Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #51

[CSIDreamer]

Thank you, I had heard that before about free compost. Not sure how that got equated to left over dirt from digging up the bodies - and I understood it was at the daughter's house across the street as she was the one moving?

This is why we use those MOO JMO IMO thingies. Otherwise rumor or misremembered unlinkable comments become fact.

 

[indicolite22]

Without the cellphone location data there would have been no search warrant for Chad's backyard. If Chad sold the property and moved, would there still be a chance of the new owners letting the police check the backyard without a warrant, let's say with cadaver dogs?

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Thank you for keeping us posted.
I am glad they aren't just getting rid of all of it and instead, just moving it to another place in town.

I’m not sure if they are able to obtain what was there originally. But there will be a new spot temporarily and hopefully it can be filled.

I know some people have mentioned that it seems like a false sense of comfort. To these families and to the community here, we are all looking for comfort or a way to say we love/care about you. Everyone is grieving and processing in their own way and although temporary it provides some calm and comfort. So at this moment in time this is the best we can do.

I know that out at the original spot there were a couple things mentioning Tammy and Charles. These two are just as important and mattered too and it was nice to see others cared about them too.

All jmo moo

 

[indicolite22]

This is why we use those MOO JMO IMO thingies. Otherwise rumor or misremembered unlinkable comments become fact.

I don't think that's always sufficient. You can't make a statement containing concrete new information (like the one about the compost) and sell it as opinion. It needs to be formulated as a hypothesis and that doesn't work in all cases.

 

[Diddian]

But, at some point, in some unrecorded conversation, Chad must have refused to obtain a divorce from Tammy. I'm not sure that Chad's intention was anything other than a clandestine affair, thought of as a multiple wife ( I mean more than one).

Remember the part in MG's recorded phone call where MG says something about Lori being with Chad before he was even divorced?

Lori replies that she "was never 'with' him" - meaning I assume no technical adultery before they married, and that he "was never divorced."

Somewhere else that I cannot remember now in my reading, I had got this impression before, that for Chad, he intended to remain "sinless and without spot", no divorce and no adultery.

There are various points in time where it appears as though Chad may have intervened and influenced Lori's actions. I have always thought it odd that Lori left CV (taking Tylee with her and going to Hawaii) and then she later went back. It seems to me someone must have intervened to tell her that this was not the way to proceed; instead her separation from CV should be done in such a way as to provide greater benefits to her than just freedom from CV and the responsibilities of caring for JJ.

Lori had already been divorced 3 times, so she probably wasn't opposed in principle to another for herself. But, her last divorce had led to a long, contentious, and expensive custody battle over Tylee and CV had already demonstrated (by temporarily moving JJ to Texas with him) that he was invested in JJ's protection and well-being. And there was also the monthly income associated with benefits in caring for an adopted special needs child. Even if she didn't want JJ, Lori did want that income. So, she could probably see that if she divorced, another battle over child custody (and the associated funds) was ahead.

So, I think Lori was open to considering ways to ditch CV and responsibilities without losing any of the income to which she had become accustomed. I really think Lori thought of her children in terms of $ commodities - what $ can being the custodial parent bring her? I suspect the prolonged and nasty child custody battle over Tylee was at least as much about the child support $ as it was about the child and I suspect her reluctance to surrender JJ to Kay was as much about keeping that monthly income as it was about her spite toward Kay over the lost $1 million in CV's life insurance.

What did Lori do when she went back to CV? She attempted to secure herself as beneficiary on CV's life insurance (by putting the lock on CV's account, requiring a PIN to enter) and according to what she told MG, Lori began "getting CV's finances in order." I suspect it was Chad's influence that drove her to get back together with CV to get those ducks in a line. ETA: After all, Chad had the presence of mind to increase TD's life insurance limits before her death.

So whose idea was it to murder CV? Well, we have MG telling us that Chad told Lori that they could not divorce their spouses and we also have Chad telling Lori that CV's body has been taken over by the spirit of Nick Schneider or Ned Snyder (I've never been very clear on the name) who is violating Lori and that that spirit can only be released by the death of CV. So, while he may not have ordered the hit on CV, he created the narrative that made CV's demise necessary for Lori's protection and Lori and Alex bought into that narrative. Whether they actually believed the possessing spirit story or just adopted it because the ends ($1 million plus freedom without divorce and associated court battles) justified the means to them is an open question. Alex assured MG that he believed in the whole zombie idea, but one could certainly argue that he may have had ulterior motives for telling her that.

