It is highly unusual for a child to wear the same size in clothing as their age, particularly in something like panties. Since a waist on a child is not very pronounced, just by pictures of JonBenet alone, I believe she would have needed a size 8. I think a size 6 would have been entirely too small!
Lies point us to the truth
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proust20
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With PR going so overboard with the Christmas theme, I find it curious that the kids, especially JB, did not have Holiday type bed clothes. Shouldn't such outfits made for better opening the packages photos? This seem like the sort of detail to which the image aware PR would have attended. The same goes for JB's bedroom which from the pics, does not have Holiday sheets.
proust20
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While Bloomingdale's is a fine store, it is not in the luxury category. For clothing her little pageant princess, it's amazing that PR didn't shop for JB at Bergdorf Goodman, which was just up the street from FAO Schwarz. It's not like PR was ever operating on a budget! Similar is JB's GAP top, which is nice, but available to thousands of other little girls, and hence, not glamorous.
proust20,
Sure, but Patsy was likely being pragmatic as letting JonBenet loose in Bergdorf Goodman would mean digging out the platinum credit card, or being valet served when the whole idea was to allow JonBenet to be comfortable shopping.
JonBenet's personality was developing as well as her dress sense along with her sensitivity to fashion hence the GAP top.
JonBenet was probably bored wearing other peoples picks which is why she wanted to wear the GAP top to the White's party and not match Patsy's red top.
This assumes Patsy is telling the truth and not manufacturing a diversionary theme away from other family members?
JonBenet likely thought her choice of black velvet against her white socks and white GAP top complemented her hairstyle?
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Rain on my Parade
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proust20,
I think glamour was saved for show. JB did wear BR hand me downs according to one of the housekeepers/babysitters. I think it was Linda Wilcox that stated this.
Also, when PR called 911 she did not speak JonBenét’s name once. She objectified her by doing this. Sure, makes one wonder exactly what went on in that house that night.
Rain on my Parade,
Sure, but the alternative story could be that the size-12's were never wrapped, being so small they could be wrapped up as needed?
No list of the gifts contained in the Partially Opened Gifts has ever been released just as the details of JonBenet's underwear taken from the house, i.e. size & Day Of the Week, has never been released. So BPD must have some evidence we do not know about?
The Occam answer is that the size-12's were lying about in the basement and as you suggest in arms reach as staging material?
Unless of course the person who opened the already wrapped gifts knew they were available?
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Rain on my Parade
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proust20
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UKGuy
Oh, I wasn't aware that the kids went along on the shopping trip to NYC. Does that mean that they also went to FAO Schwarz together, which would spoil any surprises? JB may have been a bit of a tomboy? I don't really know. However, it'd seem that PR should want her future Miss America to get accustomed to grand surroundings and being waited on. I don't see PR having any problems with flashing around credit cards in any case. Just sayin'.
Of course, we shall never know; but, sometimes I wonder if at a certain point in her maturation, JB may have turned on PR as being a Mommie Dearest.
Maybe this is my faulty memory; but, I thought that the Bloomies underwear were meant as a birthday gift, not a Christmas one, for PR's niece. Is this incorrect?
And while I am here, allow me to add something off topic. It strikes me as mean and stingy that the Rs refused LHP a loan of $2,000, given their ample resources. Did they really need every last bit of JR's 118k bonus? Pious words about Christianity come much easier than actual acts of charity. Not nice people for whom to work. This may explain in part why the Rs asserted that a resentful employee of JR's might be the responsible party. I know that I'd not want him as my boss.
Oh, I wasn't aware that the kids went along on the shopping trip to NYC. Does that mean that they also went to FAO Schwarz together, which would spoil any surprises? JB may have been a bit of a tomboy? I don't really know. However, it'd seem that PR should want her future Miss America to get accustomed to grand surroundings and being waited on. I don't see PR having any problems with flashing around credit cards in any case. Just sayin'.
Of course, we shall never know; but, sometimes I wonder if at a certain point in her maturation, JB may have turned on PR as being a Mommie Dearest.
Maybe this is my faulty memory; but, I thought that the Bloomies underwear were meant as a birthday gift, not a Christmas one, for PR's niece. Is this incorrect?
