WM3 are guilty- Evidence.

[7Wm3100]

lots of people should've been POI to police

why wasn't hobbs interviewed in 1993? why didn't police focus more on kent lynn after a knife belonging to him was found in the woods? there are many shady characters in this case who should've at least been interviewed by police but weren't. echols became the main target of the police because of jerry driver. why else would he be a POI in this case? because he had a troubled past? because he was weird and dressed odd? there is nothing linking echols to the crime scene that night, nor is there anything linking him to the victims. so no, i don't think echols should've been a POI. they should've started with the parents, and then moved onto people who were confirmed to have been in and around the woods that night. which none of the WM3 were

WMPD saw echols and realized he was their perfect suspect because he stood out. they saw misskelley and saw their perfect target to take advantage of. there were a number of people with actual links to the victims/crime scene who were completely ignored because WMPD was so focused on the WM3

Rubbish. Hobbs actually provided fingerprints and dna to the police. Jacoby said he seen him 3 seperate times that night.

Echols has no alibi. His alibi fell apart. The girl he spoke to on the phone sctually said....he was out with jason that night.

Misskelly named echols. And driver came forward. Why would he not be a person of interest.

Why would the police...want to catch just anyone for this case. The same as everybody else....they obviously wanted to catch the right people.

I think a polygraph should be arranged for damien. Hes had one before which he actually failed. So did miskelly. Jason refused to take one. And never gsve an alibi.

My question is how come the producers of paradise lost....got byers to take a polygraph test. Which he passed. How come that used to clear him is not used to clear damien.

How come its a useless test for damien but its not for byers. They insisted he take one. Put him under pressure to take one. Told everyone he was guilty. He turned up passed it. Then hobbs becomes guilty.

I say we get hobbs and damien to do a polygraph.

Most importantly tho...how come the producers of paradice lost dont get a polygraph for damien. They,ve already showed they believe in them.

Answer me that if you will.

 

[7Wm3100]

lots of people should've been POI to police

why wasn't hobbs interviewed in 1993? why didn't police focus more on kent lynn after a knife belonging to him was found in the woods? there are many shady characters in this case who should've at least been interviewed by police but weren't. echols became the main target of the police because of jerry driver. why else would he be a POI in this case? because he had a troubled past? because he was weird and dressed odd? there is nothing linking echols to the crime scene that night, nor is there anything linking him to the victims. so no, i don't think echols should've been a POI. they should've started with the parents, and then moved onto people who were confirmed to have been in and around the woods that night. which none of the WM3 were

WMPD saw echols and realized he was their perfect suspect because he stood out. they saw misskelley and saw their perfect target to take advantage of. there were a number of people with actual links to the victims/crime scene who were completely ignored because WMPD was so focused on the WM3

Rubbish. Hobbs actually provided fingerprints and dna to the police. Jacoby said he seen him 3 seperate times that night.

Echols has no alibi. His alibi fell apart. The girl he spoke to on the phone sctually said....he was out with jason that night.

Misskelly named echols. And driver came forward. Why would he not be a person of interest.

Why would the police...want to catch just anyone for this case. The same as everybody else....they obviously wanted to catch the right people.

I think a polygraph should be arranged for damien. Hes had one before which he actually failed. So did miskelly. Jason refused to take one. And never gsve an alibi.

My question is how come the producers of paradise lost....got byers to take a polygraph test. Which he passed. How come that used to clear him is not used to clear damien.

How come its a useless test for damien but its not for byers. They insisted he take one. Put him under pressure to take one. Told everyone he was guilty. He turned up passed it. Then hobbs becomes guilty.

I say we get hobbs and damien to do a polygraph.

Most importantly tho...how come the producers of paradice lost dont get a polygraph for damien. They,ve already showed they believe in them.

Answer me that if you will.

 

[DHT1339]

Rubbish. Hobbs actually provided fingerprints and dna to the police. Jacoby said he seen him 3 seperate times that night.

Echols has no alibi. His alibi fell apart. The girl he spoke to on the phone sctually said....he was out with jason that night.

Misskelly named echols. And driver came forward. Why would he not be a person of interest.

Why would the police...want to catch just anyone for this case. The same as everybody else....they obviously wanted to catch the right people.

I think a polygraph should be arranged for damien. Hes had one before which he actually failed. So did miskelly. Jason refused to take one. And never gsve an alibi.

