his case. I haven't seen anything about other parts of Valerie still missing but apparently both Fire island JD and Peaches have parts still undiscovered, those being 96's torso and 97's skull.

Related or not it appears Andre would be another in which efforts were made and chances taken to scatter parts in at least three different locations. That's a lot of riding around with body parts in your vehicle. It is however hard to fathom someone being into killing both predominantly petit-ish young white females as well as in Andre's case, a rather large trans POC. That's almost like two separate personalities, likely requiring separate motives if indeed it is the same killer. That and the always present realization that there are millions upon millions of people between NYC and Manorville leaves me unsure if they are related.

I'm really curious where this other region is and if they've recovered anything and just haven't said publicly? That could be one of those things the police keep quiet to rule out suspects? Say they have a third dumping ground at like, I dunno, Montauk or West Hampton Dunes let's say, and they want the eventual suspect to tell them, "I also dumped in X location," then they'll know they didn't just get it from a newspaper article.

As for the differences, it really comes down to whether this is a Craigslist encounters issue. I don't think I read any indication that Sugar Bear was participating in escort work in the way it's suspected the white victims were. How Peaches and her daughter factor in remains equally confusing. Was she an escort? Was Asian Doe an escort? If they all were, that explains how the murderer gained contact with them. If some were and others weren't, then do you have some kind of second murderer using the same area and they just both had the same idea about remoteness? Although research points toward killers only targeting their own skin color, this is not a rule and plenty of white killers killed black victims and black killers killed white victims. So I wouldn't immediately write off possibility that the killer of the white victims is also the killer of Peaches and Sugar Bear.

 

[Sallyla]

That article with his mother, Jordan, just kills me. I have three boys and I loved them from the moment they were conceived too. The way she describes Andre just makes me think of what I think about my boys. I hope she gets answers soon.

 

[lilojlo77]

Lilo/Jlo77 think the Suffolk County's former chief of police,James Burke, had a lot to do with LISK! Was he befriending these women and lured them to their horrific deaths! Lilo/Jlo believe he had/was a very big part in these murders. Does anyone else believe/think that?

 

[DEB-Z]

I completely agree and I think it’s even possible we are dealing with more than two killers between all the victims associated with the LISK killings.

I agree with more than one killer:
I believe in a group from the gated neighborhood were throwing snuff parties or having human hunting parties...
With multiple men involved; each might have their own style of kill, and victim preference...
A few of the main players appear to be related to the police department; thus nobody looking for missing young women/men...

 

[DEB-Z]

Lilo/Jlo77 think the Suffolk County's former chief of police,James Burke, had a lot to do with LISK! Was he befriending these women and lured them to their horrific deaths! Lilo/Jlo believe he had/was a very big part in these murders. Does anyone else believe/think that?

I would not be surprised if there was a group of men involved in either snuff parties and/or hunting for humans...
Thus the different type of kills...
Yet keep them close enough to be nearby trophies...

 

[J Block]

I think you be right 240 is an area code for Montgomery county MD which is literally on the border of DC where we know Jessica had worked.

I can translate that for you

“hommie (sic) twist = my girl/chick/broad

“Shorty 240” = referring to a type of woman certain men like. “Short” woman who weighs no less than 240lbs

 

[jpfdtriggerH]

The Post article says his arms and legs were found miles away in bags sometime after the head was found but doesn't give a location. I don't know if that location has been released but it would be good to know. Admittedly I'm not fully up to speed on his case. I haven't seen anything about other parts of Valerie still missing but apparently both Fire island JD and Peaches have parts still undiscovered, those being 96's torso and 97's skull.

Related or not it appears Andre would be another in which efforts were made and chances taken to scatter parts in at least three different locations. That's a lot of riding around with body parts in your vehicle. It is however hard to fathom someone being into killing both predominantly petit-ish young white females as well as in Andre's case, a rather large trans POC. That's almost like two separate personalities, likely requiring separate motives if indeed it is the same killer. That and the always present realization that there are millions upon millions of people between NYC and Manorville leaves me unsure if they are related.

I think we might also consider the asian doe and sugar bear homicides were "criminis causa" that means a crime to hide another crime. Asian doe might have some connection with peaches or others in that time line, and sugar bear might be related also with jessica taylor. We dont know how they might be related but it is possible this guy does not only kill victims for pleasure but also for convenience if victims were related in any way.