What Is Your Theory?

[Ixchel13]

actually you are the one inserting facts not in evidence, like saying the nephew was drunk and got in someone else's car.
and why aren't the same number of guys drowning in the same circumstances and within a time period now? Are guys not getting drunk and drowning themselves at that rate anymore? What is the reasonable, simple answer to that?

Two miles is not a long walk, but why do you say it's easier to walk two miles when you're drunk? Again, your reply is exactly what the SFK want to hear.

They drug someone in the bar, when the guy starts acting weird, they notify the staff, guy gets kicked out on video, making the story plausible.

According to the map, victim would have to walk 2 miles down a very busy,
avenue peopled on both sides by bars and restaurants, etc to get to the lake he drowned in, but the lake was not just right there, he would have had to maneuver his way down boardwalk, etc.

So he's blacked out, but doesn't get stopped by cops as he stumbles 2 miles in an area that makes a good part of its revenue giving drunk college students $5000 PIs?


It's a nightly occurrence in these bars to kick out a rowdy person. They don't expect the person to go drown themselves. It hardly ever happens. These stories of drownings very seldom make the national news.

People didn't start making the connections until the families started communicating and crimes boards like WS started putting two and two, then ten and ten, then hundred to hundred together.

No big deal if we disagree, just so that you know you are also disagreeing with hundreds of other amateur sleuths; LE in several states, PIs in several states
and PI firms in several states. and at least 190 families of the victims, their employers, their coaches, friends and teachers. Just sayin

 

[Ixchel13]

years ago we used to do polls. but IDK how to do it, but we could ask a mod to set up a SFK poll.

The question could be, "Do you believe most of the drownings connected with the SFK case were murders?" yes no

 

[MeadowMuffin]

2 miles is an easy walk, even when drunk. No, I believe they simply drank too much and drowned. There is no evidence of a kidnapping, a fight, anything other than wandering off on foot while drunk. Logically the best answer that covers all the facts and doesn't require insertion of facts not in evidence.

I agree. I think these guys gravitate to water to pee, are stumbling, whatever, and in they go. Many experienced swimmers drown. To think there is a network of killers who can keep this a secret is a stretch of the imagination.

 

[RachelG45]

Just caught up on this thread and decided to do some online searching about SFK and came across a docu-series called Smiley Face Killers: The Hunt for Justice. Has anyone watched it?

 

[Ixchel13]

I agree. I think these guys gravitate to water to pee, are stumbling, whatever, and in they go. Many experienced swimmers drown. To think there is a network of killers who can keep this a secret is a stretch of the imagination.

You're blacked out drunk and you stumble all the way down almost a mile of steep wooded river bank to pee?

Never said there was a "network" of killers.

Instead, think of a very small handful, not even a handful, but these people move around frequently.

Yes, I agree with everyone who thinks it's far-fetched that a loosely knit secret society of killers is drowning young men.

This is what is insidious! Everything these killers did was to make it seem like something else. On one side, we have the people who say, hey drunk guys stumble into water and drown. On the other side, it seems as if a secret society is initiating members by having them drown someone. regardless of whether it's true or not, a lot of suspicious clues turned up.

But really, it could just be two or 3 people masterminding a
two sided frame up: victim blaming and conspiracy theorizing.
That's ^^^ what I think it is.

What I'm trying to say about a 2 sided frame up is, when the conspiracy theory gets so convoluted and seems unbelievable, then the obvious conclusion would start to seem more like they must have just stumbled in and drowned.

2 or 3 serial killers who travel for their jobs and we are not talking truckers here.
Think corporate, both secular and religious type of traveling.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

actually you are the one inserting facts not in evidence, like saying the nephew was drunk and got in someone else's car.
and why aren't the same number of guys drowning in the same circumstances and within a time period now? Are guys not getting drunk and drowning themselves at that rate anymore? What is the reasonable, simple answer to that?

Two miles is not a long walk, but why do you say it's easier to walk two miles when you're drunk? Again, your reply is exactly what the SFK want to hear.

