Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[Deleted member 102539]

The so-called lull is normalcy. Emptiness is normalcy on that trail. After the murders and also before. Check any video on YouTube or elsewhere, from prior to February 2017 or later. The videographers don't encounter anyone. The aerial still photos from any time frame never show a car parked at Freedom Bridge. In fact, the only exception is from those drone photos posted here months ago. There is one car in the lot. It is obviously the car of the drone owner.

bitterbeatpoet said he visited the bridge 14 different times and only saw two people total...one each on two different occasions. That is the real world at Monon High Bridge trail. Admittedly it drives me nuts when somehow that area is described or theorized as a well-traveled park. It is just another empty trail in a monopoly of empty trails of that type. I've walked dozens and dozens of small town trails over the decades. The cities invariably try to pretend they hold greater popularity and traffic than actual. That's why I knew exactly what to expect at Delphi.

They aren't suckering me, on February 13, 2017 or any other day. If we had actual video of that entire day, prior to the search there would be fewer people in attendance than we've been led to believe. I'll take logic over anecdotes any time. A snow day isn't suddenly 20x. That is adjuster gullibility.

I guarantee Bridge Guy is laughing at the reports of so many people. He knows darn well how absurd that is. He cased the place and picked the place for exactly this reason, that if he encountered a suitable target there wouldn't be anyone else to interrupt.

This is exactly like a Pick Six...the payoff is astronomical when you've got the only ticket

If man sketch #1 and man sketch #2 plus Abby and Libby were the only people at MHB except a few witnesses, it can't be so very difficult, to finally catch the evil double killer, one should think.
Where were the druggies, meth cookers, hang out-teenagers, dog walkers on that sunny February 13th? Do they not exist or just happened to not be there that fateful day? Is Monday a suitable day for having the area relatively empty?

 

[stattlich1]

I guarantee Bridge Guy is laughing at the reports of so many people. He knows darn well how absurd that is. He cased the place and picked the place for exactly this reason, that if he encountered a suitable target there wouldn't be anyone else to interrupt.

He knew it to be remote. He had a spot where he waited and observed. He possibly/likely waited and observed several times before. That day in February his opportunity came to pass.

He laid in wait, the girls came down the path, crossed the bridge, he herded them under duress to the CS, he killed them, and drove off.

 

[somequestions]

He knew it to be remote. He had a spot where he waited and observed. He possibly/likely waited and observed several times before. That day in February his opportunity came to pass.

He laid in wait, the girls came down the path, crossed the bridge, he herded them under duress to the CS, he killed them, and drove off.

I do not know if he drove off, and that could be the key. But then how could anyone be confident as to say to themselves that if they have blood on them or wet pants that they can simply rely on psychology and hope that when they walk past people will not notice?

Where did the killer go after the crime? That is the question.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

He knew it to be remote. He had a spot where he waited and observed. He possibly/likely waited and observed several times before. That day in February his opportunity came to pass.

He laid in wait, the girls came down the path, crossed the bridge, he herded them under duress to the CS, he killed them, and drove off.

Maybe, he knew the place well, because he had other (secret) things done there, and on these occasions he sometimes saw a few of his "usually targets" walking along, girls or young women. Otherwise I can't imagine, the killer just waited for some victims to appear, without doing something else meanwhile for the pastime. Who would drive for example 1,5 hours each time for unsuccessfully waiting for victims only? An impatient person wouldn't do that, and I believe, BG is impatient most of his time. MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

If man sketch #1 and man sketch #2 plus Abby and Libby were the only people at MHB except a few witnesses, it can't be so very difficult, to finally catch the evil double killer, one should think.
Where were the druggies, meth cookers, hang out-teenagers, dog walkers on that sunny February 13th? Do they not exist or just happened to not be there that fateful day? Is Monday a suitable day for having the area relatively empty?

