Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

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Interesting National Post article, quite lengthy -

The fight to keep the inheritance files of murdered billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman secret | National Post

A couple points that stood out for me -

KD was not privy to the private factum, nor the public.

“The secrecy imbued in the case continued Tuesday at the Supreme Court; lawyers for the Shermans’ estates filed two factums, a public one and private one for judicial eyes’ only.”

And this, there must to be more to the estate than the 4 trustees as named in the media or the public perception the estate involved equal division amongst only the four adult Sherman children. -

They said the files contain names and addresses of innocent parties, including children, and “also provide a link between certain of the affected individuals and the Shermans which would not otherwise be apparent.”

Agreed- I can't help but believe there is something startling in the estate documents. Perhaps a commentary on familial relationships, or perhaps named beneficiaries that extend beyond the children.
Interesting National Post article, quite lengthy -

The fight to keep the inheritance files of murdered billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman secret | National Post

A couple points that stood out for me -

KD was not privy to the private factum, nor the public.

“The secrecy imbued in the case continued Tuesday at the Supreme Court; lawyers for the Shermans’ estates filed two factums, a public one and private one for judicial eyes’ only.”

And this, there must to be more to the estate than the 4 trustees as named in the media or the public perception the estate involved equal division amongst only the four adult Sherman children. -

They said the files contain names and addresses of innocent parties, including children, and “also provide a link between certain of the affected individuals and the Shermans which would not otherwise be apparent.”

I'm sure the version for the judges set out the info that the estate feels would be potentially damaging if it was disclosed, as well as the reasons therefore.
 
So which criminal organization might be considered sophisticated?
rbbm.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-honey-sherman-court-estate-1.5752296
''Court speculates criminal organization responsible


Supreme Court Justice Michael Moldaver, who speculated that those responsible for the deaths of the Shermans belonged to a sophisticated criminal organization, questioned whether such a sealing order would have the effect of protecting identities.

"So it's fanciful to think that [the criminal organization] wouldn't know who the beneficiaries are, who the children are, who the grandchildren are and everything else about this family. And so what are we protecting?"

But Cseh said it is speculation to know who killed the couple.


"It could be the case that the murderer has all this information," she said. "But it could be the case that they don't.


"We are so confident that they are so sophisticated that they would have this information that we're willing to unseal the court files?"

If they are that sophisticated, they could contain this info if they wanted it.

I do find it interesting that Moldaver specifically termed it a "criminal organization". He specifically didn't say it was just an "organization". And he specifically didn't say they were just "sophisticated criminals." If the killers belonged to say Mossad (pure conjecture on my part), would Moldaver term Mossad a "criminal organization?" I doubt it.
He may not have any specific knowledge, but if he does, he seems to indicate that the killers were part of an organization of criminals, and in fact committed the murders as part of the criminal organization, and not an organization whose fundamental purpose is non criminal (like armed forces, Mossad, etc).. JMO
 
I don't think Joe Warmington has written a single word on this case in the Toronto Sun since December last year. At that time he stated in a radio interview that he felt that an arrest would be "coming very soon rather than later".
Update On Sherman File With Joe Warmington

Are his supposedly reliable inside police sources really remaining so silent on this case that he has nothing new to report? Or perhaps there just isn't enough progress to write about?
 
"sole fiduciary duty is to the company"
"one must protect intellectual property from theft, no matter what"
When I see comments like this posted, I wonder what has happened to ethical and moral duties.

This seems to be a societal problem, where money and property become the only determinent of correct action.

I believe, and history had proven, Apotex was at far greater risk of losing IP, through internal sources than external. Let's face it, a lot of money and effort will be spent using 'legality' to avoid responsibility for a horrible crime.

If there was a conscious effort to foil the TPS from having access to Barry's and Apotex files, that was inappropriate to say the least from a justice point of view.

Jack Kay was a senior officer, who was later fired by Jonathon Sherman. I wonder what Jack Kay's position was on giving access to the TPS? The answer to that question could be revealing.
I missed this discussion, sorry to revive if others feel it's been discussed enough.

Points to add:

I'm sure Apotex has very tight security of their own in terms of cameras, electronic locks that can register anyone going in or out, and a very serious security team. I think LE could rely on them to keep the office and it's contents secure.

Secondly, tampering with evidence in a murder investigation is a very serious crime and essentially paints you as guilty if you try it.

Finally, going through Barry's documents would be much more productive if the investigator already knew as much as possible about the business, any issues and all the people and their roles, etc.

That would come through interviews. The office search then could also verify the accuracy/perspective of the interviewees.