They drug someone in the bar, when the guy starts acting weird, they notify the staff, guy gets kicked out on video, making the story plausible.

According to the map, victim would have to walk 2 miles down a very busy,
avenue peopled on both sides by bars and restaurants, etc to get to the lake he drowned in, but the lake was not just right there, he would have had to maneuver his way down boardwalk, etc.

So he's blacked out, but doesn't get stopped by cops as he stumbles 2 miles in an area that makes a good part of its revenue giving drunk college students $5000 PIs?


It's a nightly occurrence in these bars to kick out a rowdy person. They don't expect the person to go drown themselves. It hardly ever happens. These stories of drownings very seldom make the national news.

People didn't start making the connections until the families started communicating and crimes boards like WS started putting two and two, then ten and ten, then hundred to hundred together.

No big deal if we disagree, just so that you know you are also disagreeing with hundreds of other amateur sleuths; LE in several states, PIs in several states
and PI firms in several states. and at least 190 families of the victims, their employers, their coaches, friends and teachers. Just sayin

He left the bar and doesn't remember much afterwards, of course he was drunk. As for why it's not happening lately, it's because most bars have been shut down for the quarantine. That's why there are less auto deaths as well.

There is no SFK, and yes, people can walk miles while drunk. Not all drunks fall asleep in the corner or stay asleep in the corner. Two miles is an easy walk for a healthy person even while drunk.

People can be drunk and others not know it. I've had friends I've had a great fun night on the town and then find out that they don't remember much of it. They were in a blackout, and I didn't know.

It's not illegal to be drunk and if he's not driving or causing problems, he's not being arrested.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

this rich kid did not stumble towards the river, no.

To me, it sounds like he was trying to stumble into his car, didn't quite make it and vaguely remembers someone yanking him out.

Not to sound mean, but yours and others rationalization of these accounts bothers me.

Over 200 young, athletic men don't drown in normal ways so close together in a singular geographic location. give us a break!

So, someone was drowning these young men....

He was drunk, he gets into the wrong car and is thrown out. He then starts walking, goes to the river and falls in. Yes, athletic people drown when drunk, just like nonathletic people. There is no evidence of a serial killer that I can see. The CDC states that on average, around 10 people a day drown in the US. Those 200 people are just part of that statistic. Unintentional Drowning: Get the Facts | Home and Recreational Safety | CDC Injury Center.

 

[Ixchel13]

He left the bar and doesn't remember much afterwards, of course he was drunk. As for why it's not happening lately, it's because most bars have been shut down for the quarantine. That's why there are less auto deaths as well.

There is no SFK, and yes, people can walk miles while drunk. Not all drunks fall asleep in the corner or stay asleep in the corner. Two miles is an easy walk for a healthy person even while drunk.

People can be drunk and others not know it. I've had friends I've had a great fun night on the town and then find out that they don't remember much of it. They were in a blackout, and I didn't know.

It's not illegal to be drunk and if he's not driving or causing problems, he's not being arrested.

Seriously? It is illegal to be drunk and walking down the street, it's called Public Intoxication and college towns make a fortune from the tickets.

Anyway, it is what it is, lol.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Seriously? It is illegal to be drunk and walking down the street, it's called Public Intoxication and college towns make a fortune from the tickets.

Anyway, it is what it is, lol.

Yes, seriously, it's not a crime unless you are bothering other people. The police cannot give out breath tests or force people to take sobriety tests without probable cause. That would violate your rights under the Bill of Rights. Probable cause involves actions like screaming, tearing off their clothes, urinating in public, causing fights, etc. Do you know how many people get drunk? There are not enough police to arrest them all, LOL.

