Found Deceased KS - Marilane Carter, 36, Overland Park, enroute to Birmingham, 2 Aug 2020 #2

[allyoucantleavebehind]

How on earth anyone could let her, or anyone in her described state, drive off alone into the night is beyond me. What was she running or trying to hide from?

I don't think things were that great at home when she left? But that's MOO. Completely MOO. But I'm not sure it's okay to discuss that in forum given that the COD has been clearly indicated as suicide?

 

[Ksprincess2]

I could tell you 2 other stories that are so similar. An interesting point about suicide is that sometimes before the person takes their life, they appear "better". The cloak of darkness has lifted and family members think they've turned a corner when, in reality, things have gotten worse. That period of euphoria is a dangerous time. The person now has a plan and they are happy. They have decided, and the weight has been lifted. They have direction and they know that the pain is going to cease.

That's why, so many times, you hear the family say they are shocked since everything seemed to be going in a new direction. He/she was getting better.

The sad part is, it was going in a new direction. We just never realize what direction it's going until it's too late. It's not our fault. It's just what happens sometimes.

A former coworker of mine committed suicide in December a week before Christmas. She was an amazing nurse practioner and Mom of 2 young boys. She and her husband had taken her kids to Disney World the week before, she had presents wrapped under her tree for her family and asked her husband to drop their kids off at school, by the time he came back she had shot herself. Absolutely shocked and devastated everyone who knew her! You just never know what someone is thinking although in Marilane's case it sounds like it was more obvious she was struggling.

 

[ReckoningDay]

We just never know what someone is going through, inside their head. And too often it is easy to blame those left behind, and suggest that maybe the spouse was to blame. Often times, the issue is brought into a marriage, already a full-blown problem, and nothing a spouse could do or say would stop it.

 

[Snowflake_Sue]

I don't think things were that great at home when she left? But that's MOO. Completely MOO. But I'm not sure it's okay to discuss that in forum given that the COD has been clearly indicated as suicide?

You're completely correct in pulling me up there. The question is for a Coroner's Inquiry to ask and answer. If her death had occurred in Australia, be assured there would be a separate Coroner (than the one who conducted the autopsy) looking at any systemic failures or social factors that led up to, or contributed to her suicide. I trust the same applies stateside and particularly in this case.

 

[allyoucantleavebehind]

You're completely correct in pulling me up there. The question is for a Coroner to ask and answer. If her death had occurred in Australia, be assured there would be a coroner looking at any systemic failures or social factors that led up to, or contributed to her suicide. I trust the same applies stateside.

@Snowflake_Sue I didn't mean to pull you up. I didn't realize the Coroner had such that large a scope in their analysis. But it makes sense that they would--in so many ways, death is a result of multiple factors. I'm not knowledgeable enough about how that happens in a coroner's report here.

 

[Snowflake_Sue]

@Snowflake_Sue I didn't mean to pull you up. I didn't realize the Coroner had such that large a scope in their analysis. But it makes sense that they would--in so many ways, death is a result of multiple factors. I'm not knowledgeable enough about how that happens in a coroner's report here.

all good - but it got me wondering though, does the USA conduct Coroner's Inquiries in cases such as this?? I'm at a disadvantage somewhat because our (Aus) Laws and Legal system is different to the USA.

 

[Seattle1]

@Snowflake_Sue I didn't mean to pull you up. I didn't realize the Coroner had such that large a scope in their analysis. But it makes sense that they would--in so many ways, death is a result of multiple factors. I'm not knowledgeable enough about how that happens in a coroner's report here.

all good - but it got me wondering though, does the USA conduct Coroner's Inquiries in cases such as this?? I'm at a disadvantage somewhat because our (Aus) Laws and Legal system is different to the USA.

I'm jumping in mid-conversation and apologize if disrupting but I am able to contribute that in the US, the Coroner or Medical Examiner is mostly responsible for determining both the manner and cause of death.

In criminal investigations, it's not unusual for the ME to provide only a preliminary cause of death because they do not have the full autopsy report, and also waiting for the toxicology test results, which typically take about 6 weeks. It's deemed good police work when the ME is not rushed to issue an official report until all the information is in.

That said, I'm always disappointed when I see a suspected suicide rushed to get declared a suicide and cause of death announced (such as asphyxiation by carbon monoxide) almost overnight.

I personally don't think the individual whose manner of death is being called a suicide deserves less courtesy than a crime victim that is given the dignity of waiting for the full, official findings from the lab reports and autopsy.

I think MC exhibited very bizarre behavior leading up to her death and unless this behavior was seen by her before, why would you not want to know all the answers before accepting her death as written-- especially by a person unknown to her.

The last news I read about then missing MC was by her mother-- citing that her daughter was complaining of being sleep-deprived, traveling to Birmingham to be with her sister at childbirth, made the drive from Kansas to Birmingham numerous times before, and that MC also planned to seek treatment for her sleep issues at a clinic familiar to her in Birmingham (where she once served as Chaplain).

Admittedly, I stopped reading on the date the news was citing that MC's husband claimed MC was having mental issues but did not want to seek treatment where she lived.

