UK - Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies, 2018

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mtnlites said:
STILL no update on this? I am starting to think that this woman may not have maliciously done anything at all. I would wager that she's basically had no life since July. If she's guilty then that's fine. If not, that's terrible.
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I would suggest such a matter is so incredibly serious and sensitive as to have warranted a blanket and indefinite no press, no commentary order at the highest levels of government. This is deduced from the complete and total disappearance of media on this matter post-July. There are four plausible scenarios: 1/ case heard, sentence occurred in secret - total cover up for many reasons; 2/ insufficient evidence; 3/ building of case; 4/ mistake.
 
mrazda71 said:
Nurse re-arrested on suspicion of murdering eight babies

Nurse is re-arrested by police over baby babies at Cheshire hospital | Daily Mail Online
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Lucy Letby was arrested last July by detectives examining deaths of infants at the Countess of Chester Hospital between 2015 and 2016.

She was originally questioned over the alleged murders of eight babies and the attempted murders of six others.

Police say they are now examining the alleged attempted murders of three other newborns at the hospital's neo-natal unit, taking the total number of potential victims to 17.

The probe has since widened and police are currently investigating the deaths of 17 babies and 16 non-fatal collapses between March 2015 and July 2016.

BBM



IMHO LE should include 'suspicious deaths' or even 'all deaths' from the time before she worked there.
 
gregjrichards said:
It is absolutely chilling to think a woman like this was working in the hospital with young babies. It makes you wonder if there are other people like her so far working and killing undetected both with children and the elderly.

My heart breaks for the babies families who she killed.
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Sofar she is a suspect, and nothing has been confirmed, so you may want to add "alleged" to your observations.


I for one have my doubts, starting from page 1 of this thread:

dotr said:
Murder arrest over hospital baby deaths
Officers have been investigating the deaths of 17 newborns at the neonatal unit between March 2015 and July 2016.

A spokesman said the probe also covered 15 "non-fatal collapses".
hey found the Countess of Chester Hospital NHS Foundation Trust had a neonatal death rate of 1.91 for every 1,000 live births that year.

This was the highest out of the 43 trusts of a similar size it was compared with, which had an average of 1.27 neonatal deaths for every 1,000 live births.

There were also 5.42 extended perinatal deaths - deaths within four weeks - for every 1,000 births, including stillbirths. The average for similar sized maternity units was 4.73 deaths per 1,000 births."
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BBM


The so-called average is the sum of all scores divided by the number of scores, and therefore it will always include the extremes on both ends.
That is a simple matter of math and no indication per se of murder.

I have followed the case of the Dutch nurse Lucia de Berk who was convicted on the basis of statistics that were modelled to achieve that conviction. She was only freed after it was proven that these statistics were no more than lot of hokey pokey.

Recently, in another case, the prosecution tried again to involve the statisticians in the case. Fortunately the Court declined the application.

Recovered/Located - Netherlands - Jos Brech, 55, wanted for murder, Vosges (Fr) winter 2018
 
ZaZara said:
Sofar she is a suspect, and nothing has been confirmed, so you may want to add "alleged" to your observations.


I for one have my doubts, starting from page 1 of this thread:




BBM


The so-called average is the sum of all scores divided by the number of scores, and therefore it will always include the extremes on both ends.
That is a simple matter of math and no indication per se of murder.

I have followed the case of the Dutch nurse Lucia de Berk who was convicted on the basis of statistics that were modelled to achieve that conviction. She was only freed after it was proven that these statistics were no more than lot of hokey pokey.

Recently, in another case, the prosecution tried again to involve the statisticians in the case. Fortunately the Court declined the application.

Recovered/Located - Netherlands - Jos Brech, 55, wanted for murder, Vosges (Fr) winter 2018
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Also had some doubt about the case, page 1.
URL="UK: Female Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies"]UK: Female Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies[/URL]
 
Police did not "leak" any names to the press. Neighbours told local press as her home was being searched. Police have to be able to investigate, they have to be able to arrest and question as they see fit. If the press choose to release this information and members of the public choose to form an opinion based on that, then that is on them not the police who are doing their job. The publication of the nurse's name has resulted in further information coming to light and the investigation being widened. 17 babies have suffered unexplained fatal collapses, the priority is to find out what happened to them and provide grieving families with answers.