So, perhaps LE would have made a quick search after the murders, but I expect the thorough review of computer and office could wait.

JMO
 
Interesting National Post article, quite lengthy -

The fight to keep the inheritance files of murdered billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman secret | National Post

A couple points that stood out for me -

KD was not privy to the private factum, nor the public.

“The secrecy imbued in the case continued Tuesday at the Supreme Court; lawyers for the Shermans’ estates filed two factums, a public one and private one for judicial eyes’ only.”

And this, there must to be more to the estate than the 4 trustees as named in the media or the public perception the estate involved equal division amongst only the four adult Sherman children. -

They said the files contain names and addresses of innocent parties, including children, and (b)“also provide a link between certain of the affected individuals and the Shermans which would not otherwise be apparent.(/b)”

RBBM

Mystery heirs, maybe. Could it be the biological mother(s) of the three children?
 
Or maybe a cousin whom Barry reestablished a relationship with?

“Jeffrey Barkin told the Star recently that he has no interest in the ongoing dispute. “(Barry and Honey) did so much for the community, and I do not wish to diminish this,” he said.“
Barry Sherman’s cousin to undergo ‘disability’ assessment as billion-dollar appeal continues

I cannot explain or rationalize why the estate would be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep mr. barkin’s name out of the public. He has already been reported as being associated with the Sherman family.

The info or identities that the family wants to keep undisclosed imo must be personal to the family members including the children. It has been indicated that the person(s) are not known to be associated with the Sherman’s. Surrogate(s) seem like a logical answer to me.
 
I cannot explain or rationalize why the estate would be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to keep mr. barkin’s name out of the public. He has already been reported as being associated with the Sherman family.

The info or identities that the family wants to keep undisclosed imo must be personal to the family members including the children. It has been indicated that the person(s) are not known to be associated with the Sherman’s. Surrogate(s) seem like a logical answer to me.

“ Not associated” is not the quote from my earlier link. It said - and “also provide a link between certain of the affected individuals and the Shermans which would not otherwise be apparent.”

Other than KW the other cousins have remained silent about KW leading the 10+ year aggressive legal battle against Barry, so we don’t know the situation other than Jeffrey reportedly dropped out. So if one or more (hypothetically) of the cousins became a benefactor in Barry’s Will that certainly wouldn’t be an apparent link as publicly KW made it appear B was cruel, devious and heartless toward each of them. Was he? We know of the feud between Barry and KW but not much of anything regarding the others, including the relationship between KW and his 2 other brothers, both who took the Barkin name.

But regardless we’re simply brainstorming, nobody’s right or wrong.
 
“ Not associated” is not the quote from my earlier link. It said - and “also provide a link between certain of the affected individuals and the Shermans which would not otherwise be apparent.”

Other than KW the other cousins have remained silent about KW leading the 10+ year aggressive legal battle against Barry, so we don’t know the situation other than Jeffrey reportedly dropped out. So if one or more (hypothetically) of the cousins became a benefactor in Barry’s Will that certainly wouldn’t be an apparent link as publicly KW made it appear B was cruel, devious and heartless toward each of them. Was he? We know of the feud between Barry and KW but not much of anything regarding the others, including the relationship between KW and his 2 other brothers, both who took the Barkin name.

But regardless we’re simply brainstorming, nobody’s right or wrong.
 
.

My thoughts thus far


1 -- Toronto police have never said they are focusing on one particular suspect (understandable)

2 -- Yet , as I read between the lines , some hints that they are indeed focusing on something (someone) in particular.

3 -- When questioned by media they claim to be busy going through huge amounts of electronic type data. (makes sense)

4 -- Wildcard .... maybe they have nothing .... Police chief has retired ... most detectives appear to have moved on to other cases ... after 3 years of nothing can we call it a cold case ?
........

I am leaning toward # 4 ... I would love to hear everybody else's opinions or guesses .

thanks
 
“ Not associated” is not the quote from my earlier link. It said - and “also provide a link between certain of the affected individuals and the Shermans which would not otherwise be apparent.”

Other than KW the other cousins have remained silent about KW leading the 10+ year aggressive legal battle against Barry, so we don’t know the situation other than Jeffrey reportedly dropped out. So if one or more (hypothetically) of the cousins became a benefactor in Barry’s Will that certainly wouldn’t be an apparent link as publicly KW made it appear B was cruel, devious and heartless toward each of them. Was he? We know of the feud between Barry and KW but not much of anything regarding the others, including the relationship between KW and his 2 other brothers, both who took the Barkin name.