For a population of only 3,000 Delphi has developed an admirable 10 mile trail system. I think one reason why that portion of the high bridge trail might’ve been quite empty on a Monday is because it’s one of the furthest trail segments from the town and it’d be a fair distance to walk to from there. There’s other walking trail options which are much closer for townspeople, right from their doorstep.
JMO

Map of Delphi Trails -
https://www.carrollcountyindiana.com/files_uploaded/DelphiTrailsMap_updtd2011.pdf

 

[stattlich1]

I do not know if he drove off, and that could be the key. But then how could anyone be confident as to say to themselves that if they have blood on them or wet pants that they can simply rely on psychology and hope that when they walk past people will not notice?

Where did the killer go after the crime? That is the question.

I don't know if he drove off either. But to walk from the CS, up the hill to the rear of that cemetery, get in a car, and turn right when departing, would put me in rural Indiana real quick, where the eyes to see me are minimal, very minimal.

 

[Charlot123]

If man sketch #1 and man sketch #2 plus Abby and Libby were the only people at MHB except a few witnesses, it can't be so very difficult, to finally catch the evil double killer, one should think.
Where were the druggies, meth cookers, hang out-teenagers, dog walkers on that sunny February 13th? Do they not exist or just happened to not be there that fateful day? Is Monday a suitable day for having the area relatively empty?

Drug dealers, drug partiers, meth cookers, teenagers from a town with no mall on an off-school days, flannel shirt guys, people restoring the benches, dog walkers, GPS-treasure-hunters, people photo shooting for bridgehunter website, and some others? And why, if they found Libby’s phone, they can not GPS-trace its route?

 

[Charlot123]

I do not know if he drove off, and that could be the key. But then how could anyone be confident as to say to themselves that if they have blood on them or wet pants that they can simply rely on psychology and hope that when they walk past people will not notice?

Where did the killer go after the crime? That is the question.

Depending on when the crime was over. And this is one of the points of contention.

 

[stattlich1]

Maybe, he knew the place well, because he had other (secret) things done there, and on these occasions he sometimes saw a few of his "usually targets" walking along, girls or young women. Otherwise I can't imagine, the killer just waited for some victims to appear, without doing something else meanwhile for the pastime. Who would drive for example 1,5 hours each time for unsuccessfully waiting for victims only? An impatient person wouldn't do that, and I believe, BG is impatient most of his time. MOO

Excellent thoughts.

So BG likely wouldn't be going to the trails simply to sit around and do nothing, waiting for potential victims. Then what would be his reason for being there in the first place? Exercise? or, as you said, other 'secret' things. Maybe he goes there for drug deals? To masturbate?

I would venture most folks would access that trail for the hiking, the fresh air, the views, the potential wildlife sightings. Was this killers motive for going there, and being there, the same? Or was his motive to murder?

What I'm trying to say is this. What was his 'reason' for being there, on THAT day? Was it a random murder, a planned murder, or a targeted murder, or a combination thereof?

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Drug dealers, drug partiers, meth cookers, teenagers from a town with no mall on an off-school days, flannel shirt guys, people restoring the benches, dog walkers, GPS-treasure-hunters, people photo shooting for bridgehunter website, and some others? And why, if they found Libby’s phone, they can not GPS-trace its route?

Maybe LE did. Remember when Sgt. Holman said that none of us talking about the case have the scenario right. He didn’t explain what he meant by that.

 

[Charlot123]

Excellent thoughts.

So BG likely wouldn't be going to the trails simply to sit around and do nothing, waiting for potential victims. Then what would be his reason for being there in the first place? Exercise? or, as you said, other 'secret' things. Maybe he goes there for drug deals? To masturbate?

I would venture most folks would access that trail for the hiking, the fresh air, the views, the potential wildlife sightings. Was this killers motive for going there, and being there, the same? Or was his motive to murder?

What I'm trying to say is this. What was his 'reason' for being there, on THAT day? Was it a random murder, a planned murder, or a targeted murder, or a combination thereof?

