Found Deceased OH - Braylen Noble, 3, non-verbal, Toledo, 4 Sept 2020

[crush]

Can anyone think of a different case where it seemed the body could have been relocated during the initial search-period / investigation to a location within the search zone, where it would be easy to to be caught doing the relocating and to a place where the victim would definitely eventually be found?

It's so brazen. And I wonder, IF it happened, if it's unprecedented. Not that it matters; anything humanly possible is possible. It's just so daring; it doesn't fit with what would be such a cowardly crime initially.

Well, cadaver dogs alerted on area under playhouse behind the Anthony's home, but Caylee wasn't there.
They alerted on trunk of car, no Caylee.
Her remains turned up months later in a rain filled stand of trees only a quarter mile from her home.
Paula Sims killed one baby at home, and it was wrapped in a trash can bag and hidden in her parents freezer while cops searched her house. The infants body was later retreived and thrown in a public waste container.

I don't personally think it's daring as much as a panicked killer hiding body fast in unlikely place, and moving to "better" location when there's more time to plan. IMHOO!

 

[Dylansmom08]

@LucyRocket @KAE thanks for the map views that really helps put things in prespective. Seeing now that they actually took the mother into custody I think LE knows more than they are releasing as they always do. I thought they had just escorted her off the property because of all the people gathering outside her apartment but apparently they found enough reason to arrest her we just don't know what for at this point.

 

[al66pine]

'Dry Drowning' Water in Lungs?

I thought drowning could be ruled in or out by water in the lungs. Why are they stating it is not ruled out? That seems kind of weird to me. Moo

@MissUnderstood In following a case on W/S yrs ago, I read for the first time about dry drowning. Just gen. fyi, which may or may not apply to poor little Braylen. RIP.

"...in the initial phase of drowning, water generally enters the stomach and very little water enters the lungs. Though laryngospasm prevents water from entering the lungs, it also interferes with breathing. In most persons, the laryngospasm relaxes some time after unconsciousness and water can then enter the lungs causing a "wet drowning". However, about 7–10% of people maintain this seal until cardiac arrest.[24] This has been called "dry drowning", as no water enters the lungs. In forensic pathology, water in the lungs indicates that the person was still alive at the point of submersion. Absence of water in the lungs may be either a dry drowning or indicates a death before submersion.[29..."
"Forensics
"Forensic diagnosis of drowning is considered one of the most difficult in forensic medicine. External examination and autopsy findings are often non-specific, and the available laboratory tests are often inconclusive or controversial. The purpose of investigation is generally to distinguish whether the death was due to immersion, or whether the body was immersed post mortem. The mechanism in acute drowning is hypoxemia and irreversible cerebral anoxia due to submersion in liquid...."bbm

Drowning - Wikipedia
I've also seen articles citing higher percentages (20% ?)of dry drowning, but not finding them w a quickie search.
More at link. (Sorry if already discussed. I'm reading back-azz-wards again.)

 

[crush]

Here's something I didn't know:

According to CBC report, cadaver dogs are trained to smell dead remains, human remains, as deep as 30 meters of water.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/cadaver-dogs-science-training-1.3654993

Seems that since sniffer and cadaver dogs were photographed poolside as LE searched, it's even more unlikely Braylens body was in pool before last day.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

@crush Right but with both cases you mention, a victim was possibly moved to a "better" hiding place, not to one where the victim would definitely be found.

 

[crush]

@crush Right but with both cases you mention, a victim was possibly moved to a "better" hiding place, not to one where the victim would definitely be found.

Ah, you want one found by design.
A number of these have happened for the same reason: to collect insurance money. One put his head-bludgeoned wife in van, then he put heavy phone book on gas pedal and turned it to edge of cliff and started it. He got out, it wouldn't matter if the door was open it would all be wrecked. Almost got away with it.
But we're getting off topic and that's a no-no.
We're here for Braylen.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

But we're getting off topic and that's a no-no.
We're here for Braylen

Quote RSBM.

I guess I'm thinking two things.
1) It didn't actually happen to Braylen because virtually no one would take that risk. That leaves what as the most likely scenario? He was not relocated recently, he was missed by human (and search dog) error somehow?
2) What kind of person would move him to the pool days later? The main perpetrator? A co-conspiritor who really never wanted to be involved in the initial scenario but felt pressured to be at the time?

But I don't know that there are any past cases similar enough anyway. I am overanalyzing.