But regardless we’re simply brainstorming, nobody’s right or wrong.
I think it's possible there's nothing very dramatic or surprising in the will, but instead the family could be just intensely resentful of the media attention and KD in particular (though I expect JW of the Sun is not on their Christimas card list either).

"They characterized the media’s interest as puerile, only because of the Shermans’ “wealth and the circumstances of their death,” and the sealed files should remain “a private matter.”"
The fight to keep the inheritance files of murdered billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman secret | National Post

And since the crime is unsolved, and probably relates to the Sherman's wealth, there is a sense that anyone named in the will, could become the target of speculation as a possible perpetrator. Or, in theory, could be targeted by the murderer(s), either physically, or perhaps someone going after their share of the estate through litigation.

But I think it's primarily just to block KD. I agree with Misty, I rather see the crime solved and perps in court, than read a reporter's bits and pieces of facts and speculation.

JMO
 
.

My thoughts thus far


1 -- Toronto police have never said they are focusing on one particular suspect (understandable)

2 -- Yet , as I read between the lines , some hints that they are indeed focusing on something (someone) in particular.

3 -- When questioned by media they claim to be busy going through huge amounts of electronic type data. (makes sense)

4 -- Wildcard .... maybe they have nothing .... Police chief has retired ... most detectives appear to have moved on to other cases ... after 3 years of nothing can we call it a cold case ?
........

I am leaning toward # 4 ... I would love to hear everybody else's opinions or guesses .

thanks
I think there is a lot of room between having 'nothing' and being able to arrest someone, or several someones.

IMO the officer is probably going through video recordings to try to pinpoint who physically approached and then left the house, and where they originally came from and where they went.

IMO that would mean reviewing commercial and doorbell footage, from all the streets around the house, over a period of many hours that night. IMO it would include tracking any vehicle or pedestrian that ended up passing by Colony Road, to eliminate it from the search...that work could take a very long time. And if they find a suspicious person or vehicle, then they would need to track where they came from and where they went, to try to identify them.

Also, trying to track the movement of any potential suspects who don't have a air-tight alibis.

Possibly also cell tower records of all the phones pinging in the area during that time period, or phones of potential suspects.
 
I think there is a lot of room between having 'nothing' and being able to arrest someone, or several someones.

IMO the officer is probably going through video recordings to try to pinpoint who physically approached and then left the house, and where they originally came from and where they went.

IMO that would mean reviewing commercial and doorbell footage, from all the streets around the house, over a period of many hours that night. IMO it would include tracking any vehicle or pedestrian that ended up passing by Colony Road, to eliminate it from the search...that work could take a very long time. And if they find a suspicious person or vehicle, then they would need to track where they came from and where they went, to try to identify them.

Also, trying to track the movement of any potential suspects who don't have a air-tight alibis.

Possibly also cell tower records of all the phones pinging in the area during that time period, or phones of potential suspects.

Interesting article- The following statement struck home

“...A Washington Post examination of 8,000 homicide arrests across 25 major U.S. cities since 2007 found that in half of the cases, an arrest was made in 10 days or fewer......for cases that remained unsolved after one year, 5 percent ultimately led to an arrest...”
RBBM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...ff6aa2-fe93-11e8-ad40-cdfd0e0dd65a_story.html

I think Satchie has hit the nail on the head intentionally or not, when he wrote “ the officer”. I recall that TPS has redeployed it’s full time resources to other cases, and that there is one full time officer assigned to this case, and investigators are only brought into the Sherman case as required. This is also consistent with the police practices as stated in the article ( you will recall mr. Arntfield, who is quoted in the article, coincidentally was interviewed by CTV and other news outlets regarding the Sherman case in the early days of the investigation:

“... In recent years, many police departments have reduced manpower and resources devoted to solving older cold cases, said criminologist Michael Arntfield, a co-director of the Murder Accountability Project. What used to be a cold-case unit are more likely just a cold-case detective,” said Arntfield, who founded the Cold Case Society, which helps police departments review unsolved killings.

“...You try to put your resources where you have a higher probability of solving your cases,” said Oklahoma City Police Chief Bill Citty, whose department has one cold-case investigator. “And that’s going to be, you know, a newer case....”

By now I have to believe tps has reviewed all the tapes and looked at the cell phone records and interviewed who they need to interview. It’s coming up to 3 years now.
 
.

My thoughts thus far


1 -- Toronto police have never said they are focusing on one particular suspect (understandable)

2 -- Yet , as I read between the lines , some hints that they are indeed focusing on something (someone) in particular.