 

[Ixchel13]

Yes, seriously, it's not a crime unless you are bothering other people. The police cannot give out breath tests or force people to take sobriety tests without probable cause. That would violate your rights under the Bill of Rights. Probable cause involves actions like screaming, tearing off their clothes, urinating in public, causing fights, etc. Do you know how many people get drunk? There are not enough police to arrest them all, LOL.

glamourkitty, you have the right to be drunk on your own property but the minute you step off of it, it is public intoxication. You are just arbitrarily making up the reasons
such as urinating, etc. because yes, you can get a ticket for those things too. In Bloomington, you can get a ticket for walking down the street drunk, and if they want to give you a
test they will ask and you can refuse and be arrested. Please don't argue with this because a good friend was given a PI as he walked home, minding his own business, all alone and not bothering anyone. and no, I don't know how many people get drunk but I imagine a lot. LOL and P>S< there is nothing in the Bill of Rights about public intoxication. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does not include public intoxication which is governed by city, state, and federal laws.
Remember what we learned in first grade, personal freedom comes with personal responsibilities.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Sec. 340A.902 MN Statutes


340A.902 DRUNKENNESS NOT A CRIME.
No person may be charged with or convicted of the offense of drunkenness or public drunkenness. Nothing herein prevents the prosecution and conviction of an intoxicated person for offenses other than drunkenness or public drunkenness nor does this section relieve a person from civil liability for an injury to persons or property caused by the person while intoxicated.

History:
1985 c 305 art 11 s 2; 1987 c 152 art 1 s 1

 

[Ixchel13]

Sec. 340A.902 MN Statutes


340A.902 DRUNKENNESS NOT A CRIME.
No person may be charged with or convicted of the offense of drunkenness or public drunkenness. Nothing herein prevents the prosecution and conviction of an intoxicated person for offenses other than drunkenness or public drunkenness nor does this section relieve a person from civil liability for an injury to persons or property caused by the person while intoxicated.

History:
1985 c 305 art 11 s 2; 1987 c 152 art 1 s 1

It is a ticketed offense here. it just simply is. perhaps not federal as I stated, but definitely cities and states can decide.

As to the Bill of Rights, just as you just posted, you cannot be prosecuted in Minnesota simply for being drunk, but you are responsible for any adverse actions you generate while drunk.
Public Intoxication is not guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

This is why you see public parks banning alcohol as well as many, many other public events and organizations like Little League both ban drinking alcohol on premises and being drunk in the stands EVEN if you are not committing a crime!

If the Bill of Rights says public intoxication is our right, then how can these organizations ban it? Sure, I put kahlua in my Starbucks coffee and took it to my son's Lacrosse game, but had I been reported, they would have asked me to leave and I knew this fully well. just sayin

Indiana just passed a new law--here are the reasons you can be arrested for PI:

• The person has endangered his or her life;
• The person has endangered the life of another;
• The person has breached the peace; or
• The person has harassed, annoyed, or alarmed another person.

But you can get a misdemeanor ticket for less than that. Read between the lines here. especially the last one. Sounds like if I'm outside a bar arguing with someone I don't like, I could just make up a lie that they annoyed me and bingo!

here's what happened. My friend was walking home drunk. He was alone, and not even downtown anymore, and he stumbled but did not fall. Cop
zeroes in and gives him a PI ticket. This is what is called being a "danger to yourself!"

Laws may state what they state, but I live in Bloomington and they give PIs constantly. In fact, one of the reasons Lauren Spierer and her friends took that dark alley instead of the street was because they all had PIs.
One of the reasons JR gave Lauren the supposed sobriety test is so she wouldn't get a PI.

 

[Ixchel13]

PS. I love our LE not trying to disparage them.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

It is a ticketed offense here. it just simply is. perhaps not federal as I stated, but definitely cities and states can decide.

As to the Bill of Rights, just as you just posted, you cannot be prosecuted in Minnesota simply for being drunk, but you are responsible for any adverse actions you generate while drunk.
Public Intoxication is not guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

This is why you see public parks banning alcohol as well as many, many other public events and organizations like Little League both ban drinking alcohol on premises and being drunk in the stands EVEN if you are not committing a crime!