And while I am here, allow me to add something off topic. It strikes me as mean and stingy that the Rs refused LHP a loan of $2,000, given their ample resources. Did they really need every last bit of JR's 118k bonus? Pious words about Christianity come much easier than actual acts of charity. Not nice people for whom to work. This may explain in part why the Rs asserted that a resentful employee of JR's might be the responsible party. I know that I'd not want him as my boss.
And of course had opened them prior to JonBenet being assaulted.
Otherwise how would this person know to open these particular gifts when looking for underwear to match JonBenet's for Day Of The Week?
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Venom
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Good point. We aren't rich by any sense, but I still make sure my kids have Christmas pj's. It makes for great pictures and Christmas spirit.
Rain on my Parade
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Proust20,
Patsy Ramsey Interview - Atlanta, Georgia - August 28, 2000 Interviewed by: Michael Kane, Bruce Levine, Mitch Morrissey, Mark Beckner, Tom Wickman, Tom Trujillo and Jane Harmer
Q. (By Ms. Harmer) Was there - I'm
3 sorry. Do you recall making a decision then
4 not to give them to Jenny or did JonBenet
5 express an interest in them; therefore, you
6 didn't give them to Jenny? How did that --
7 A. I can't say for sure. I mean, I
8 think I bought them with the intention of
9 sending them in a package of Christmas things
10 to Atlanta. Obviously I didn't get that
11 together, so I just put them in her, her
12 panty drawer. So they were free game.
The people that were on the trip when PR purchased the bloomies were (Same interview):
Q. The first trip, who was that trip
22 with?
23 A. The first trip was a
24 mother-daughter trip with my mother Nedra
25 Paugh, my sister Pam Paugh, friends Susan
1 Flanders from Charlevoix, Michigan, and her
2 daughter and a friend of Susan's, Ms.
3 Kirkpatrick I believe was her name, and her
4 daughter, and JonBenet and myself.
You would think, since PR had money and spent it lavishly to impress other people (on her home & JB pageants) she would not think twice about buying from the best. From experience, people who have a lot of money can also be very stingy w/their money. Also, PR was given money from JR for expenses. I would personally call that an allowance. While considering this we must remember that JB was made to wear BR hand me down’s. Also worth noting is the fact that everywhere you look in the crime scene photos are cloths laying on the floor in their home (w/the exception of BR bedroom). It was rather neat for someone w/scatolia issues. My point here is there were so many cloths laying around there needed to be a surplus to wear.
As far as the religious aspects of this case and from experience I would saw that it can be used as a crutch and not necessarily as a principle.
proust20,
Atlanta 200 BPD Interview, Mr. Levin asks Patsy:
...
Atlanta 200 BPD Interview, Mr. Levin asks Patsy who was that trip with?:
Atlanta 200 BPD Interview, Mr. Levin asks Patsy about 2nd trip?:
Atlanta 200 BPD Interview, Mr. Levin asks Patsy:
This is the really important fact, i.e. JonBenet chooses her underwear, just like she selects a GAP top on a shopping trip.
Atlanta 200 BPD Interview
Patsy just says she bought them as a gift for her niece to be mailed at a later date, could be in another interview she refers to them as a Christmas gift?
The FAO Schwarz deposit was likely on the December visit, i.e. JonBenet not present?
So the actual status of the size-12's appears unclear?
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proust20
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UKGuy
Thanks for clarifying that JB went with PR to NYC, and that there was a 2nd trip made without her. That JB could choose her own things indicates that PR was not insistent on total control.
Still, there is something illogical about this whole matter of the size 12s. Let me see if I understand. In NYC, JB herself picked out the days of the week undies, and PR then bought another set in a larger size. PR intended the extras as a gift to her niece; but, she never sent them out. Didn't PR say that she had decided to keep them as JB liked them so much, and that eventually she'd grow into them? So, she put them away. (This seems so odd to wait such a long time to fit into your underwear.) But meanwhile, JB had the size 6s, which she was wearing already? If so, then the reason for putting aside the size 12s is even sillier. I believe that the remaining six pairs of size 12 undies were never found. Or is that wrong? What about the size 6 Wednesday pair that one assumes that JB had on initially for Christmas? Was that found? LE had obviously located the original packaging which tellingly was see-through.