This case is very very close to me, i gave birth in that hospital...there is a lot I could say but I can't and won't at this time. For now, my sympathy is with the babies who should have gone home but didn't.
 
DaveShu said:
The Police interviewed her for what - 2 or 3 days?

They had all of the time in the world to gather all of their evidence before, they've had all of the time to go through her house, her parents house, even the neighbours house now apparently.

And yet they've released her without charge, which means there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, they are basing it all on statistics and the assumtion that this slight increase in deaths is not a natural anomaly - read the articles posted by Supernovae.

If there was any "inside information" she would have been charged, not released.
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Hi
Just because someone is released on bail doesn’t mean that the police have no evidence
Irrespective of this case, in any case where someone is bailed, it’s to allow the Police more time to investigate anything she may have put forward in her interviews because as you say , innocent until proven guilty so the onus is on the Police and prosecution not the detainee and it’s only fair that the suspects account is fact checked too and there may be forensic evidence to be submitted so rather than keep her in detention and use up the custody clock, they utilise the bail system.
 
Angleterre said:
Hi
Just because someone is released on bail doesn’t mean that the police have no evidence
Irrespective of this case, in any case where someone is bailed, it’s to allow the Police more time to investigate anything she may have put forward in her interviews because as you say , innocent until proven guilty so the onus is on the Police and prosecution not the detainee and it’s only fair that the suspects account is fact checked too and there may be forensic evidence to be submitted so rather than keep her in detention and use up the custody clock, they utilise the bail system.
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I cannot believe it has been over a year since Lucy Letby was re-arrested and assuming bailed as there isn't any indication. What is so strange is the fact that due to the severity of the crimes, there isn't any information in the press or elsewhere after June 2019. It's my understanding that under the Policing and Crime Act 2017, a person who is placed on bail can only be placed for 28 days and then a decision has to be made after that. I recently contacted Cheshire Constabulary in regards of a FOI (freedom of information) regarding Lucy.

What I do find rather peculiar is the fact that the Chief Executive of the hospital resigned. I shall update whether or not the police release any information.
 
BGoodwin94 said:
I cannot believe it has been over a year since Lucy Letby was re-arrested and assuming bailed as there isn't any indication. What is so strange is the fact that due to the severity of the crimes, there isn't any information in the press or elsewhere after June 2019. It's my understanding that under the Policing and Crime Act 2017, a person who is placed on bail can only be placed for 28 days and then a decision has to be made after that. I recently contacted Cheshire Constabulary in regards of a FOI (freedom of information) regarding Lucy.

What I do find rather peculiar is the fact that the Chief Executive of the hospital resigned. I shall update whether or not the police release any information.
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I was only thinking about Lucy recently because my nearest maternity unit was in the local news for its failings and baby deaths.

This has been going on for so long!
 
Hi guys, back in June\July I contacted the Cheshire constabulary to request a freedom of information. The outcome, which I thought would happen isn't positive. Please see below; (the response I had)

In accordance with section 1(1) (b) of the Act, our response is as follows:


Cheshire Constabulary neither confirms nor denies that it holds information relevant to this request by virtue of the following exemption:


• Section 40(5)(a) – Personal Information

We are not obliged to confirm or deny whether we hold the information you have requested as if held, this would be personal data. Section 40(5) of the Act provides that there is no duty to confirm or deny whether we hold the information.

The fact section 40(5) of the Act has been cited, should not be taken as an indication that the information you requested is or is not held. The terms of this exemption in the Freedom of Information Act mean that we do not have to consider whether or not it would be in the public interest for us to reveal whether or not the information is held.


If you are not satisfied with the decision applied in this case I enclose for your attention a copy of the Constabulary's appeal procedures.