3 -- When questioned by media they claim to be busy going through huge amounts of electronic type data. (makes sense)

4 -- Wildcard .... maybe they have nothing .... Police chief has retired ... most detectives appear to have moved on to other cases ... after 3 years of nothing can we call it a cold case ?
........

I am leaning toward # 4 ... I would love to hear everybody else's opinions or guesses .

thanks

Because of the continued media and public interest, and the fact that a TPS investigator is assigned full time to the case, I do not believe this can be called a cold case. In many investigations, especially in conspiracies and organised criminal organizations, the cases tke many years before they come to trial.

I think most will agree this crime was perpetrated by a sophisticated and well organised group of one or more individuals. To be able to achieve a conviction, let alone lay charges, the TPS will have to be extremely diligent.

When charges are laid, you can rest assured that the defense will introduce alternative scenarios to create reasonable doubt. The TPS will have to say they investigated these alternatives just as diligently and they were not plausible.

On this site alone a number of alternative theories have been laid out. I can even envision a smart defense lawyer presenting the murder-suicide scenario to create doubt, to avoid conviction of his client(s)
 
Because of the continued media and public interest, and the fact that a TPS investigator is assigned full time to the case, I do not believe this can be called a cold case. In many investigations, especially in conspiracies and organised criminal organizations, the cases tke many years before they come to trial.

I think most will agree this crime was perpetrated by a sophisticated and well organised group of one or more individuals. To be able to achieve a conviction, let alone lay charges, the TPS will have to be extremely diligent.

When charges are laid, you can rest assured that the defense will introduce alternative scenarios to create reasonable doubt. The TPS will have to say they investigated these alternatives just as diligently and they were not plausible.

On this site alone a number of alternative theories have been laid out. I can even envision a smart defense lawyer presenting the murder-suicide scenario to create doubt, to avoid conviction of his client(s)

If each individual member of the TPS homicide squad were permanently assigned to only one homicide case, then a new hire would have to be recruited whenever a new homicide occurred. Instead that team members rotate on a needs basis is how every modern day unit manages resourcing in virtually every workplace environment whether it be policing, medical, or emergency response.

I agree, that even one member is assigned full time is very much indicative the case is far from cold. The fact that the investigation has been recently confirmed as “active and ongoing ” is undoubtedly a disappointment to the killer/s.

The fight to keep the inheritance files of murdered billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman secret | National Post
Oct7, 2020
“Toronto police spokeswoman Meaghan Gray told National Post their investigation of the Shermans’ murders “is active and ongoing.” She confirmed that Yim is assigned full time to the case but said other investigators assist while juggling other investigations....”
 
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Barry and Honey Sherman murders' newest twist: family and police join forces - Macleans.ca
“Today, Idsinga spoke of the police being “in daily communication with members of the Sherman family” and that police “have a very good relation with them now.” He praised the family, saying they “have been terrific with us, very cooperative.” Asked by a reporter if the family had fired the Greenspan team, Idsinga refused to answer: “That’s a question for the Sherman family.”......

......Yet Idsinga also didn’t hesitate to speak on behalf of the family: “The Sherman family thank the public and media for continuing support,” he said, adding that they asked for their privacy to be respected. It was “damaging to read about speculation in the media,” Idsinga said on behalf of the family before thanking them: “I would like to thank Sherman family for their continuing support.” Exactly when that “continuing support” began—and why—add two more unanswered questions to add to the pile.”.....
 
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Because of the continued media and public interest, and the fact that a TPS investigator is assigned full time to the case, I do not believe this can be called a cold case. In many investigations, especially in conspiracies and organised criminal organizations, the cases tke many years before they come to trial.

I think most will agree this crime was perpetrated by a sophisticated and well organised group of one or more individuals. To be able to achieve a conviction, let alone lay charges, the TPS will have to be extremely diligent.

When charges are laid, you can rest assured that the defense will introduce alternative scenarios to create reasonable doubt. The TPS will have to say they investigated these alternatives just as diligently and they were not plausible.

On this site alone a number of alternative theories have been laid out. I can even envision a smart defense lawyer presenting the murder-suicide scenario to create doubt, to avoid conviction of his client(s)

It appears that the TPS website classifies all unsolved murders from 2016 and before as cold cases.
If the Sherman case isn’t solved in another year, it will be classified as a cold case according to tps’ practice.
 
FWIW HS is listed as homicide #65 on the TPS website in 2017. BS is shown as homicide #64. I wonder if this is an indication that TPS has concluded that BS was murdered before HS.
 
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