Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #84

Status
Not open for further replies.
This study has been criticized--- so as far as I am concerned the jury is still out--it seemed to work for Trump- along with two other drugs.

The problem is that one cannot tell which drug worked, unless the treatments are not comingled.

There is no jury here, except the ones who review for publication. Remdesivir had to be studied in double blind conditions, and it was. It doesn't work.

What worked for Trump was almost certainly the monoclonal antibodies (it's like getting convalescent plasma). He was not sick enough to benefit from the steroid, IMO.

At any rate, it's irrelevant to most of us, because we wouldn't be able to get remdesivir except under the most dire conditions.

The double blind study is the most convincing evidence we have on this anti-viral.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007764

I'll take that scientific evidence over any anecdotal evidence, any day.
 
I think Congress is planning to hold social media accountable for its censorship, based on recent developments, so hopefully this will be addressed as well.
Funny that Twitter did not censor WHO early on for their mask policy. I mean WHO must have known what was working in China, Hong Kong and Singapore early in the pandemic.
 
Most people will get more money back using standard deductions rather than itemizing.

Perhaps. But if a person is now working from a home they own, on which they pay a mortgage, that is not the case. Many, many homeowning, middle class workers are now working from home (and many of us had to buy things to do that).

We weren't talking about most people - we were talking about those of us whose employers require us to work from home.
 
<modsnipped quoted post>

As mentioned above, you have the premise wrong.

BTW, California is not in the top (it's #27) on the list of overall deaths per million - so that's wrong too. Did you use total cases instead of deaths?

In any case, California is below average on both counts - whereas, on cases, right now, well - just sort the worldometer data by cases per capita and then by deaths per capita - which is what we were talking about. Naturally, very large states will have a raw total that's higher than a place like North Dakota.

So...not sure what you're showing, but it's not the same as the per capita death charts we've been discussing.

United States Coronavirus: 8,357,758 Cases and 224,444 Deaths - Worldometer
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Perhaps. But if a person is now working from a home they own, on which they pay a mortgage, that is not the case. Many, many homeowning, middle class workers are now working from home (and many of us had to buy things to do that).

We weren't talking about most people - we were talking about those of us whose employers require us to work from home.
In UK if you work from home you can deduct about a fifth of everything if you are using a fifth of your house, for example. Electric, oil/gas, rates, mortgage/rent ,insurance, phone, wifi, laptop or computer etc. anyuthing you buy exclusively for your employment, you can claim 100%.
 
As cases rise again, second thoughts on another lockdown - The Boston Globe
Sbm /more at link

Avoiding that scenario is fairly straightforward: Test as many people as possible; locate the source of outbreaks and trace and quarantine those who have been exposed to the virus; target high-risk settings with public health restrictions and prioritize keeping open settings that serve public interest, such as schools.

In Massachusetts, even as many in the scientific community express concern about rising numbers of infections and hospitalizations, few call for a return to spring or summer restrictions. But, experts warned, a lighter-touch approach will only be effective if Baker and other officials work hard to keep the public informed, united, and compliant.

“Communication is an important part of showing people that the governor is looking at the numbers and responding to them,” said Dr. Sarah Fortune, chair of the department of immunology and infectious diseases at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. “There’s a huge tension between giving people so much information that it compromises others’ privacy and giving them enough information that they are able to feel safe.”

For the public, the scientific thinking away from total shutdowns may seem confusing, as sheltering in place remains the most visible and familiar way to limit COVID-19′s spread.

A World Health Organization official, Dr. David Nabarro, encountered this disconnect earlier this month when he advocated for a “middle path” approach to controlling the pandemic. “We really do have to learn how to coexist with this virus in a way that doesn’t require constant closing down of economies, but at the same time in a way that is not associated with high levels of suffering and death,” Nabarro said in an interviewwith British news source The Spectator.

Some, including President Trump, took Nabarro’s comment to mean that shutdowns were never justified. But scientists argue that the viability of a “middle path” is proof that staying home in March, April, and May worked.

“In the spring, we just didn’t even know what was going on. . . . You really have no other option at that point other than to just shut everything down,” said Helen Jenkins, a Boston University epidemiologist. “You then use that time while you’re shut down,” Jenkins said, to learn more about how a new virus spreads and then get to work tracking and containing it.

