TX - Elizabeth Barraza, 29, murdered setting up garage sale, Harris County, Jan 2019 #2

[TedFrank]

I agree. I believe this is Star Wars jealousy related.

My study of human nature? No way this is romantic jealousy, i.e. a woman becoming inflamed with someone that the vic was dating or married to and thereby being jealous of vic. If that's what you mean.

 

[fridaybaker]

What "game" was EB playing though? I may have missed something.

Well, I may entirely be misunderstanding something here. I was under the impression that she and her husband were heavily involved in something similar to what Ms. Hart was. Apparently, in the Hart case, it was extremely competitive.

 

[Cryptic]

I think this could be Star Wars related, and simply that: No "romantic" jealousy, but jealousy/competitiveness related to the game. I've read many times where people get so wrapped up in these games that they lose all sense of perspective.

Though this maybe an over analysis, I have always liked numbers. Adult "LARP', by its nature is going to attract some people seeking to escape everyday life, and in some cases reality.

Though I am sure that a significant majority of people in LARP view it purely as recreation, a certain number may not. These could be divided into two general categories:


- Category A: LARPers that are potentially in "too deep". This does not mean 'murderous" per se. Rather, they just derive a disproportionate amount of their self esteem, social status and social interaction from the LARP world. As their status in the LARP world may far exceed their status in the outside world, they may really value LARP status. Lets say that 1 in 20, or 5% of LARPers are category "A".

- Category 'B': Lets say another 5% of LARPers are of marginal concern in that they have some of the above characteristics, but to lesser degrees. If experiencing stress in the outside world, they may move to category 'A' as the LARP world is a place of refuge.

This yields ten percent LARPers being potentially of concern. If say, the victim had direct contact with 300 or so individuals in the LARPer circles, 30 people could warrant further checks.

But.... I have no idea if the above estimate 0f 5% of LARPers in category 'A" and 5% in 'B' is accurate. Perhaps it is too high?

 

[sl222]

Very few people knew about this garage sale. For something to be this well planned, the perpetrator had to know the exact day and time of the garage sale and know that Liz was going to take a work vacation day. They had to know what times to avoid being seen by school buses too. They had to risk getting a truck and making sure the truck couldn't be traced. They had to be able to drive by the home the night before, and be available on a Friday morning in rush hour from 6am till however long it took them to dispose of the truck. Of course they also had to also have an alibi for their whereabouts. This doesn't seem like the work of just one person, either. For a Star Wars group member to do all that out of anger seems like an unlikely possibility IMO. I think the killers thought that the bizarre, outlandish nature of this crime would be what people would focus on. Above all, the killers wanted to get away with it so everything they did revolved around that.

 

[Warwick1991]

Very few people knew about this garage sale. For something to be this well planned, the perpetrator had to know the exact day and time of the garage sale and know that Liz was going to take a work vacation day. They had to know what times to avoid being seen by school buses too. They had to risk getting a truck and making sure the truck couldn't be traced. They had to be able to drive by the home the night before, and be available on a Friday morning in rush hour from 6am till however long it took them to dispose of the truck. Of course they also had to also have an alibi for their whereabouts. This doesn't seem like the work of just one person, either. For a Star Wars group member to do all that out of anger seems like an unlikely possibility IMO. I think the killers thought that the bizarre, outlandish nature of this crime would be what people would focus on. Above all, the killers wanted to get away with it so everything they did revolved around that.

I'd agree that the planning and care point to something other than a Star Wars group. IMO it is a planned hit, perhaps with a paid killer. There are things we don't know here - issues with family, friends or finances.

 

[Cottonstar]

My study of human nature? No way this is romantic jealousy, i.e. a woman becoming inflamed with someone that the vic was dating or married to and thereby being jealous of vic. If that's what you mean.

No. The opposite. Not romantic jealousy, but jealous of her position or status with the Star Wars group.

 

[sl222]

Though this maybe an over analysis, I have always liked numbers. Adult "LARP', by its nature is going to attract some people seeking to escape everyday life, and in some cases reality.