As far as Chad's opposition to divorce in his own case, my guess is that much of Chad's reputation and associated earnings rested upon his being a bigwig in fringe LDS groups that chose to submit to certain parts of LDS doctrine, but chose not to submit to other parts. And not divorcing from a sealed marriage was one of the parts they submitted to, or at least that they required of their leaders. To divorce Tammy would have been a public act with a high cost in reputation for him. Much better to be the grieving widower who happened to find a second chance at marital bliss, assuming he could pull it all off. And even better if he could raise the insurance limit on wife #1 before entering the "second segment of his life" with wife #2.

All MOO.

 

[indicolite22]

Yup, that cell phone data. Would have been different if Alex's cell phone only showed a visit to the Daybell property, but as you point out, supposedly there would have also been pings hitting all over the Western United States that LE had to rule out. And who is to say that Alex had no business on Chad's property, considering the ongoing relationship Chad had with his sister?

This leads me back to thinking that there is another source of information, an informer. Who would dare say that they think the bodies might be buried on Chad's property and be deemed credible?

The location data was rather specific. The margin of error was about 4 meters in most data points mentioned. What business did Alex have in Chad's backyard, under the tree near the pond and over the pet cemetery? He was there for hours in Tylee's case.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I don't think that's always sufficient. You can't make a statement containing concrete new information (like the one about the compost) and sell it as opinion. It needs to be formulated as a hypothesis and that doesn't work in all cases.

Well the specific subject yes thats more than sufficient. Because it was never in MSM. So for purposes of this website, it was never concrete new information and should not be here, in my opinion. It has now morphed into "Breaking News! Daybell family gives away excess dirt from excavation of remains". We don't even need "hypothesis" talk to figure out this is just unnecessary all around. JMO

I've questioned people before on a couple of statements and basically get told "well its obvious". Again, we need to differentiate between fact and not.

ETA I literally have no idea what I just said. Extend some grace, pretty please lol.

 

[Tricia]

An audio expert (my friend Kevin) who offered his services to help Websleuths if something came along where his expertise could be used has cleaned up the audio between Lori and Chad the day the police discovered the bodies of JJ and Tylee on Chad's property. Lori called Chad from jail.

Kevin is someone I know and I can assure you he is an expert in his field of audio and he has done some forensic audio work as well.

There were several places where you couldn't understand what Chad said. Now, with the clean up of the audio, you can possibly understand certain areas that were not understandable before.

Let me stress, we are not stating this is absolutely 100 percent but it is what our audio expert can hear. If you have good audio you may be able to hear the same, something different, or you might not be able to understand it at all.
I will post the link to the recording. If given a choice I would open the audio in your browser but that's just me.
Then I am going to put up the script from KSLRadio.com. Then I will put up Kevin's script. You will be able to see the places where you can possibly now hear what we couldn't hear before.

Kevin pointed out he is working with a recording with all kinds of major issues as far as how many things are interfering. He said if he had the original he could do a lot more but we know that won't happen so this is the best we can do.

Thanks to Kevin and the many hours he put into this project for Websleuths.

Here is the audio LORI DAYBELL CALL V2 - ForensicAudioLA@Gmail.com

Here is the script from KSL Radio
Operator
“A call from [unintelligible].”

Lori Daybell
“Lori.”

Operator
“An inmate at the Madison County Jail. This call is subject to recording and monitoring. If you do not wish to talk, hang up now. Thank you for using Telmate.”

Lori Daybell
“Hi, babe.”

Chad Daybell
“Hello.”

Lori Daybell
“Are you okay?”

Chad Daybell
“No, they’re searching the property.”

Lori Daybell
“The house right now?”

Chad Daybell
“Yeah, yeah. [Unintelligible, possibly ‘not the house.’] So Mark Means [Lori Daybell’s attorney] will be talking to you.”

Lori Daybell
“Okay. What, are they in the house?”

Chad Daybell
“No, they’re out in the property.”

Lori Daybell
“Are they seizing stuff again?”

Chad Daybell
“They’re searching. There’s a search warrant and so [unintelligible] with the kids.”


Lori Daybell
“Okay.”

Chad Daybell
“So yeah, saw you’d tried to pull up a, a call. I’m glad you called.”

Lori Daybell
“Yeah.”