"We’ve learned a lot since March when we implemented these shutdowns,” said Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and visiting professor at the George Washington University’s Milken School of Public Health, “including about what are the targeted measures that we can apply that would have less of an impact on the economy and still have a significant impact on reducing infections.”

Experts said we have also learned that shutdowns carry significant consequences of their own — not only for the economy, but also for public health. Many people suffer from isolation, and those who have health care needs unrelated to COVID-19 may be afraid of going to the doctor or unable to access their usual services.

Shutdowns remain an important tool if COVID-19 spread becomes rampant and hospitals risk being overrun, but scientists say we need not reach that point again.

Public adherence to behaviors that minimize risk can help contain outbreaks, said Wen, who prior to her post at George Washington served as Baltimore’s city health commissioner. She noted that some reports suggest that private gatherings of friends and family, not unsafe workplaces or public settings, are primarily driving the current surge in COVID-19 cases across the United States.

“Policy interventions can only go so far. At some point, we need individuals to do their part,” she said.
 
The problem is that one cannot tell which drug worked, unless the treatments are not comingled.

There is no jury here, except the ones who review for publication. Remdesivir had to be studied in double blind conditions, and it was. It doesn't work.

What worked for Trump was almost certainly the monoclonal antibodies (it's like getting convalescent plasma). He was not sick enough to benefit from the steroid, IMO.

At any rate, it's irrelevant to most of us, because we wouldn't be able to get remdesivir except under the most dire conditions.

The double blind study is the most convincing evidence we have on this anti-viral.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007764

I'll take that scientific evidence over any anecdotal evidence, any day.
Thanks for the nejm article.

Do you know at what level of severity one is given the monoclonal antibodies? Is the number of recipients still really low? I am just wondering when we are going to get more definitive information regarding this therapy.

monoclonal antibodies (it's like getting convalescent plasma)
 
Australia's leadership were also adversarial with WHO and requested an investigation which is in progress. So it is not as simple as that IMO. Mexico also signed up to that plan and have been severely affected by Covid too.

Adversarial maybe, but not sure any investigation is going to argue with less than 1000 deaths...what matters more? People or money?
 
Perhaps. But if a person is now working from a home they own, on which they pay a mortgage, that is not the case. Many, many homeowning, middle class workers are now working from home (and many of us had to buy things to do that).

We weren't talking about most people - we were talking about those of us whose employers require us to work from home.


When the tax laws changed in 2017, those deductions were discontinued.
 
Gee, I think that's because people are looking for comparison superspreaders. Just like the protesters...people want them to look bad, when they were not.

Why? When we need Americans and the world to work together.

The masking is scientifically proven to be the number one condition to practice in a pandemic. That it became so political is not the fault of the scientists.

They were using masks in the 1918 flu epidemic for goodness sake-- even then they knew it made sense-- i guess we have come so far in 100 years that we can't figure out that masks act as a barrier to keep out virus and germs as much as possible. Is anything 100% ? probably not- but in conjunction with distancing and hand washing, it was the best they had in 1918 and apparently still is.
 
As mentioned above, you have the premise wrong.

BTW, California is not in the top (it's #27) on the list of overall deaths per million - so that's wrong too. Did you use total cases instead of deaths?

In any case, California is below average on both counts - whereas, on cases, right now, well - just sort the worldometer data by cases per capita and then by deaths per capita - which is what we were talking about. Naturally, very large states will have a raw total that's higher than a place like North Dakota.

So...not sure what you're showing, but it's not the same as the per capita death charts we've been discussing.

United States Coronavirus: 8,357,758 Cases and 224,444 Deaths - Worldometer
I am looking at total deaths per state from the worldometers total death column. The top 10 states listed direct from WorldoM come to 148k deaths out of 225k, 109k blue states 39k red states in the top ten. CA has the third highest number of total deaths after NY and Texas.
 
As cases rise again, second thoughts on another lockdown - The Boston Globe
Sbm /more at link

Avoiding that scenario is fairly straightforward: Test as many people as possible; locate the source of outbreaks and trace and quarantine those who have been exposed to the virus; target high-risk settings with public health restrictions and prioritize keeping open settings that serve public interest, such as schools.

In Massachusetts, even as many in the scientific community express concern about rising numbers of infections and hospitalizations, few call for a return to spring or summer restrictions. But, experts warned, a lighter-touch approach will only be effective if Baker and other officials work hard to keep the public informed, united, and compliant.