I took his word because I expected, as her husband, he likely had the most knowledge about MC's well being. However, as days came and passed, it did not follow that MC was never reported as missing and endangered if she was truly experiencing life-threatening mental issues.

I'm sorry for her family and friends and anybody that's grieving this lovely woman. I also encourage them to wait and/or follow-up on her full test results.
Hopefully, they'll find some answers that alluded MC.

MOO

 

[evilwise]

all good - but it got me wondering though, does the USA conduct Coroner's Inquiries in cases such as this?? I'm at a disadvantage somewhat because our (Aus) Laws and Legal system is different to the USA.

If you aren't already surprised by how quickly this case was determined to be a suicide you will be by how nothing more comes of it now.

 

[zelmajane]

Does anybody know how they determine carbon monoxide poisoning without the toxicology report? I’ve known people that it took six months to get a tox screen back.

 

[allyoucantleavebehind]

all good - but it got me wondering though, does the USA conduct Coroner's Inquiries in cases such as this?? I'm at a disadvantage somewhat because our (Aus) Laws and Legal system is different to the USA.

Yes. It sounds like coroner here determines everything but it isn’t clear to me that this determination includes social factors or systemic ones as you mentioned for Aus. For example, including systemic racism or environmental trauma would be a career killer for a US coroner MOO. It’s pretty clinical bare bones here I think and it probably varies by state?

 

[allyoucantleavebehind]

I'm jumping in mid-conversation and apologize if disrupting but I am able to contribute that in the US, the Coroner or Medical Examiner is mostly responsible for determining both the manner and cause of death.

In criminal investigations, it's not unusual for the ME to provide only a preliminary cause of death because they do not have the full autopsy report, and also waiting for the toxicology test results, which typically take about 6 weeks. It's deemed good police work when the ME is not rushed to issue an official report until all the information is in.

That said, I'm always disappointed when I see a suspected suicide rushed to get declared a suicide and cause of death announced (such as asphyxiation by carbon monoxide) almost overnight.

I personally don't think the individual whose manner of death is being called a suicide deserves less courtesy than a crime victim that is given the dignity of waiting for the full, official findings from the lab reports and autopsy.

I think MC exhibited very bizarre behavior leading up to her death and unless this behavior was seen by her before, why would you not want to know all the answers before accepting her death as written-- especially by a person unknown to her.

The last news I read about then missing MC was by her mother-- citing that her daughter was complaining of being sleep-deprived, traveling to Birmingham to be with her sister at childbirth, made the drive from Kansas to Birmingham numerous times before, and that MC also planned to seek treatment for her sleep issues at a clinic familiar to her in Birmingham (where she once served as Chaplain).

Admittedly, I stopped reading on the date the news was citing that MC's husband claimed MC was having mental issues but did not want to seek treatment where she lived.

I took his word because I expected, as her husband, he likely had the most knowledge about MC's well being. However, as days came and passed, it did not follow that MC was never reported as missing and endangered if she was truly experiencing life-threatening mental issues.

I'm sorry for her family and friends and anybody that's grieving this lovely woman. I also encourage them to wait and/or follow-up on her full test results.
Hopefully, they'll find some answers that alluded MC.

MOO

she graduated from Samford, a private Baptist college in Birmingham. It has ties to several local hospitals including St. Vincent’s.

 

[NoSI]

So I wanted to share one more thought on suicide… It is very difficult to accept that anyone may attempt and even complete suicide.

We hear a lot about the so-called stress diathesis model. The stress diathesis model is a “multi-hit” model and stresses that there has to be more than one trigger to commit suicide. There is a baseline risk like depression or other mental illness interacting with usually some other event (loss that provokes desperation etc.) and some fundamental genetic vulnerability to lead to suicide.

We really don’t know much about Marilane’s life and the struggles she faced, but it looks like there was much stress and much change. I just thought mentioning the stress diathesis model would give another way to think about/conceptualize what may have happened in this tragic case.

MOO.

RIP beautiful Marilane!

 

[Snowflake_Sue]

If you aren't already surprised by how quickly this case was determined to be a suicide you will be by how nothing more comes of it now.

Yes. It sounds like coroner here determines everything but it isn’t clear to me that this determination includes social factors or systemic ones as you mentioned for Aus. For example, including systemic racism or environmental trauma would be a career killer for a US coroner MOO. It’s pretty clinical bare bones here I think and it probably varies by state?

In Queensland - all suicides involve an Inquest in the Coroners Court (in addition to the autopsy). "The findings may include comments or recommendations made by the coroner relating to public health and safety, the administration of justice or ways to prevent similar deaths"

 

[VanillaSky1970]

I am heartbroken about Marilane's case. For her, for her kids, for her parents.

What she may have gone through, and what has been discussed here has really struck a nerve with me. At one point, I, like many, thought about killing myself (it's okay to admit that). And when I did, I didn't want to hurt anyone or have them "clean up". Marilane may have felt the same?

I am better.

But still, what happened with Marilane will haunt me for a bit. And I do not buy the official story.

