GUILTY TX - PFC Vanessa Guillen, 20, Fort Hood military base, items left behind, 22 Apr 2020 *arrests* #4

[jondaba]

I am not sure of all the questions that you are referring to. It is purely my opinion that VG would not have gone all alone to ARs armor room. If he had previously sexually harassed her. I accept that you feel she did.

My argument on this thread is not to deny that VGs death was a great tradgedy. It still is A bitter tragedy for her mother in particular because no one can experience a greater grief in life than parent of a child who dies.

No one is more sympathetic to VG as a victim than I am.

Should the Army pay big money to VGs Mom?

That is our only point of disagreement

I feel terrible about VGs death. I am victim friendly.

But it has not been proven to me that the army should give big money to Mom.

From my research, it appears that the law in Texas is that if a psychopathic fellow soldier suddenly, without warning, murders another soldier, the Army doesn”t have to pay money damages to the victims family.

There is no actual evidence that prior to being murdered, poor VG mentioned AR’s name to anyone.

If VG had told mom, sisters or friends the name of AG, wouldn’t they have immediately blamed him the minute VG vanished?

But they did not.

The name AR did not become known to the family until after poor VG’s remains were found

From everything I read on this thread and on the Internet and then on Facebook, VG was a wonderful young woman who had a promising future ahead of her and was likely to make a substantial contribution to the welfare of our society.

Her brutal murder was a tragedy for all of us.

if there is a special place in Heaven for sweet, innocent people who die too young at the hands of brutal sickos, Vanessa’s soul is resting there in peace.

 

[Ozoner]

I am not sure of all the questions that you are referring to. It is purely my opinion that VG would not have gone all alone to ARs armor room. If he had previously sexually harassed her. I accept that you feel she did.

Snipped
If her job duties required her to go there, what would her alternatives have been?

 

[jondaba]

I am not sure of all the questions that you are referring to. It is purely my opinion that VG would not have gone all alone to ARs armor room. If he had previously sexually harassed her. I accept that you feel she did.

My argument on this thread is not to deny that VGs death was a great tradgedy. It still is A bitter tragedy for her mother in particular because no one can experience a greater grief in life than parent of a child who dies.

No one is more sympathetic to VG as a victim than I am.

Should the Army pay big money to VGs Mom?

That is our only point of disagreement

I feel terrible about VGs death. I am victim friendly.

But it has not been proven to me that the army should give big money to Mom.

From my research, it appears that the law in Texas is that if a psychopathic fellow soldier suddenly, without warning, murders another soldier, the Army doesn”t have to pay money damages to the victims family.

There is no actual evidence that prior to being murdered, poor VG mentioned AR’s name to anyone.

If VG had told mom, sisters or friends the name of AG, wouldn’t they have immediately blamed him the minute VG vanished?

But they did not.

The name AR did not become known to the family until AFTER poor VG’s remains were found.

From everything I read on this thread and on the Internet and then on Facebook, VG was a wonderful young woman who had a promising future ahead of her and was likely to make a substantial contribution to the welfare of our society.

Her brutal murder was a tragedy for all of us.

if there is a special place in Heaven for sweet, innocent people who die too young at the hands of brutal sickos, Vanessa’s soul is resting there in peace.

 

[Boxer]

Snipped
If her job duties required her to go there, what would her alternatives have been?

None.

 

[jondaba]

I am not sure of all the questions

Snipped
If her job duties required her to go there, what would her alternatives have been?

Refuse to go and give the reason.
Take soldier with her.
Although I am paying some attention to the argument that she did not think she was running a risk of physical harm in going there just because he had peeped at her in the shower.

 

[Ozoner]

I am not sure of all the questions

Refuse to go and give the reason.
Take soldier with her.
Although I am paying some attention to the argument that she did not think she was running a risk of physical harm in going there just because he had peeped at her in the shower.

I very much doubt that she would have had a soldier at her disposal.

As for refusing to go, everything that we've heard about the culture at Fort Hood would suggest that such a refusal would have fallen on unsympathetic ears and that Vanessa would have been the one to face consequences.

It is likely that in VG's mind, not going AR's armory room would have amounted to letting him win—letting his behavior control her actions and interfere with her career. By going, she likely felt that she was standing up for herself. She likely never dreamt that AR's voyeurism and sexual innuendo would escalate to rape and murder because in most cases, it doesn't.

 

[Laughing]

@jondaba , have you ever served in the US military, or lived as the spouse, parent, child, or SO of an active-duty service member?

Please, posters, chime in if you have served or been close to a service member.