Though I am sure that a significant majority of people in LARP view it purely as recreation, a certain number may not. These could be divided into two general categories:


- Category A: LARPers that are potentially in "too deep". This does not mean 'murderous" per se. Rather, they just derive a disproportionate amount of their self esteem, social status and social interaction from the LARP world. As their status in the LARP world may far exceed their status in the outside world, they may really value LARP status. Lets say that 1 in 20, or 5% of LARPers are category "A".

- Category 'B': Lets say another 5% of LARPers are of marginal concern in that they have some of the above characteristics, but to lesser degrees. If experiencing stress in the outside world, they may move to category 'A' as the LARP world is a place of refuge.

This yields ten percent LARPers being potentially of concern. If say, the victim had direct contact with 300 or so individuals in the LARPer circles, 30 people could warrant further checks.

But.... I have no idea if the above estimate 0f 5% of LARPers in category 'A" and 5% in 'B' is accurate. Perhaps it is too high?

Even though I think the chances are this wasn't such a person, you're right, numbers are important and interesting. About the numbers you're saying, I think Category B would be a percentage within Category A. So if you have 5% of people who are totally caught up in this to an extreme, there could be another 5% within that number who could go unhinged. So for 1000 people, you'd get 50 in the first category, and of those 50, the 5% would be one person. I wonder what the people in these groups would say about the percentages.

 

[MimosaMornings]

The 501st Legion

I have family members in various states in this group and they do community, charity events. They have meetings and go to places in costume such as hospitals, malls, ball games. They might attend a special showing of a Star Wars movie. But they do not participate in live action role play.

They know of people who are into that activity, playing characters in an organized planned scenario but it is not an 501 sanctioned event.
JMO

 

[Ursamajr]

Well, I may entirely be misunderstanding something here. I was under the impression that she and her husband were heavily involved in something similar to what Ms. Hart was. Apparently, in the Hart case, it was extremely competitive.

I'm going to speak from just my experience. I've been involved with cosplay for a different fandom (one with British wizards) but I have had a few close friends who have/do participate in the Star Wars fandom. This usually includes stuff like waiting for days at a time on premier lines in tents wearing costumes and participating at meetups. Cosplay in itself isn't a competitive game. Vampire the Masquerade was/is more of a competitive game along the lines of Dungeons and Dragons. VtM can involve intense roleplay and LARPing (I've headed out to the forest for that) where you try to strategically eliminate other players and DnD is more strategy around a table but is mostly cooperative gameplay.

The 501st Legion (the group that Elizabeth belonged to) is known to take part in a lot of charity functions. You can even request them to appear at events. At Comic conventions, they will show up in custom handmade costumes and it's quite a sight to behold. They'll schedule meetups and arrive in procession/formation and you can pose with them and photograph them. They don't break character during these appearances and it's quite an experience. Side note: The 501st is only "bad guys". The 501st Legion is Vader's army. I suggest looking them up on youtube to see how they put on a show!

As for what can bee seen as the competitive part: The 501st Legion is seen by some as an extremely elite group with strict rules (because it kind of is). Wearing a store-bought stormtrooper costume is definitely a no-no and you need to be able to be willing to coordinate with others and participate in events. The group requires membership and you need to be approved. If someone knows - please correct me if I am wrong - I haven't seen mention of Elizabeth being one of the higher-ups in the 501st. I don't know if she had a rank. If she did and she was one of the people to decided who can and can't join the group - I can see that being upsetting. I have always figured that avenue would have been explored since she most likely wouldn't have been the only one who participated in those decisions and wouldn't have been the only one aware. Another scenario I could see leading up to this tragic event would be someone getting kicked out of the group for infractions. I assume this would also have been explored since the group keeps records and would know active/inactive memberships. Of course, there is always the chance of being approached by someone unknown to anyone in the 501st - a complete outlier - who didn't contact the group through the group's website and didn't follow application protocol. This scenario has the possibility of no one else knowing this person. I.E: Elizabeth is approached at an event by a person who asks "hey can I join your group? Elizabeth asks them if they had a costume and/or lets them know they needed to apply to the local chapter online and that answer is unacceptable to the person.

Fandoms are known to be... intense. There is no shortage of drama. I have too many stories but I have also made life-long friendships through the fandom I was in (4/5 of my brides-people including my flower-bearer were through the fandom). If you want some reading and examples check out FandomWank.