Chad Daybell
“So, we’ll see what transpires.”

Lori Daybell
“‘Kay.”

Chad Daybell
“[Unintelligible]”

Lori Daybell
“What do you want me to do? Pray?”

Chad Daybell
“What?”

Lori Daybell
“What do you want me to–”

Chad Daybell
“No, [talking over Lori] I’m sorry. ”

Lori Daybell
“[Laughs]”

Chad Daybell
“Well, [unintelligible]”

Lori Daybell
“Mmmkay. What can I do for you?”

Chad Daybell
“I’m [unintelligible] pretty calm. I would call Mark, though. We need, can you just talk with him?”

Lori Daybell
“Have you talked to him already?”

Chad Daybell
“[Unintelligible, possibly ‘I’ve tried to call him since.’]”


Lori Daybell
“So he knows what they’re doing?”

Chad Daybell
“Yeah. Looks like I’ve, a call from somebody else who I need to talk to, honey. I love you so much.”

Lori Daybell
“Okay. I love you. Should I try to call you later?”

Chad Daybell
“Umm, I don’t know. I, I don’t know. Uh, you can try, yeah. I’ll answer if I can.”

Lori Daybell
“Okay.”

Chad Daybell
“I love you and we’ll talk soon.”

Lori Daybell
“Okay, baby, I love you.”

Chad Daybell
“Okay. Love you. Goodbye.”


Here is the script as our audio expert hears it after cleaning up the audio. When you see [these brackets] this is where he puts in what he hears on his audio equipment. He also uses the abbreviation "poss" for "possibly"
Lori Daybell
“Lori.”
Operator
“An inmate at the Madison County Jail. This call is subject to recording and monitoring. If you do not wish to talk, hang up now. Thank you for using Telmate.”
Lori Daybell
“Hi, babe.”
Chad Daybell
“Hello.”
Lori Daybell
“Are you okay?”
Chad Daybell
“No, they’re searching the property.”
Lori Daybell
“The house right now?”
Chad Daybell
“Yeah, yeah. [possibly…. No Evidence ’] So Mark Means [Lori Daybell’s attorney] will be talking to you.”
Lori Daybell
“Okay. What, are they in the house?”
Chad Daybell
“No, they’re out in the property.”
Lori Daybell
“Are they seizing stuff again?”
Chad Daybell
“They’re searching. There’s a search warrant and so [possibly One guy just took evidence of the kids .”

Lori Daybell
“Okay.”
Chad Daybell
“So yeah, saw you’d tried to pull up a, a call. I’m glad you called.”
Lori Daybell
“Yeah.”
Chad Daybell
“So, we’ll see what transpires.”
Lori Daybell
“‘Kay.”
Chad Daybell
“[poss Nothing to lose, just play it out or Nothing to do, just wait it out ]”
Lori Daybell
“What do you want me to do? Pray?”
Chad Daybell
“What?”
Lori Daybell
“What do you want me to–”
Chad Daybell
“No, [poss Not Pray or Not Quite ] I’m sorry. ”
Lori Daybell
“[Laughs]”
Chad Daybell
“Well, [unintelligible]”
Lori Daybell
“Mmmkay. What can I do for you?”
Chad Daybell
“[WELL YOU CAN TELL I’M ] pretty calm. I would call Mark, though. We need, can you just talk with him?”
Lori Daybell
“Have you talked to him already?”
Chad Daybell
“[I DID CALL HIM SINCE ’]”

Lori Daybell
“So he knows what they’re doing?”
Chad Daybell
“Yeah. Looks like I’ve, a call from somebody else who I need to talk to, honey. I love you so much.”
Lori Daybell
“Okay. I love you. Should I try to call you later?”
Chad Daybell
“Umm, I don’t know. I, I don’t know. Uh, you can try, yeah. I’ll answer if I can.”
Lori Daybell
“Okay.”
Chad Daybell
“I love you and we’ll talk soon.”
Lori Daybell
“Okay, baby, I love you.”
Chad Daybell
“Okay. Love you. Goodbye.”

AGAIN, CLICK HERE FOR THE LINK TO THE CLEANED UP AUDIO
https://soundcloud.com/user-790282233/lori-daybell-call-v2-forensicaudiolagmailcom
https://soundcloud.com/user-790282233/lori-daybell-call-v2-forensicaudiolagmailcom

 

[Forever Young]

The location data was rather specific. The margin of error was about 4 meters in most data points mentioned. What business did Alex have in Chad's backyard, under the tree near the pond and over the pet cemetery? He was there for hours in Tylee's case.