I can't see how the Rs can explain how an intruder would locate the size 12s, and then be careful enough to select the correct day of the week. For the trip to MI on the 26th, JB would have to have changed into the Thursday pair, as well as taking the other days with her. In the crime scene photos, I do not recall seeing any clothes laid out for the kids on the trip.
Very confusing. I hope that this post makes some sense.
Thanks for clarifying that JB went with PR to NYC, and that there was a 2nd trip made without her. That JB could choose her own things indicates that PR was not insistent on total control.
Still, there is something illogical about this whole matter of the size 12s. Let me see if I understand. In NYC, JB herself picked out the days of the week undies, and PR then bought another set in a larger size. PR intended the extras as a gift to her niece; but, she never sent them out. Didn't PR say that she had decided to keep them as JB liked them so much, and that eventually she'd grow into them? So, she put them away. (This seems so odd to wait such a long time to fit into your underwear.) But meanwhile, JB had the size 6s, which she was wearing already? If so, then the reason for putting aside the size 12s is even sillier. I believe that the remaining six pairs of size 12 undies were never found. Or is that wrong? What about the size 6 Wednesday pair that one assumes that JB had on initially for Christmas? Was that found? LE had obviously located the original packaging which tellingly was see-through.
I can't see how the Rs can explain how an intruder would locate the size 12s, and then be careful enough to select the correct day of the week. For the trip to MI on the 26th, JB would have to have changed into the Thursday pair, as well as taking the other days with her. In the crime scene photos, I do not recall seeing any clothes laid out for the kids on the trip.
Very confusing. I hope that this post makes some sense.
Rain on my Parade
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UKGuy,
Same interview. First she buys them for Jenny for Christmas and then she can’t remember. Same old song and dance for her.
PR states she purchases the bloomies from Bloomingdales on the first trip to NYC w/JB (for Jennie) in the same interview in which you and I both quoted.
Venom
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I don't think those size 6's that JB was wearing have ever shown up.
If I remember correctly, the R's "found" the package of size 12's years after the murder while they were going through stuff that was packed away from the Boulder house and they handed them over to law enforcement. Does anyone else have any knowledge of this?
And I agree, saving the size 12's to grow into is odd, especially when you have the same ones that fit now.
If I remember correctly, the R's "found" the package of size 12's years after the murder while they were going through stuff that was packed away from the Boulder house and they handed them over to law enforcement. Does anyone else have any knowledge of this?
And I agree, saving the size 12's to grow into is odd, especially when you have the same ones that fit now.
proust20,
Patsy never offered a definite reason why she put the size-12's into JonBenet's underwear drawer, i.e. where none were found by investigators.
The remaining five pairs were handed in by some third party years later. The R's said they turned up in a packing crate, duh. That's code for there is a hole in our story so we magicked up a set size-12's, maybe from ebay?
BPD have never released any details regarding Days Of The Week, or make of the underwear taken from JonBenet's underwear drawer other than to say none were size-12.
Which allows the thought: is there a size-6 pair of Wednesday Bloomingdale underwear missing from JonBenet's underwear drawer?
After all Patsy says JonBenet chose a set for herself, so is a pair missing?
Is this what the pair of size-12's was intending to cover up?
The kids clothes were in bags ready for the trip, its possible John had taken them to the plane on Christmas Day?
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Venom,
Its safe to assume Patsy invented the story about the size-12's, so her exact phrasing is redundant, its a bit like parsing the ransom note, why bother its fake.
i.e. If you hear some fake news on TV, e.g. disinfectant cure for the covid virus do you need to analyze it inside out?
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Rain on my Parade,
Sure, we know when and where she purchased the size-12's, but the unknown was what was the wrapping.
Were they left in Bloomingdale's wrapping or did Patsy re-wrap them?
That's if they ever left the location wherever Patsy put them on returning from NY.
Patsy's story about the size-12's is patently to cover up for whomever did redress JonBenet in them, so if we think they were in the basement, but Patsy had stored them elsewhere, this might make a difference?
For those that are unaware another theory that did the rounds on the size-12's was that Patsy purchased them to spice up her relationship with John which had turned negative.
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Rain on my Parade
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Why? We know they weren’t in JB drawer as she stated. So, they had to be somewhere other then JB’s bedroom.
Rain on my Parade
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Seriously? Why? How does that make sense?
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