 

[MsBetsy]

I am not sure of all the questions

Refuse to go and give the reason.
Take soldier with her.
Although I am paying some attention to the argument that she did not think she was running a risk of physical harm in going there just because he had peeped at her in the shower.

I doubt it would have been easy to refuse to go and give a reason. She would have had to file a report in order for there to be a plan in place to ensure her safety. She was afraid to do that for fear of retaliation from her superiors. If that was the case, I can't imagine her refusing to go and waiting for a superior to make special arrangements for her on the spot.

I think Vanessa was following orders and never imagined she would be bludgeoned to death when she went to AR's armory room. That doesn't mean she wouldn't have felt uncomfortable or scared about going there. She probably thought she would just have to deal with him for a minute before continuing on to her next destination to pick up the paperwork.

IMO

 

[Boxer]

Boxer.
The NY Times stated AR was not VGs superior.

There are also positional duties required independent of rank.
AR wasn't her superior in her chain of command, but he was a step higher rank.

Any question of a lost or unaccounted for weapon has its own set of positionally ordered, immediate actions.

 

[GuyfromCanada]

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Congress will launch an investigation into sexual assault, disappearances, deaths and the leadership’s response at Fort Hood after 28 soldiers stationed at the U.S. Army base in Texas died this year, two subcommittee leaders announced Tuesday.

More at Congress investigates Fort Hood following soldier deaths

 

[Niner]

So @Seattle1 - Today 9/14 was the deadline for defense to enter a plea bargain or go to arraignment on 9/22.

Any news? TIA!

 

[Seattle1]

So @Seattle1 - Today 9/14 was the deadline for defense to enter a plea bargain or go to arraignment on 9/22.

Any news? TIA!

Nothing on the docket for plea bargain but not surprised as I think her attorney was too busy seeking a gag order --which was denied. Also, no reason to want a gag order if the defense had a plea bargain pending.

My understanding is that if there was a plea agreement by Sept 14, CA would be re-arraigned on Sept 22 where the agreement would be entered. If not, then she is due in court on Sept 28 to begin jury selection. This is a federal court case and things move a bit quicker but I won't be surprised if there's a continuance.

Eeek -- I can't believe it's mid-Sept already!

 

[Seattle1]

Navajo Nation leaders demand answers after two Native American soldiers die while at Fort Hood | Daily Mail Online

 

[Niner]

Nothing on the docket for plea bargain but not surprised as I think her attorney was too busy seeking a gag order --which was denied. Also, no reason to want a gag order if the defense had a plea bargain pending.

My understanding is that if there was a plea agreement by Sept 14, CA would be re-arraigned on Sept 22 where the agreement would be entered. If not, then she is due in court on Sept 28 to begin jury selection. This is a federal court case and things move a bit quicker but I won't be surprised if there's a continuance.

Eeek -- I can't believe it's mid-Sept already!

Yikes! Federal court definitely moves fast!! So next court date will be 9/28 for jury selection??!!
Guess nothing in the court site saying what the next date is? TIA! if you find one.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Here's a good article. I formatted it for the Case Archive but I will link the MSM below.
9/14/20 Maybe change will happen now that heat is applied. interview with Lupe: This all could have been prevented. Click magnifier symbol to enlarge.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/inside-the-armys-investigation-vanessa-guillen

Lupe Guillén used to think she wanted to join the military. And why wouldn’t she? Her older sister Vanessa always dreamed of military service, and growing up, Lupe wanted to do everything Vanessa did.

But Vanessa — who joined the Army in June 2018, and whose widely-publicized death at Fort Hood in April has forced a reckoning at the highest levels of the Army — was more than just a soldier.

Lupe, who is 16 and was interviewed with her mother’s consent, told Task & Purpose that Vanessa, 20, was planning for her future. She was going to finish out her Army contract, go to college — Lupe said she wanted to study chemical engineering at Texas A&M — get married, and start a family.

“That’s so much stuff!” Lupe recalled telling Vanessa. “And she was like, ‘I already made a plan.’ Her plan sounded perfect.”

Everyone who met Vanessa loved her, according to Lupe, who used to work with Vanessa at a flea market for extra spending money. After she left for Army basic training, not a day would pass where someone didn’t ask where her sister was.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Tomorrow is the day.

The #IAmVanessaGuillen Bill to be introduced on Capitol Hill this week - Crossroads Today

Natalie Khawam, the lawyer representing the Guillen family, made a post on social media over the weekend announcing the plan to introduce the bipartisan bill at 12 p.m. on September 16th on Capitol Hill.