My $0.02.

 

[Buttonspoons]

Does anybody know how they determine carbon monoxide poisoning without the toxicology report? I’ve known people that it took six months to get a tox screen back.

I believe if you have died from carbon monoxide poisoning the persons body turns a ‘cherry pink’ colour which I guess is quite A noticeable difference.

 

[NoSI]

Regarding suicidal ideation, suicide attempts, and completed suicide...

Most people with suicidal ideation do not complete suicide. There is approximately a 5.6% incidence of suicidal ideation, a 0.7% incidence of suicide attempts, and 0.01% will complete suicide in a given year. For every completed suicide, ~18-25 attempts are made.

Completing suicide is actually not that easy... I don't know how else to say it; realize it doesn't sound right. Working on a hospital psychiatric consultation team, we see a lot of "failed" suicide attempts; most often with overdose. Those that use more lethal methods, such as hanging or using a gun, complete more often, but we also see them here as survivors that are often significantly disabled for the rest of their lives.

I am still trying to understand exactly how Marilane did what she did... I just can't quite wrap my mind around it. Suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning is not easy as I understand it. For example, there tend to be not enough emissions as cars nowadays emit much lower levels of carbon monoxide than in the past (90s etc.). However, Fotis Dulos completed as well in that manner.

I don't think that we will be getting much, if any, additional information/answers. I do believe that it was suicide, but questions remain and will always remain, I fear.

MOO.

Source: Academy of Consult Liaison Psychiatry

 

[Denniece]

I believe if you have died from carbon monoxide poisoning the persons body turns a ‘cherry pink’ colour which I guess is quite A noticeable difference.

I was wondering this myself because how would they know so soon that she didn't take an overdose or die of natural causes? Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Denniece]

Regarding suicidal ideation, suicide attempts, and completed suicide...

Most people with suicidal ideation do not complete suicide. There is approximately a 5.6% incidence of suicidal ideation, a 0.7% incidence of suicide attempts, and 0.01% will complete suicide in a given year. For every completed suicide, ~18-25 attempts are made.

Completing suicide is actually not that easy... I don't know how else to say it; realize it doesn't sound right. Working on a hospital psychiatric consultation team, we see a lot of "failed" suicide attempts; most often with overdose. Those that use more lethal methods, such as hanging or using a gun, complete more often, but we also see them here as survivors that are often significantly disabled for the rest of their lives.

I am still trying to understand exactly how Marilane did what she did... I just can't quite wrap my mind around it. Suicide by carbon monoxide poisoning is not easy as I understand it. For example, there tend to be not enough emissions as cars nowadays emit much lower levels of carbon monoxide than in the past (90s etc.). However, Fotis Dulos completed as well in that manner.

I don't think that we will be getting much, if any, additional information/answers. I do believe that it was suicide, but questions remain and will always remain, I fear.

MOO.

Source: Academy of Consult Liaison Psychiatry

My cousin committed suicide in this manner. I don't know if it was easy or not but he definitely succeeded. He just turned on his truck inside his double garage and sat inside the cab. If the doors were shut even somewhat with her backing in it would quickly fill the container. IMO

 

[Seattle1]

I am heartbroken about Marilane's case. For her, for her kids, for her parents.

What she may have gone through, and what has been discussed here has really struck a nerve with me. At one point, I, like many, thought about killing myself (it's okay to admit that). And when I did, I didn't want to hurt anyone or have them "clean up". Marilane may have felt the same?

I am better.

But still, what happened with Marilane will haunt me for a bit. And I do not buy the official story.

My $0.02.

Thanks or your post. I do think more people think about suicide than will actually admit.

I thought about suicide often during my first year at University. I'd never been away from home and I went all out -- chose a different country! I mostly thought about suicide when I was exhausted and anxious-- wondering if I'd have enough energy to continue the class, study, cram, exam, anxiety, for multiple more years to follow. Decades later I finally learned many students had similar thoughts.

I first learned about Marilane when I read a news report citing her mother and I thought the message was positive and hopeful and I remember thinking I hope MC hears this where ever she is as it would remind her of her purpose when she left home (i.e., family, sister's newborn, familiar clinic) -- before she was sidetracked.

The following day I checked the news for any progress and I saw her husband on the news station and I hoped MC would not see it. Let me be clear, I'm not promoting hiding mental illness or being dishonest about difficult times (especially if there's national search effort in progress) but I found the Pastor's words raw and insensitive. There are times when others should speak for you and in my opinion, this was one of those times. I realize now that MC was long gone by the time both her mother and husband's reports hit the news.

I'll don't expect any more from the media. I wish this was Florida -- I could have already requested the ME/toxicology reports. I'm shocked at how very expedient the Florida ME's are with delivery!

Good mental health, everyone.

 

[jeni25]

A memorial service will be held for Marilane Carter:

Thursday August 27 at 6pm central time
Leawood Baptist Church
Leawood, KS

Only immediate family & Leawood Baptist Church members will be able to attend in person.
Mask required

The service will be live streamed for those not able to attend.

Leawood Baptist Church | Live Stream