I am not a gambler, so what I say might sound naive. But if I had 100 chips, I’d put 95 of them into “planned and targeted, with a collateral victim” jar. There still is 5% of it being a random SK. However, targeting two girls means he intensely wanted one out, and was constrained in time, feeling that “tomorrow might be too late”. It puts more weight to “has a motive”.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I’ll throw my two cents in about whether any social media contact by Libby or Abby somehow led to their deaths. I believe LE and the families when they say there was nothing found that that indicated a link between online communication and the murders.
The discussion about the girls’ plans perhaps having been overheard at school I think has some merit except for one thing. It’s very possible there was tons of conversation at school leading up to that long weekend about what people were going to be doing or were planning or wanted to do. Maybe the girls talked of going to the trails, of wanting to meet friends there. Maybe some nefarious person heard it. The problem is Libby and Abby were too young to drive. They were totally dependent on other people to take them places. So even if the nefarious person heard their plans for a hoped-for trip to the trails there was absolutely no guarantee the girls would be there and if they could pull it off, the time they were there would be completely up to whoever was driving them.
My opinion still is that it was a spur of the moment trip for the girls. The killer was at the trails looking for an opportunity. Just through everyone at the trails random strollings at that specific time the girls found themselves isolated at the end of the bridge and that was the opportunity the killer was looking for. Just my thoughts.

 

[Charlot123]

I’ll throw my two cents in about whether any social media contact by Libby or Abby somehow led to their deaths. I believe LE and the families when they say there was nothing found that that indicated a link between online communication and the murders.
The discussion about the girls’ plans perhaps having been overheard at school I think has some merit except for one thing. It’s very possible there was tons of conversation at school leading up to that long weekend about what people were going to be doing or were planning or wanted to do. Maybe the girls talked of going to the trails, of wanting to meet friends there. Maybe some nefarious person heard it. The problem is Libby and Abby were too young to drive. They were totally dependent on other people to take them places. So even if the nefarious person heard their plans for a hoped-for trip to the trails there was absolutely no guarantee the girls would be there and if they could pull it off, the time they were there would be completely up to whoever was driving them.
My opinion still is that it was a spur of the moment trip for the girls. The killer was at the trails looking for an opportunity. Just through everyone at the trails random strollings at that specific time the girls found themselves isolated at the end of the bridge and that was the opportunity the killer was looking for. Just my thoughts.

What if it is different? What if the person was monitoring their schedules, their school, their afterschool activities, who, when? And the girls probably were not that discreet with their plans, they were kids, after all. So when it was known that they were going to the trails alone, the person(s) decided that this would be their best chance... I think some aspects of the crime indicate planning. Maybe something did not go the prepared way, but that person thought of the phones, he was aware of the DNA, he probably knows and reads a lot...

One issue is, the girls were making trips to that bridge, they were unafraid of it. You can always pull a person out using his/her hobby, for example, and these girls had quite a few.

As to people taking them places... probably they would not risk attacking girls in the presence of certain adults, as to others, they would be considered expendable; moreover, in that case, the CS would have looked very different. In general, guns would have been considered a problem, not people per se.

 

[Charlot123]

Excellent thoughts.

So BG likely wouldn't be going to the trails simply to sit around and do nothing, waiting for potential victims. Then what would be his reason for being there in the first place? Exercise? or, as you said, other 'secret' things. Maybe he goes there for drug deals? To masturbate?

I would venture most folks would access that trail for the hiking, the fresh air, the views, the potential wildlife sightings. Was this killers motive for going there, and being there, the same? Or was his motive to murder?

What I'm trying to say is this. What was his 'reason' for being there, on THAT day? Was it a random murder, a planned murder, or a targeted murder, or a combination thereof?

A simple fisher, for example? Some things don't look like it, like the shoes on BG, but since BG doesn't resemble their sketch, maybe it was another person? How would a fisher dress? What would he carry? And if it is a fisher, then wet pants would not be seen (just wet high boots), and it all would look different. MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

What if it is different? What if the person was monitoring their schedules, their school, their afterschool activities, who, when? And the girls probably were not that discreet with their plans, they were kids, after all. So when it was known that they were going to the trails alone, the person(s) decided that this would be their best chance... I think some aspects of the crime indicate planning. Maybe something did not go the prepared way, but that person thought of the phones, he was aware of the DNA, he probably knows and reads a lot...