Oh, they could have just been talking about the Book of Mormon, just shooting the breeze. IMO, cell phone pings do not automatically equal the location of JJ and Tylee. I'm sure there were lots of other places that Alex's cell phone placed him at for over two hours.

The police seemed to have correlated it with not only Chad's text message, but verification of a pet cemetery by Tammy's sister. Same sister that Chad complained about spreading "conspiracy theories"?

Just saying that I think it was more than just cell phone pings when at this point it had not been confirmed that the children were no longer living. IMO

 

[Tortoise]

On 31st October 2019 CD published an essay in the AVOW newsletter "Moving into the Second Half of My Life"

He wrote -"Stepping into the Future - Tammy conveyed to me several messages in [?] and I'm in the process of implementing what she has told me to do. She has indicated that my life has two parts that were planned even before I came to earth."

link Here's part of the essay Chad Daybell wrote about his wife 12 days after she died | East Idaho News

I was just listening to MG's recorded phone call on Dec 8th (start at 13:20 in video) and he tells MG:-

"all these conspiracy theories just make me sick to my stomach, just absolutely sick. I know [...] been told three years that Tammy would pass away at a young age and I had no idea that Lori would even be a part of my life, I just knew that my life had two segments and I know Tammy's on a special mission and she's with my kids, she's visited them..."

Incidentally he continues on to deny that this was planned by him and Lori and it's so worth watching his face in court as he listens to himself saying -

"there's so much Melanie that you just have to have faith and this is not some sort of master plan, there's no way Lori and I [laughing] could have ever come up with this..."

moo

 

[indicolite22]

Well the specific subject yes thats more than sufficient. Because it was never in MSM. So for purposes of this website, it was never concrete new information and should not be here, in my opinion. It has now morphed into "Breaking News! Daybell family gives away excess dirt from excavation of remains". We don't even need "hypothesis" talk to figure out this is just unnecessary all around. JMO

I've questioned people before on a couple of statements and basically get told "well its obvious". Again, we need to differentiate between fact and not.

ETA I literally have no idea what I just said. Extend some grace, pretty please lol.

By "concrete information" I didn't imply it was factual. I meant that you couldn't say, "X was selling Y on fb" and add JMO to be within TOS, but in some other cases you could formulate it as your speculation or opinion. You're describing something else - factual info that gets repeated many times. In that case, source should be provided upon request (IMO).

 

[indicolite22]

Oh, they could have just been talking about the Book of Mormon, just shooting the breeze. IMO, cell phone pings do not automatically equal the location of JJ and Tylee. I'm sure there were lots of other places that Alex's cell phone placed him at for over two hours.

The police seemed to have correlated it with not only Chad's text message, but verification of a pet cemetery by Tammy's sister. Same sister that Chad complained about spreading "conspiracy theories"?

Just saying that I think it was more than just cell phone pings when at this point it had not been confirmed that the children were no longer living. IMO

I'm aware of the multiple corroborating evidence as it was stated in court documents. Personally I would find the ping data, coupled with the dates the children were last seen, highly suspicious.

 

[CSIDreamer]

By "concrete information" I didn't imply it was factual. I meant that you couldn't say, "X was selling Y on fb" and add JMO to be within TOS, but in some other cases you could formulate it as your speculation or opinion. You're describing something else - factual info that gets repeated many times. In that case, source should be provided upon request (IMO).

I think by the time I got done digging out the hole I wrote myself in to I said several things.

 

[JDough]

I still can't get over how a mother could either participate in, or know about the impending murder of her own children (which may have been the plan all along), and go on with her daily life like nothing ever happened. It's just unimaginable to me.

Same feelings for the death of Lori's ex-husband, brother (conveniently), and Chad's first wife. Chad and Lori have effectively eliminated nearly every person who would object, or knew their dastardly deeds and could act as a witness against them. Puppet masters with no conscious- that's what they are.

 

[lake daze]

I'm not really surprised the children are buried on Chad's property. Moving bodies in a car is always risky, you could be stopped by the police, have a car accident, or the car could break down. Also, evidence in a car is often easier to find. And there could always be someone that was around when dumping a body, you could be seen by them. Burying those kids so close to his home is a more controlled experience. People are always working in their own yards and we don't always take notice of what they are doing. Also, remember, this wasn't a huge story when the kids were killed. It took months before their disappearance was noticed. I doubt Chad and Lori knew this crime would be so widely reported. I think Chad was too stupid to know that he would be linked to Lori and her kids too. He probably felt that he didn't know those kids well, so no one would think he was involved.