My question is how come the producers of paradise lost....got byers to take a polygraph test. Which he passed. How come that used to clear him is not used to clear damien.

How come its a useless test for damien but its not for byers. They insisted he take one. Put him under pressure to take one. Told everyone he was guilty. He turned up passed it. Then hobbs becomes guilty.

I say we get hobbs and damien to do a polygraph.

Most importantly tho...how come the producers of paradice lost dont get a polygraph for damien. They,ve already showed they believe in them.

Answer me that if you will.

if hobbs did provide fingerprints or DNA, they were never sent to a lab to be tested. the only DNA samples that were ever collected and tested from hobbs was the cigarette butt collected by ron lax. why didn't hobbs submit his samples to the defense like JMB did? i think i might have a feeling why

a polygraph did not clear byers of anything. polygraphs aren't admissible in court for a reason, i think we both know why that is. byers has a rock solid alibi. the only thing that kept byers floating around as a potential killer was his behavior

again, you really think the state would've released the WM3 if they had even the slightest bit of evidence they did this? even scott ellington admitted that he accepted the alford pleas because a new trial would be too costly. doesn't sound like someone who's totally convinced of their guilt

 

[7Wm3100]

if hobbs did provide fingerprints or DNA, they were never sent to a lab to be tested. the only DNA samples that were ever collected and tested from hobbs was the cigarette butt collected by ron lax. why didn't hobbs submit his samples to the defense like JMB did? i think i might have a feeling why

a polygraph did not clear byers of anything. polygraphs aren't admissible in court for a reason, i think we both know why that is. byers has a rock solid alibi. the only thing that kept byers floating around as a potential killer was his behavior

again, you really think the state would've released the WM3 if they had even the slightest bit of evidence they did this? even scott ellington admitted that he accepted the alford pleas because a new trial would be too costly. doesn't sound like someone who's totally convinced of their guilt

How come the producers of paradise lost asked byers to take a polygraph if they didnt put any stock in them?

And how come they,ve not asked the same of echols?

Surely they believe in them. Because they insisted byers took one. The fella fair play to the man took one. Its allright saying their not admissable but they must believe in them if they insisted byers took one.

For them not to hold echols to the same regard....is telling. Why doesnt he take one today? His defence team obviously put some stock in them if they insisted byers takes one.

 

[DHT1339]

How come the producers of paradise lost asked byers to take a polygraph if they didnt put any stock in them?

And how come they,ve not asked the same of echols?

Surely they believe in them. Because they insisted byers took one. The fella fair play to the man took one. Its allright saying their not admissable but they must believe in them if they insisted byers took one.

For them not to hold echols to the same regard....is telling. Why doesnt he take one today? His defence team obviously put some stock in them if they insisted byers takes one.

who cares what the producers of paradise lost think? they made byers take one because the entire point of the first PL film is to try and portray byers as a suspect. and byers, despite his likely innocence, did a terrible job at convincing people of that with his behavior

polygraphs are unreliable as hell and prove nothing

 

[7Wm3100]

who cares what the producers of paradise lost think? they made byers take one because the entire point of the first PL film is to try and portray byers as a suspect. and byers, despite his likely innocence, did a terrible job at convincing people of that with his behavior

polygraphs are unreliable as hell and prove nothing

They we,re reliable enough to please the people defending echols tho.

When it suited them anyway. They made a man who lost his step son...sit and take a lie detector test. Think about that for a minute.

And yet....

Have never asked their beloved echols to take one.

The ones defending echols...must believe in them to force byers to take one.

Surely any right thinking individual sees a hole in that. These people claim they just want justice. Prove it. Get echols doing a lie detector test. It was good enough for the step dad of one of the slain boys.

 

[Cappuccino]

They we,re reliable enough to please the people defending echols tho.

When it suited them anyway. They made a man who lost his step son...sit and take a lie detector test. Think about that for a minute.

And yet....

Have never asked their beloved echols to take one.

The ones defending echols...must believe in them to force byers to take one.

Surely any right thinking individual sees a hole in that. These people claim they just want justice. Prove it. Get echols doing a lie detector test. It was good enough for the step dad of one of the slain boys.