One issue is, the girls were making trips to that bridge, they were unafraid of it. You can always pull a person out using his/her hobby, for example, and these girls had quite a few.

As to people taking them places... probably they would not risk attacking girls in the presence of certain adults, as to others, they would be considered expendable; moreover, in that case, the CS would have looked very different. In general, guns would have been considered a problem, not people per se.

One of the points of my posts was to point out that any potential killer who maybe overheard their hopeful plans for the weekend would have NO way of knowing if or when those plans might take place and could not make plans to be there. I did not suggest whoever might drive the girls to the trails would be possible victims. That has nothing to do with anything I said.

 

[stattlich1]

I would think any potential killer who may have become aware of a plan to visit the bridge that day could certainly have lain in wait.

Park in that cemetery, walk to a vantage point that provides a view of the bridge, and wait.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

(RSBM)

Where did the killer go after the crime? That is the question.

Straight back to his home in the area. Threw out soiled clothes from a few moments earlier in a regular trash bag (to a trash can that no one would even *think about* -- say, at a gas station or a convenience store -- until it was too late to locate the contents), showered, ate, then... generously showed up to "help out" that evening, as the community began an urgent search for two young girls who were thought to be missing.

All JMOO.

 

[Gracie55]

Is there not a bridge called Wilson's Bridge a quarter mile or so up creek? If he knew the area he could have just followed the woods to the area of this bridge and exited there. Don't know the area though, might not be possible due to terrain, or maybe there wouldn't have been a spot to hide a car.

 

[Falling Down]

For a population of only 3,000 Delphi has developed an admirable 10 mile trail system. I think one reason why that portion of the high bridge trail might’ve been quite empty on a Monday is because it’s one of the furthest trail segments from the town and it’d be a fair distance to walk to from there. There’s other walking trail options which are much closer for townspeople, right from their doorstep.
JMO

Map of Delphi Trails -
https://www.carrollcountyindiana.com/files_uploaded/DelphiTrailsMap_updtd2011.pdf

Good post.

It is an impressive trail system, and as I spend more time in central IN I'm discovering that there are many miles of beautiful trails in this region. Pretty much all rails-to-trails, I'd say within 5 years much of the state will be connected by hundreds of miles of these trails.

When I visited Delphi in the Summer of 2017, I drove through town and walked a fair distance to get a feel for it. I stopped at the canal park, right by the building where the PC later happened in April of 2019. Then I drove to Riley Park, where lots of people were enjoying a church outing, in fact I was invited to a baptism in the creek as I walked near to the suspension bridge, and I walked down to the creek bed by that bridge.

I was looking for a possible path which leads east towards MHB, say a trail along the creek. No such path exists. Furthermore, there's no "direct route" as I'd call it, from downtown Delphi to MHB, either. It's a route that I'd imagine people simply wouldn't walk, and besides, there's no finished trail connecting the town proper to the MHB trail by IN 25/C.R. 300.

Like people in Delphi said after the murders in interviews with reporters out of Indy, they knew a bridge was out there, somewhere, but they really didn't know exactly where it was, nor could they give directions on how to get to it.

My hunch re: people going to the bridge, pre-murders, is folks would park at one of three places. 1) The parking area on the west side of IN 25 (southbound), accessible from C.R. 300 (close to where that road terminates at Main St.), 2) The abandoned CPS building, and 3) The tiny parking area, where the girls were dropped off. Certainly people may have sometimes parked along C.R. 300. I just don't picture people walking from Delphi proper out to the bridge very often.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Is there not a bridge called Wilson's Bridge a quarter mile or so up creek? If he knew the area he could have just followed the woods to the area of this bridge and exited there. Don't know the area though, might not be possible due to terrain, or maybe there wouldn't have been a spot to hide a car.

That was another spot I checked, and it's a beautiful area of the gorge.

The gorge is extremely narrow and the walls are steep, right there. There's no trail through there along the creek. Also the vegetation is extremely thick.