 

[GRT]

What you are saying is all fine. BUT...once they heard CD speaking of their moms death on that phone call and knowing he LIED to them, then they know he is a liar. Period. Did you listen to the call? He said he and Garth were with her when she died. He said his kids arrived within 20 minutes.

But, on a post right after her death, he said he awoke at 6 am Alone and she was already dead. The coroner came and said she had been dead since 2 am. He said on the call Tammy was sick with heart issues. Her children and parents said she was healthy and preparing for a marathon.

Which is it Chad?

CD is a liar to be sure, and, JMOO, but I'm pretty sure he convinced LV to kill her kids -- but I doubt his own devoted kids will stop loving him. They likely feel betrayed, deceived, and incredibly hurt, but I'm guessing they will ultimately follow the belief system of "hate the sin, love the sinner," because they have a lifetime of history with the man.

Of course, if they didn't love him to begin with -- some kids don't -- they could hate him right now. I'm just thinking of other stories where a family member killed a family member or killed someone else, and a lot of times, blood is still thicker than water.

And, I keep hearing about someone (a daughter?) who keeps pulling faces at the media and law enforcement.

The kids may disown him - - but there's also a chance they'll close ranks.

 

[GRT]

I'm not really surprised the children are buried on Chad's property. Moving bodies in a car is always risky, you could be stopped by the police, have a car accident, or the car could break down. Also, evidence in a car is often easier to find.
....respectfully snipped for focus...

That makes me wonder if that's what all the duct tape was for--to cover JJ so completely that he did not leave DNA evidence in the vehicle that hauled his body?

That also makes me wonder if the police tested Alex's vehicles for DNA?

 

[vislaw]

I had a few moments while waiting in the doctor's office to collect my thoughts and write the following essay:

Lessons from the Casey Anthony Trial

At this point we are essentially in a waiting game to see what the next moves will be by the prosecution. It appears likely charges will eventually be filed relating to either or both deaths of spouses Tammy and Charles. We simply don’t have any notion what evidence has been gathered relating to those potential homicides. As far as considering the deaths of Tylee and J.J., though, we have enough facts already to convince me we will almost certainly see charges brought for conspiracy to commit murder against both Chad and Lori in the near future.

Some people here have expressed concerns as to whether the prosecution will have enough evidence to successfully bring murder charges, reasoning that Alex Cox will be a convenient scapegoat who obviously is unable to defend himself or counter any claims. This is fair commentary and one need only look back to the trial of Casey Anthony to see some disturbing parallels. You’ll recall that Jose Baez shocked everyone when he opened his case claiming that Caylee Anthony had accidentally drowned in the family pool a full month before she was reported missing:

BAEZ: "How in the world can a mother wait 30 days before ever reporting her child missing? That's insane, that's bizarre... The answer is actually relatively simple. She never was missing. Caylee Anthony died on June 16, 2008 when she drowned in her family's swimming pool. … After Caylee died, Casey did what she's been doing all her life, hiding her pain, going into that dark corner and pretending that she does not live in the situation that she's living in... it all began when Casey was 8 years old and her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately and it escalated,"​

Baez also claimed that Casey Anthony's father, George Anthony, found the body in the backyard pool and helped dispose of the body. The defense lawyer even suggested George Anthony planted evidence to implicate his daughter and deflect suspicion from himself.

"What makes this case unique is the family that it happened to. You will hear stories about a family that is incredibly dysfunctional, you will hear about ugly things, secret things, things that people don't speak about."​

In my opinion, this is practically a road map for the defense to use for Lori and Chad. One of the jurors in the Anthony trial, Jennifer Ford, explained their acquittal as being premised on the prosecution’s inability to prove how Casey died. To her, the cockamamie story Baez told seemed more logical than the prosecution theory, which was admittedly nonspecific and thin. Here's how Ms. Ford explained her view:

"I'm not saying I believe the defense. Obviously, it wasn't proven so I'm not taking that and speculating at all. But it's easier for me logically to get from point A to point B" via the defense argument.”​

In the Anthony trial the prosecution was able to put George Anthony on the stand to deny the shocking claims Baez made in his opening statement. Nevertheless, the prosecution never recovered from the inability to prove definitively how Casey died and I believe avoiding this defense trap will be critical to convicting Chad and Lori here.