Lie detector tests are balderdash. They're not admissable in court for very good reasons. The makers of Paradise Lost no doubt had motives of their own to ask Byers to take one, just as he had motives of his own to agree to it, but that doesn't change the material reality that there is no such thing as a machine that can detect lies.

If you want to prove that the wm3 are guilty, you'd be better off leaving the pseudo science out of it, ( and the same goes to the makers of West of Memphis with their unethical decision to hypnotise Amanda Hobbs in order to extract accusations against her father).

 

[7Wm3100]

Lie detector tests are balderdash. They're not admissable in court for very good reasons. The makers of Paradise Lost no doubt had motives of their own to ask Byers to take one, just as he had motives of his own to agree to it, but that doesn't change the material reality that there is no such thing as a machine that can detect lies.

If you want to prove that the wm3 are guilty, you'd be better off leaving the pseudo science out of it, ( and the same goes to the makers of West of Memphis with their unethical decision to hypnotise Amanda Hobbs in order to extract accusations against her father).

Come on tho. Surely if its good enough for a man that had his step son murdered...its good enough for damien echols.

Its absolutely damning that these people insisted on one for byers and not echols.

Reveals their true intentions.

 

[Cappuccino]

Come on tho. Surely if its good enough for a man that had his step son murdered...its good enough for damien echols.

Its absolutely damning that these people insisted on one for byers and not echols.

Reveals their true intentions.

Great, you've proven whatever about the makers of Paradise Lost.

Lie detector tests are still balderdash,and I would prefer to discuss the actual crime and the evidence, not some irrelevant whatever about the producers of a documentary.

 

[7Wm3100]

Great, you've proven whatever about the makers of Paradise Lost.

Lie detector tests are still balderdash,and I would prefer to discuss the actual crime and the evidence, not some irrelevant whatever about the producers of a documentary.

It does reveal tho that the makers we,re happy to deceive people.

I m not sure about you but if someone is willing to deceive me once....i then are careful about how much stock i put into the rest. They missed out lots from them documentaries. Why not show both sides of the story.

From there we really need to fact check evety single thing they told us carefully. We cant just take what their telling us.

 

[Cappuccino]

It does reveal tho that the makers we,re happy to deceive people.

I m not sure about you but if someone is willing to deceive me once....i then are careful about how much stock i put into the rest. They missed out lots from them documentaries. Why not show both sides of the story.

From there we really need to fact check evety single thing they told us carefully. We cant just take what their telling us.

I already know that. For example, I fact checked the claim about animal predation and found that Ryan Clarke had said that the woods were full of turtles. You clearly didn't, you just dismissed it because it came from the defence.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

 

[herb4]

First off damiens length list of mental problems showing that not only was he capable but he,d spoke of similar things the boys suffered. If theres anyone in this case that had a fondness for this type of stuff...damiens name would be at the top of the list. Or is it michael....a moron who actually changed his name to damien....kind of revealing what sort of boy we,re looking at. Damiens name was originally michael for anyone thst doesnt know. He actually changed it to damien...can anyone tell us why damien?

Again not evidence of the murders...but anyone that claims dsmien was picked up because he wore black and liked metalica....their very much mistaken. Anyone that hss any sort of partiality....must be honest with themselves and realise damien was picked up for good reason...and has to be the number one suspect based on his past demeanor and behaviours.

I'll buy this, but people leave out that Exhibit 500 was proffered by the defense mostly as a way to get out in front of a guilty verdict to introduce during sentencing. I'm not going to sit here and say I don't understand why Echols might have been on the radar, I just don't see a case.

Everything in Damien's psych history and his troubling behavior...NONE OF IT links him to the crime. Candle wax and fibers don't make the grade for me. Three long haired, drunk and stoned teenagers on a thrill kill triple homicide would have left something behind. Hell, even if you think the Hobbs and Jacoby hairs are secondary transfer, even THEY left something.

Also, they've been out for, what, 9 years now? Anyone think that THREE people that were capable of this at that young age, then spent 28 years in prison wouldn't have committed a similar crime by now? I doubt the ASP is a bastion of rehabilitation.

They're innocent.

 

[DHT1339]

I'll buy this, but people leave out that Exhibit 500 was proffered by the defense mostly as a way to get out in front of a guilty verdict to introduce during sentencing. I'm not going to sit here and say I don't understand why Echols might have been on the radar, I just don't see a case.