“Communication is an important part of showing people that the governor is looking at the numbers and responding to them,” said Dr. Sarah Fortune, chair of the department of immunology and infectious diseases at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. “There’s a huge tension between giving people so much information that it compromises others’ privacy and giving them enough information that they are able to feel safe.”

For the public, the scientific thinking away from total shutdowns may seem confusing, as sheltering in place remains the most visible and familiar way to limit COVID-19′s spread.

A World Health Organization official, Dr. David Nabarro, encountered this disconnect earlier this month when he advocated for a “middle path” approach to controlling the pandemic. “We really do have to learn how to coexist with this virus in a way that doesn’t require constant closing down of economies, but at the same time in a way that is not associated with high levels of suffering and death,” Nabarro said in an interviewwith British news source The Spectator.

Some, including President Trump, took Nabarro’s comment to mean that shutdowns were never justified. But scientists argue that the viability of a “middle path” is proof that staying home in March, April, and May worked.

“In the spring, we just didn’t even know what was going on. . . . You really have no other option at that point other than to just shut everything down,” said Helen Jenkins, a Boston University epidemiologist. “You then use that time while you’re shut down,” Jenkins said, to learn more about how a new virus spreads and then get to work tracking and containing it.

"We’ve learned a lot since March when we implemented these shutdowns,” said Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and visiting professor at the George Washington University’s Milken School of Public Health, “including about what are the targeted measures that we can apply that would have less of an impact on the economy and still have a significant impact on reducing infections.”

Experts said we have also learned that shutdowns carry significant consequences of their own — not only for the economy, but also for public health. Many people suffer from isolation, and those who have health care needs unrelated to COVID-19 may be afraid of going to the doctor or unable to access their usual services.

Shutdowns remain an important tool if COVID-19 spread becomes rampant and hospitals risk being overrun, but scientists say we need not reach that point again.

Public adherence to behaviors that minimize risk can help contain outbreaks, said Wen, who prior to her post at George Washington served as Baltimore’s city health commissioner. She noted that some reports suggest that private gatherings of friends and family, not unsafe workplaces or public settings, are primarily driving the current surge in COVID-19 cases across the United States.

“Policy interventions can only go so far. At some point, we need individuals to do their part,” she said.

This is a great article, thanks for posting. Wish we had it to deflate all our crazy tback and forth about shutdowns/Barrington/WHO etc....

Shutdowns remain an important tool if COVID-19 spread becomes rampant and hospitals risk being overrun, but scientists say we need not reach that point again.



Million Dollar Question: How do we not reach that point.
 
Massive WHO remdesivir study suggests no Covid-19 benefit. Doctors aren't so sure.

The new study — which included data from more than 11,200 people in 30 countries — is the result of the World Health Organization's Solidarity trial. It was published online Thursday on the preprint server medRxiv, meaning it has not been peer-reviewed.


Dr. Andre Kalil, a principal investigator for the NIH trial at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, said the Solidarity trial lacked some of the basics critical to scientific research: "No data monitoring, no placebo, no double-blinding, no diagnostic confirmation of infection."

"Poor-quality study design cannot be fixed by a large sample size, no matter how large it is," Kalil told NBC News.

Massive WHO remdesivir study suggests no Covid-19 benefit. Doctors aren't so sure.
 
Sweden is moving away from its no-lockdown strategy and preparing strict new rules amid rising coronavirus cases

Sweden will shift away from its early coronavirus strategy of opting against lockdown measures and instead embrace restrictive measures adopted by most of its neighbors amid growing case numbers in the country.

Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist, is set to meet with local health officials next week to discuss which measures to put into place in response to outbreaks in the capital Stockholm and nearby city Uppsala, The Telegraph newspaper reported.
 
Potential coronavirus exposure reported on 2 Air Canada flights from Toronto to Halifax
Maybe the folks who ARE wearing masks do so because they understand it's about protecting others, and those who choose NOT to wear masks believe it's only about protecting themselves?

Because if a person understands that masks are about protecting others and still decide NOT to wear them, does that mean they truly don't care about others?

I can't count the number of times I've said "It's not about YOU" this year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
125
Guests online
4,306
Total visitors
4,431

Forum statistics

Threads
592,404
Messages
17,968,459
Members
228,767
Latest member
Mona Lisa
Back
Top