The lead Congresswoman on the bill is Jackie Speier (D) from California, and the lead Congressman on the bill is Markwayne Mullin (R) from Oklahoma.

If passed, the #IAmVanessaGuillen bill would allow active-duty members to file sexual harassment and assault claims to a third party.

 

[Inquisitive2018]

Here's a good article. I formatted it for the Case Archive but I will link the MSM below.
9/14/20 Maybe change will happen now that heat is applied. interview with Lupe: This all could have been prevented. Click magnifier symbol to enlarge.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/inside-the-armys-investigation-vanessa-guillen

Lupe Guillén used to think she wanted to join the military. And why wouldn’t she? Her older sister Vanessa always dreamed of military service, and growing up, Lupe wanted to do everything Vanessa did.

But Vanessa — who joined the Army in June 2018, and whose widely-publicized death at Fort Hood in April has forced a reckoning at the highest levels of the Army — was more than just a soldier.

Lupe, who is 16 and was interviewed with her mother’s consent, told Task & Purpose that Vanessa, 20, was planning for her future. She was going to finish out her Army contract, go to college — Lupe said she wanted to study chemical engineering at Texas A&M — get married, and start a family.

“That’s so much stuff!” Lupe recalled telling Vanessa. “And she was like, ‘I already made a plan.’ Her plan sounded perfect.”

Everyone who met Vanessa loved her, according to Lupe, who used to work with Vanessa at a flea market for extra spending money. After she left for Army basic training, not a day would pass where someone didn’t ask where her sister was.

These cases never get easy, but this is just heartbreaking. I wish AR was alive to face what he did. Hope CA gets whatever max she can get for her involvement.

 

[Seattle1]

Yikes! Federal court definitely moves fast!! So next court date will be 9/28 for jury selection??!!
Guess nothing in the court site saying what the next date is? TIA! if you find one.

^^bbm

I expect there will be a continuance on the Sept 28 court date because the media would be all over this if jury selection was in progress. Tomorrow (9/16) is supposed to be when #I AM VG bill introduced on Capitol Hill, and the publicity will have to die down before any juror selection begins.

According to the docket, these dates were set on 8/14, just before VG's funeral -- but the case has not quieted down whatsoever. (The continuance will not make the docket until entered by the court -- probably on 9/28). MOO


From the docket:

08/13/2020 #27

SCHEDULING ORDER as to Cecily Ann Aguilar: Motion Hearing (for any outstanding motions) set for 9/8/2020 09:00 AM before Judge Jeffrey C. Manske, Plea Agreement due by 9/14/2020, Rearraignment set for 9/22/2020 09:00 AM before Judge Jeffrey C. Manske UNLESS AN EARLIER DATE IS SCHEDULED WITH THE COURTROOM DEPUTY CLERK, Jury Selection set and Trial set for 9/28/2020 09:00 AM before Judge Alan D Albright. Signed by Judge Alan D Albright. (lad) (Main Document 27 replaced on
8/13/2020) (sm3). (Entered: 08/13/2020)

Trial date set for Cecily Aguilar, woman charged in connection with Vanessa Guillen’s death

August 14, 2020

Court documents showed that Aguilar entered a “not guilty” plea and is set to appear before a judge on Sept. 28 following jury selection.

The legal teams have until Sept. 14 to enter a plea bargain, and should a plea bargain be entered, re-arraignment held on Sept. 22, according to court documents.

 

[JerseyGirl]

The trial for Cecily Aguilar was reset to start on November 30 at 9 a.m. The trial was originally set for September 28.

Rearraignment was set for November 10 at 9 a.m.

Cecily Aguilar’s hearing, trial delayed

 

[Cryptic]

The NYT claims that AR was NOT VG’s superior

But you can “moo” that he was.

In the chain of command, AR was not the victim's superior. Rather each soldier was assigned to a different company in the same Squadron (their unit has cavalry honorifics).

But.... A professional NCO on the forum related that armorers have an unofficial, "summoning" ability where they can de facto order soldiers of higher rank to report in and assist in accounting for a weapon or other sensitive equipment that the soldier was assigned or has knowledge of.

Though AR and the victim were in different companies, they were in the same squadron and AR was a more senior armorer. My guess is that his de facto ordering / summoning ability also extended to Guillen.

So, the NYT is correct in that AR was not Guillen's superior and could not issue her orders. But.... in the area of unit weapons accountability, he could giver her uhhmmm.... "strong recommendations"- including coming in on her day off. That is apparently what he did with the ruse of a weapon not being accounted for.