I'm sorry this was completely rambly but hopefully, I can provide at least a little bit of insight to the 501st Legion and fandoms in general.

 

[Cryptic]

So if you have 5% of people who are totally caught up in this to an extreme, there could be another 5% within that number who could go unhinged. So for 1000 people, you'd get 50 in the first category, and of those 50, the 5% would be one person.

I wonder what the people in these groups would say about the percentages.

Your numbers* make perfect sense to me and I really like they way you visualize the overall population and the subgroup(s) of concern:

An estimated 5% of LARPers derive to varying degrees, disproportionate amounts of self esteem, social status and social interaction from the LARP world. Of which, as small minority of the minority (5% of 5%) could potentially go unhinged over a LARP world respect / disrespect issue.

As for whether the base number of 5% of LARPers being uhmm....."in deep" is an accurate figure, Ursamajr has alot of first hand knowledge of LARPer groups and relates:

Fandoms are known to be... intense. There is no shortage of drama. I have too many stories but I have also made life-long friendships through the fandom

Thus, I am thinking that the 5% "in deep" base figure might be a low estimate. Perhaps the actual base figure is say, 10%? (Ursamajr, what do you think?)

Applying the 10% number to a pool of 1000 participants yields..... wow, 100 people deriving disproportionate self esteem, status, and social interaction from the LARP world. Of which, 5 could potentially go unhinged over a LARP world issue.

*minor correction that 5% of 50 is about 2-3 people with unhinging potential

 

[sl222]

Your numbers* make perfect sense to me and I really like they way you visualize the overall population and the subgroup(s) of concern:

An estimated 5% of LARPers derive to varying degrees, disproportionate amounts of self esteem, social status and social interaction from the LARP world. Of which, as small minority of the minority (5% of 5%) could potentially go unhinged over a LARP world respect / disrespect issue.

As for whether the base number of 5% of LARPers being uhmm....."in deep" is an accurate figure, Ursamajr has alot of first hand knowledge of LARPer groups and relates:


Thus, I am thinking that the 5% "in deep" base figure might be a low estimate. Perhaps the actual base figure is say, 10%? (Ursamajr, what do you think?)

Applying the 10% number to a pool of 1000 participants yields..... wow, 100 people deriving disproportionate self esteem, status, and social interaction from the LARP world. Of which, 5 could potentially go unhinged over a LARP world issue.

*minor correction that 5% of 50 is about 2-3 people with unhinging potential

Thanks for that correction, that must be right, 2-3 people in a 1000, not 1 in a 1000.

 

[Ursamajr]

Thus, I am thinking that the 5% "in deep" base figure might be a low estimate. Perhaps the actual base figure is say, 10%? (Ursamajr, what do you think?)

Applying the 10% number to a pool of 1000 participants yields..... wow, 100 people deriving disproportionate self-esteem, status, and social interaction from the LARP world. Of which, 5 could potentially go unhinged over a LARP world issue.

*minor correction that 5% of 50 is about 2-3 people with unhinging potential

Honestly - I have no idea. Do fandoms have a greater chance of attracting the fringes of society than other "hobbies" do? I'd say yes. Most definitely. These types of costuming fandoms provide a way for people to escape their lives and a place to belong. You know the saying "What happens in Vegas..."? another joke is "What happens at Comicon...". For some people, wearing a mask makes you anonymous and it gives you confidence that you wouldn't have any other way in any other part of your life (that said: interesting that it looks like EB's killer might have been wearing a costume). Some people depend on fandoms for their friends which in some cases is also their chosen family. To some, it's more than a "hobby". Their *entire identity* can be based in a fandom. Take that away and it can ruin a person's life. There are so many articles written about the psychology of fandoms and the psychology of the people that make up fandoms.

Example time! I once got death threats because a photo circulated of me with an actor related to the fandom where it looked like we were holding hands. People figured out who I was and I got messages that spanned from "what did he smell like" to "I'm going to kill you, you dumb ugly b*tch!". Another person I knew wrote a massively popular fan fiction and was 1. worshipped as a goddess for it and 2. had excrement sent to her house because people hated her for it.