A good defense attorney will likely play the “cult” card and claim that both Chad and Lori fervently believed the kids were possessed and their souls in jeopardy. It follows that the defense may argue that neither Chad nor Lori had any idea that Alex might harm the children. A clever attorney may even make the outrageous claim that Alex tearfully came forward to say that Tylee’s death was an accident or that she even killed herself, thus setting up the “Casey Anthony” defense that all the lies and dysfunctional behavior by Chad and Lori were merely misplaced reactions to what Alex told them, influenced by their bizarro beliefs.

J.J.’s subsequent death two weeks later definitely represents an exponentially greater complication for the story, but I believe the defense will try to spin it as another “accident” whereby Alex inadvertently precipitated a fatal overdose. We don’t know if the State will have more evidence about the precise cause of death, but given the length of time the bodies were buried it is possible that there simply won’t be sufficient evidence to prove how Tylee and J.J. died.

How, then, does the State avoid the missteps that led to Casey Anthony’s acquittal? I have some thoughts for what they are worth:

1) The prosecution must unload both barrels on Alex Cox as a murderer. They should convene several mock juries or shadow juries to test the most effective means to persuade the jury as to the fact murder occurred. The prosecution gets to go first, which is an incredible advantage if used properly. Many of my clients have utilized mock and shadow juries and have changed their presentation accordingly.

2) The State should file Motions in Limine at the start of trial to try and get judicial assistance to limit speculation or unfounded claims like those advanced by Baez in the Anthony trial.

3) All proof should be designed to reinforce the theory of conspiracy. This is the law of Idaho and it should be woven into the presentation of evidence explicitly:

CHAPTER 17 - CONSPIRACIES

18-1701. CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY DEFINED. If two (2) or more persons combine or conspire to commit any crime or offense prescribed by the laws of the state of Idaho, and one (1) or more of such persons does any act to effect the object of the combination or conspiracy, each shall be punishable upon conviction in the same manner and to the same extent as is provided under the laws of the state of Idaho for the punishment of the crime or offenses that each combined to commit.
​

In this case there is overwhelming evidence that Alex was a follower – not the leader. All his activities, movements and behaviors were coordinated with Lori and Chad. From September through December he was part and parcel with Lori and Chad and the prosecution should present them as co-conspirators.

I would hope during their opening statement the prosecution will highlight with video, audio and static boards the extent of lies told by both Chad and Lori and characterize these lies as furtherance of the Cox/Daybell/Vallow conspiracy. The more they tie the proof to this being the actions of a trio, the more likely any attempts to use the “Casey Anthony” approach will fail.

NOTE: Regarding Shadow Juries: I participated in a major civil case with multiple defendants only to have one of the defendants suddenly negotiate a settlement at the end of the first week of trial. It was always a mystery why this occurred when it did but almost six years later I was reading Trial Diplomacy Journal and happened across an article written by the attorney who represented that defendant. The article revealed that the defense in that case had assembled a shadow jury and took over the top floor of the local Holiday Inn where they housed their jury secretly. Unbeknownst to us, the court reporter was delivering daily copy to the defense at the hotel at 6 pm every day and the shadow jury listened to all the testimony read by actors playing the parts of the attorneys, judge and witnesses in a makeshift courtroom. Each day's trial was reenacted late into the night and the shadow jury's reactions and impressions were dissected by two psychologists to learn how the evidence was being received. By the end of the week they reached the conclusion that they were likely to be hit by an eight-figure punitive award based on the shadow jury's reaction and, thus, they elected to settle the case for whatever we would accept (a much lower figure, of course).

 

[RickshawFan]

I believe the dismemberment was a result of the attempted burning. I don’t think it was done prior to the fire. MOO

The definition of dismemberment requires someone to sever limb from limb. It does not mean falling apart.

 

[Dylansmom08]

I'm wondering what the point in using the jail phone call in evidence is for this case? I mean they didn't really say anything incriminating on there they knew they were being recorded unless it was something in the parts we couldn't make out and if so then chances are a jury wouldn't be able to make it out either. Perhaps it was to speak for how calm they both seemed in the phone call, like it was no big deal that detectives and forensics were there digging up the property looking for Tylee and JJ.