If the Bill of Rights says public intoxication is our right, then how can these organizations ban it? Sure, I put kahlua in my Starbucks coffee and took it to my son's Lacrosse game, but had I been reported, they would have asked me to leave and I knew this fully well. just sayin

Indiana just passed a new law--here are the reasons you can be arrested for PI:

• The person has endangered his or her life;
• The person has endangered the life of another;
• The person has breached the peace; or
• The person has harassed, annoyed, or alarmed another person.

But you can get a misdemeanor ticket for less than that. Read between the lines here. especially the last one. Sounds like if I'm outside a bar arguing with someone I don't like, I could just make up a lie that they annoyed me and bingo!

here's what happened. My friend was walking home drunk. He was alone, and not even downtown anymore, and he stumbled but did not fall. Cop
zeroes in and gives him a PI ticket. This is what is called being a "danger to yourself!"

Laws may state what they state, but I live in Bloomington and they give PIs constantly. In fact, one of the reasons Lauren Spierer and her friends took that dark alley instead of the street was because they all had PIs.
One of the reasons JR gave Lauren the supposed sobriety test is so she wouldn't get a PI.

You can ban alcohol anywhere you wish just like guns, and speech, and other rights. As long as the state has a good reason. That's why you can't talk in court rooms and carry guns in many bars. Lauren Spierer was avoiding being seen because she was only 20 years old, and the drinking age is 21. So, yes, she could be arrested for underage drinking even if she behaved well. But still, she can't be stopped without probable cause. If you complain about someone, there has to be proof. If there is someone who says YOU lied, then you will get the ticket (and lying to the police is a big one).

 

[glamourkitty1922]

actually you are the one inserting facts not in evidence, like saying the nephew was drunk and got in someone else's car.
and why aren't the same number of guys drowning in the same circumstances and within a time period now? Are guys not getting drunk and drowning themselves at that rate anymore? What is the reasonable, simple answer to that?

Two miles is not a long walk, but why do you say it's easier to walk two miles when you're drunk? Again, your reply is exactly what the SFK want to hear




No big deal if we disagree, just so that you know you are also disagreeing with hundreds of other amateur sleuths; LE in several states, PIs in several states
and PI firms in several states. and at least 190 families of the victims, their employers, their coaches, friends and teachers. Just sayin

I said that two miles is an easy walk for anyone, even a drunk person, if they are in good shape. There is no SFK to hear. Also, I go with common sense and let everyone else believe what they wish. So I really don't care that there are people who believe in a SFK. Any more than I care if someone believes in Santa Claus. Everyone has the right to their opinion as long as it doesn't cost tax dollars or endanger innocent people.

 

[Ixchel13]

You can ban alcohol anywhere you wish just like guns, and speech, and other rights. As long as the state has a good reason. That's why you can't talk in court rooms and carry guns in many bars. Lauren Spierer was avoiding being seen because she was only 20 years old, and the drinking age is 21. So, yes, she could be arrested for underage drinking even if she behaved well. But still, she can't be stopped without probable cause. If you complain about someone, there has to be proof. If there is someone who says YOU lied, then you will get the ticket (and lying to the police is a big one).

Obviously, you have never been in such a situation with the cops. They would actually like to give both parties the tickets if they can. Your remarks are totally true, in a perfect world with everyone following the rules, of course you would never get a ticket for something you didn't do, etc.

The cops in Bloomington get really tired of dealing with drunken kids and really will give a ticket on suspicion just on someone else's pointed finger. In a perfect world, i guess everyone would be given the time and patience to figure things out to see who's lying but mostly the person who gets the angriest gets arrested..

In our newspaper, under the arrests column, it is very, very common for the police to take in the woman as well as the man committing domestic abuse if she admits to hitting hubby first EVEN if he beats the stuffing out of her. or vice versa. Also in neighbor disputes, they love a double arrest. It's like they feel if you can't get along and keep wasting their time, then both of you need to be arrested, if possible.

As far as Lauren, her friends, and hundreds of other students, in the past up to yesterday, either over 21 or underaged, they used/use this alley, the very alley that Lauren was last seen emerging from, as a conduit from Smallwood all the way to 5N for the SPECIFIC reason of avoiding cops!