Regards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lucy Letby was only arrested on suspicion, I've even gone through court proceedings and haven't found anything. So, Letby has must been released and the police are looking at other suspects.
 
BGoodwin94 said:
I cannot believe it has been over a year since Lucy Letby was re-arrested and assuming bailed as there isn't any indication. What is so strange is the fact that due to the severity of the crimes, there isn't any information in the press or elsewhere after June 2019. It's my understanding that under the Policing and Crime Act 2017, a person who is placed on bail can only be placed for 28 days and then a decision has to be made after that. I recently contacted Cheshire Constabulary in regards of a FOI (freedom of information) regarding Lucy.

What I do find rather peculiar is the fact that the Chief Executive of the hospital resigned. I shall update whether or not the police release any information.
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Regards Bail
It’s often the case that the bail is extended for a further 28 days each time it comes up for review , however, that was back in 2010 when I was still serving. My enquires to date with serving officers is that they often no longer bail anybody and just release without charge and then continue with their investigation and Re arrest if and when new evidence comes to light as per PACE . Apparently , due to funding and volume , there’s a huge backlog in terms of DNA and fingerprint analysis and investigations of computer systems and their hard drives and mobile phone evidence recovery etc and so it’s become necessary to release without charge rather than to abuse the 28
day bail system and to arrest the suspect only if new evidence comes to light as a result of those investigations
 
BGoodwin94 said:
I cannot believe it has been over a year since Lucy Letby was re-arrested and assuming bailed as there isn't any indication. What is so strange is the fact that due to the severity of the crimes, there isn't any information in the press or elsewhere after June 2019. It's my understanding that under the Policing and Crime Act 2017, a person who is placed on bail can only be placed for 28 days and then a decision has to be made after that. I recently contacted Cheshire Constabulary in regards of a FOI (freedom of information) regarding Lucy.

What I do find rather peculiar is the fact that the Chief Executive of the hospital resigned. I shall update whether or not the police release any information.
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I think what needs to be kept in perspective is that effectively the police are investigating 17 allegations of murder / attempted murder etc and one of these investigations can be many months long into year (s) so multiply that by 17 and then you get an idea of the work involved and the timeframe And it has to be done meticulously to afford the victims and their families the best possible service and attempt to obtain justice and also so that the accused ( Letby) is given the best possible service to ensure that she is not being investigated unnecessarily and she is innocent until the Prosecution and police find any evidence to the contrary and prove her guilty ( and not wrongly so, therefore it needs to be done meticulously )!
 
BGoodwin94 said:
Hi guys, back in June\July I contacted the Cheshire constabulary to request a freedom of information. The outcome, which I thought would happen isn't positive. Please see below; (the response I had)

In accordance with section 1(1) (b) of the Act, our response is as follows:


Cheshire Constabulary neither confirms nor denies that it holds information relevant to this request by virtue of the following exemption:


• Section 40(5)(a) – Personal Information

We are not obliged to confirm or deny whether we hold the information you have requested as if held, this would be personal data. Section 40(5) of the Act provides that there is no duty to confirm or deny whether we hold the information.

The fact section 40(5) of the Act has been cited, should not be taken as an indication that the information you requested is or is not held. The terms of this exemption in the Freedom of Information Act mean that we do not have to consider whether or not it would be in the public interest for us to reveal whether or not the information is held.


If you are not satisfied with the decision applied in this case I enclose for your attention a copy of the Constabulary's appeal procedures.

Regards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lucy Letby was only arrested on suspicion, I've even gone through court proceedings and haven't found anything. So, Letby has must been released and the police are looking at other suspects.
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I can understand why they can't release that information but thank you for trying.

I'm from this area, I had my son in the same hospital. I know a couple of people connected but I wouldn't ask them anything, it's heartbreaking though - the families need closure.
 
pickle26 said:
Lucy Letby - accused baby killer
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I can vouch for the fact this hospital is diabolical having given birth there myself, however to arrest her 3 times and for the number of victims to increase each time she is arrested there must be evidence that this is more than just mismanagement ofna neonatal unit. We will have to see what information comes out if she is ever charged.
 
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