 

[crush]

Don’t know if this was posted https://twitter.com/carla_bayron/status/1304423947384041478?s=21


NEW: @FBICleveland spokesperson told me this morning: ‘#BraylenNoble was discovered and recovered not based on a tip provided, so the $5000 reward money will not be issued.’

@WTOL11Toledo

Oooh, if you saw the vid the day the body was found, that young man was going everywhere saying he tipped LE he saw something and this was all because of him!
I guess not.

 

[crush]

Quote RSBM.

I guess I'm thinking two things.
1) It didn't actually happen to Braylen because virtually no one would take that risk. That leaves what as the most likely scenario? He was not relocated recently, he was missed by human (and search dog) error somehow?
2) What kind of person would move him to the pool days later? The main perpetrator? A co-conspiritor who really never wanted to be involved in the initial scenario but felt pressured to be at the time?

But I don't know that there are any past cases similar enough anyway. I am overanalyzing.

Everybody is trying to find a key to understanding what really happened
The final truth will probably be crazy.

 

[SAMS]

https://twitter.com/carla_bayron/status/1304545825369075715?s=21


“Elizabeth Irelan sketched this portrait of #BraylenNoble. She drove an hour and half from Angola, Indiana to place at his memorial in south Toledo. She says she has been following Braylen’s story since day 1 and hopes to give the portrait to his family” @WTOL11Toledo

 

[crush]

Anyone here also follow Maliyah Bass case?

 

[Kittybunny]

I'm usually incredibly jaded and cynical, and jump right to suspicions of those closest to the deceased but I don't know why I'm holding out hope that this was some horrible accident and the body was just missed. There are so many cases I've followed where bodies have been missed, even with cadaver dogs. Right there, right in front of them. I know, I know, the pool was searched repeatedly.

I will add that in large apartment complexes like this, opportunistic predators abound. Is it possible that Braylen fell out of the window and then was wandering, only to be taken advantage of by a neighbor who had him concealed in his apartment and then needed to get rid of the body when the heat turned up? Maybe LE even interviewed him. What was the case with that little girl in South Carolina whose neighbor abducted her? Maybe the mom did do something neglectful and is covering, but not for murder. Again, I know, I know, highly improbable.

I must've used up all my cynicism and suspicion on the Suzanne Morphew thread. Sigh.

 

[MimosaMornings]

The pool had been closed for 3 months - basically all summer. Was it locked or access restricted prior to Braylen’s disappearance?

 

[cuffem]

The pool had been closed for 3 months - basically all summer. Was it locked or access restricted prior to Braylen’s disappearance?

Good question. At my condos our pool has been closed since June but kept the cover off to allow pool care but after kids jumped fence (whom did not reside here) we had to put on cover.The pool service is a contract so even when not in use still has to be paid. Just a guess as to why there was no cover on pool if it was closed to residents because of covid.They may have left it off thinking phase 3 would happen before Fall.
To add- Most Northern States use pool covers during winter and I assumed these apartments had one.

 

[crush]

Anyone here also follow Maliyah Bass case?

ME's report has been Certificate of Death Not Ready
It changed tonight: Certificate of Death READY

 

[Rosegold68]

Was there not a police presence overnight in the days before a body discovery? Would someone not hear a body being chucked into water? Someone would have had to have climbed over to place him in silently

 

[charminglane]

Could it have rained while he was missing, causing the water to have movement, covering for a body to be placed there?

 

[Harmony 2]

this link does state in custody but no criminal charges yet:

Noble’s mother was taken into custody after the body was found, according to WTVG. No criminal charges have been announced against her at this time.

Ohio police find body of child presumed to be missing 3-year-old boy; mother taken into custody

That article is from September 9th when there was an angry crowd outside. This article is from September 10th:

Braylen’s death is currently being investigated by the Toledo Police Department, but so far it has not been deemed criminal and no suspects have been named.


Autopsy on Braylen Noble finds no conclusive cause of death

 

[Harmony 2]

Here a Bing Maps Birds Eye View. The apartment is in the upper right and the pool in the lower left: Maps

Thanks I didn't know it was so close.

 

[LucyRocket]

Good question. At my condos our pool has been closed since June but kept the cover off to allow pool care but after kids jumped fence (whom did not reside here) we had to put on cover.The pool service is a contract so even when not in use still has to be paid. Just a guess as to why there was no cover on pool if it was closed to residents because of covid.They may have left it off thinking phase 3 would happen before Fall.
To add- Most Northern States use pool covers during winter and I assumed these apartments had one.

I didn't think of covid! There are several MSM articles which state that the pool has been locked for a few months due to an issue with the pump.

At your condos, are all residents given a key to the pool gate?