Would those things have happened if I or the other person wasn't involved in the fandom? Probably not but those things do happen outside and completely unrelated to fandoms.

If Elizabeth had drama with someone in the fandom, most likely others knew. In my experience, it was rare that those things went unknown. Though it's possible that someone outside of the fandom could have fixated on her without her ever knowing but also because of the fandom.

Ok. I never want to type the word "fandom" again.

 

[fridaybaker]

dbm

 

[Ursamajr]

This is interesting about the costume idea...

It's interesting, right?! I'm basing my opinion that the killer is wearing an outfit/costume on how the person moves. They look... goofy. What the killer is wearing doesn't look Star Wars related to me but it still looks like an intentional choice. Not sure if that intention was to cover up their body frame and/or gait and/or to disguise themselves to witnesses and/or to Elizabeth herself. Whatever the intention was, it doesn't look like clothes the person usually wears.

 

[canteloupe]

A quick question of clarification:

Are Friday yard sales normal for this area?

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, but I’ve web scraped Craigslist data for comparable urban areas and a weekday sale appears statistically anomalous.

 

[sl222]

A quick question of clarification:

Are Friday yard sales normal for this area?

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, but I’ve web scraped Craigslist data for comparable urban areas and a weekday sale appears statistically anomalous.

Yes, they are normal in Houston and surrounding suburbs (this happened in a suburb of Houston). Some start their garage sales on Thursdays even. There are lot of people going to the garage sales year-round because the weather rarely gets very cold.

They were going to take a flight for their anniversary trip after the garage sale, but I don't knwo what day the flight was, so I wonder if the garage sale was planned for 1 or for 2 days.

 

[canteloupe]

Yes, they are normal in Houston and surrounding suburbs (this happened in a suburb of Houston). Some start their garage sales on Thursdays even. There are lot of people going to the garage sales year-round because the weather rarely gets very cold.

They were going to take a flight for their anniversary trip after the garage sale, but I don't knwo what day the flight was, so I wonder if the garage sale was planned for 1 or for 2 days.

thank you! Super helpful.

 

[Cryptic]

Do fandoms have a greater chance of attracting the fringes of society than other "hobbies" do? I'd say yes. Most definitely. These types of costuming fandoms provide a way for people to escape their lives and a place to belong.

Some people depend on fandoms for their friends which in some cases is also their chosen family. To some, it's more than a "hobby". Their *entire identity* can be based in a fandom.

If Elizabeth had drama with someone in the fandom, most likely others knew. In my experience, it was rare that those things went unknown.

Thank you for your insights into this sub culture.

Your first hand knowledge indicates that a certain number of people in the LARP world are, well..... "in very deep" and that the LARP world attracts some people pre-disposed to "go deep". As result, a participant becoming unhinged over a LARP world respect / disrespect issue or a jealousy seems to be well with in the realm of possibility.

At the same time, you also state that in your experience, LARP dramas were almost always known to others in the group. This does not appear to be the case with the victim. Likewise, there does not appear to have been a build up such as the comments that "in deep" types directed to you or the "special mailings" that others sent to the fan author.

In short, some aspects of the LARP world suggest a distinct possibility of a LARP derived motive such as a disproportionate number of people deriving most, or all of their self esteem, social interaction and status from the LARP world, but other aspects (drama is almost always known with in the group, lack of a build up) seem to detract from it.

Thanks again for your insights. Wow, I had no idea that even appearing to hold hand with or be favored by a star could trigger such reactions.

 

[MimosaMornings]

A quick question of clarification:

Are Friday yard sales normal for this area?

Apologies in advance if this has been asked before, but I’ve web scraped Craigslist data for comparable urban areas and a weekday sale appears statistically anomalous.

Yeah, I was perplexed by the Friday yard sale thing in Texas when I would see them listed in the local papers. Estate sales too. People would start lining up outside the house at 7am for a 9am Friday morning estate sale.
There is a lot of shift work due to the plants in the area also.

 

[cluciano63]

Same in Albuquerque, as far as most yard/garage sales starting on Fridays...and people often waiting at opening time.