This alley would take them from Smallwood past Kilroys, then past Jake's, all the
way through 10th and College and 10th and V, and on up to JRs townhouses, 5N.

This is a known fact here in Bloomington. You can argue about how many were underaged , etc, til the cows come home. But use that alley to avoid getting PIs is exactly what they did/do. Many of them are also carrying drugs.

Living here for 30 years, I think I know our downtown, our police force and the way they operate, better than you. Rules are not always followed. That being said, I respect our LE and understand the frustration they go through with these drunken, blacked out students running out into the late night streets as the perfect victim for any ne'er do well stalking them. Believe me, this is still going on even in the pandemic.

 

[Ixchel13]

I said that two miles is an easy walk for anyone, even a drunk person, if they are in good shape. There is no SFK to hear. Also, I go with common sense and let everyone else believe what they wish. So I really don't care that there are people who believe in a SFK. Any more than I care if someone believes in Santa Claus. Everyone has the right to their opinion as long as it doesn't cost tax dollars or endanger innocent people.

wait a minute! are you saying there's no Santa Claus?

 

[glamourkitty1922]

wait a minute! are you saying there's no Santa Claus?

Oh, I would never say that!!!!!! LOL

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Obviously, you have never been in such a situation with the cops. They would actually like to give both parties the tickets if they can. Your remarks are totally true, in a perfect world with everyone following the rules, of course you would never get a ticket for something you didn't do, etc.

The cops in Bloomington get really tired of dealing with drunken kids and really will give a ticket on suspicion just on someone else's pointed finger. In a perfect world, i guess everyone would be given the time and patience to figure things out to see who's lying but mostly the person who gets the angriest gets arrested..

In our newspaper, under the arrests column, it is very, very common for the police to take in the woman as well as the man committing domestic abuse if she admits to hitting hubby first EVEN if he beats the stuffing out of her. or vice versa. Also in neighbor disputes, they love a double arrest. It's like they feel if you can't get along and keep wasting their time, then both of you need to be arrested, if possible.

As far as Lauren, her friends, and hundreds of other students, in the past up to yesterday, either over 21 or underaged, they used/use this alley, the very alley that Lauren was last seen emerging from, as a conduit from Smallwood all the way to 5N for the SPECIFIC reason of avoiding cops!

This alley would take them from Smallwood past Kilroys, then past Jake's, all the
way through 10th and College and 10th and V, and on up to JRs townhouses, 5N.

This is a known fact here in Bloomington. You can argue about how many were underaged , etc, til the cows come home. But use that alley to avoid getting PIs is exactly what they did/do. Many of them are also carrying drugs.

Living here for 30 years, I think I know our downtown, our police force and the way they operate, better than you. Rules are not always followed. That being said, I respect our LE and understand the frustration they go through with these drunken, blacked out students running out into the late night streets as the perfect victim for any ne'er do well stalking them. Believe me, this is still going on even in the pandemic.

If you read my post, you would find that I said Lauren was avoiding the police because she was underage, and anyone carrying drugs would be avoiding the police as well. No, the police don't go around giving out tickets without probable cause because it's unconstitutional, and a college town is filled with well off children whose parents would legally sue if the police did violate one's constitutional rights by arresting without probable cause. Please post links if there is evidence of such misdoings by the police.

 

[Ixchel13]

If you read my post, you would find that I said Lauren was avoiding the police because she was underage, and anyone carrying drugs would be avoiding the police as well. No, the police don't go around giving out tickets without probable cause because it's unconstitutional, and a college town is filled with well off children whose parents would legally sue if the police did violate one's constitutional rights by arresting without probable cause. Please post links if there is evidence of such misdoings by the police.

I know people who have received these citations, and I'm not going to peruse through thousands of PI citations trying to find a student who says they were given a ticket unfairly. You do realize that these are usually not arrests but tickets, right?

so...anyway, as far as I'm concerned, this discussion is over.
I think it's definitely run its course.