Everything in Damien's psych history and his troubling behavior...NONE OF IT links him to the crime. Candle wax and fibers don't make the grade for me. Three long haired, drunk and stoned teenagers on a thrill kill triple homicide would have left something behind. Hell, even if you think the Hobbs and Jacoby hairs are secondary transfer, even THEY left something.

Also, they've been out for, what, 9 years now? Anyone think that THREE people that were capable of this at that young age, then spent 28 years in prison wouldn't have committed a similar crime by now? I doubt the ASP is a bastion of rehabilitation.

They're innocent.

the candle wax could've come from any commercially sold candle. these people all shopped at the same stores. it wouldn't have been out of the ordinary for two families to own the same candle

the fibers are completely meaningless. even one of the state lab people (i think lisa sakevicius) said that there's no way to say the fibers came from one particular source, because there are countless items that would contain that same type of fiber

 

[7Wm3100]

the candle wax could've come from any commercially sold candle. these people all shopped at the same stores. it wouldn't have been out of the ordinary for two families to own the same candle

the fibers are completely meaningless. even one of the state lab people (i think lisa sakevicius) said that there's no way to say the fibers came from one particular source, because there are countless items that would contain that same type of fiber

Heres where it gets interesting tho........do wiccan rituals etc involve candles and robes. Why even is there candle wax at the scene anyway. Or fibres from a gown/robe.

As i found out the other night the significance of knots in wicca. Wonder why the kids we,re tied up using knots....its been an interesting question over the years. People have wondered why the boys we,re tied up. I,d ask people to research the significance of knots in the wiccan religion.

Personally this case is obvious...people just not willing to accept it.

We,ve have numerous accounts talking of animal sacrifice. Damien being involved in this sort of stuff etc. Satan worship. Wicca. Magick. Etc etc. People need to research this stuff more.

No doubt in my mind the police got the right guys...its just thst ignorance from peoples lead them to become free men. People really need to research this stuff more then see if it matches up. Too many coincidences for it to be anything other than a ritual. Stupid kids getting too involved in occults etc.

 

[herb4]

The film makers didn't "make" Byers do anything.

 

[reedus23]

It does reveal tho that the makers we,re happy to deceive people.

I m not sure about you but if someone is willing to deceive me once....i then are careful about how much stock i put into the rest. They missed out lots from them documentaries. Why not show both sides of the story.

From there we really need to fact check evety single thing they told us carefully. We cant just take what their telling us.

My friend, no opinions should be drawn from documentaries or books or movies or news articles. They all have one common goal...making $$$. Read the investigative reports and interviews and transcripts.

 

[Hathor16]

"
During his initial police interview, Echols stated that the killer probably urinated in one or more of the boys’ mouths, apropos of nothing.

Urine was later found in the stomachs of 2 of the victims, but that information was given by phone only to Gitchell, and not before May 16th, 1993. There is no possible way Damien Echols could have had case- specific information unless he was there or knew someone that was that told him what occurred, as the detective interviewing him at the time was clueless to that fact during the interview. At the time Damien mentioned this detail, no one would have known about this, except those directly involved with the crime. Damien attempted to explain this away by saying he was “thinking about what I would have done if I was the killer”. From the previously posted Thought Catolouge .

 

[claudicici]

"
During his initial police interview, Echols stated that the killer probably urinated in one or more of the boys’ mouths, apropos of nothing.

Urine was later found in the stomachs of 2 of the victims, but that information was given by phone only to Gitchell, and not before May 16th, 1993. There is no possible way Damien Echols could have had case- specific information unless he was there or knew someone that was that told him what occurred, as the detective interviewing him at the time was clueless to that fact during the interview. At the time Damien mentioned this detail, no one would have known about this, except those directly involved with the crime. Damien attempted to explain this away by saying he was “thinking about what I would have done if I was the killer”. From the previously posted Thought Catolouge .

That is not true Damien stated he was told by Steve that the boys testcles were cut off and the killer urinated in their mouth Damien Echols: Statements and Polygraph Reports (May 9-10, 1993)

 

[Hathor16]

Thank you for that, I was hoping someone would expand on that as I felt it was lacking something. I'll also be re- reading the timeline DE provided there

 

[herb4]

Byers was a good suspect and worth every look he got but, to me, was ultimately cleared by the lack of physical evidence and his overall timeline just doesn't work for me.