Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[StarryStarryNight]

Can you say that conclusively? I mean, would you bet your life on it? Did it ever cross your mind that both sketches are accurate while BG and the guy in the second scratch were in cahoots? Complete speculation, I know, but we may know about five percent of the whole story with the evidence which has been released. Investigators probably know about thirty percent of what happened, substantially higher if the murder is on audio. If it indeed was, then police know for sure if there were multiple offenders, but they could be deceiving the public to get the suspect or suspects complacent and chattery.

I believe at the April 2019 press conference LE, rather emphatically, stated, before playing the expanded audio, that this was the voice of one person. One person was speaking and they wanted everyone to know that. They also have the video, so I feel certain they know, without a doubt, that is one person accosting the girls at the bridge and saying the words, “Guys...down the hill“. I can think of absolutely no reason for LE to be lying about this.

 

[MistyWaters]

I believe at the April 2019 press conference LE, rather emphatically, stated, before playing the expanded audio, that this was the voice of one person. One person was speaking and they wanted everyone to know that. They also have the video, so I feel certain they know, without a doubt, that is one person accosting the girls at the bridge and saying the words, “Guys...down the hill“. I can think of absolutely no reason for LE to be lying about this.

I agree.

As you say LE would have no reason to lie. If someone knows the identity of the suspect and thinks his voice sounds more like the audio of “down the hill” than “guys”, I’m sure LE would still be interested as it’s obvious from just listening to the recording from Libby’s cellphone, it’s is not crystal clear compared to, say a telephone conversation.

I think it’s important to remember the few facts released by LE have been deliberately revealed only to garner tips as to the identity of the killer, not to aid the general public in building a narrative of what actually occurred that day.

 

[Ontario Mom]

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Thanks everyone

 

[Falling Down]

I think that’s a strong possibility, the killer watching for potential victims while just sitting on a bench. Loitering or circling small portions of the trail back and forth would attract far more attention than a single male sitting on a bench. It would appear he was either taking a rest or was waiting to meet up with his hiking partner, exactly the purpose of benches and hardly an activity that attracts much attention. People generally do not stare at someone sitting on a bench, while the sitter has the advantage of watching everyone who passes by.

I agree with all of this as possibilities, and...

The timing stuff I did I think confirms he had more than enough time to change his appearance, "load up" with stuff underneath that shell jacket, etc., in the minutes after he saw the girls.

He had more than enough time to walk back to a vehicle from that bench, get ready, then walk back to the bridge. He could have walked back to a vehicle, gotten ready, and been on the bridge in under 25 minutes.

The girls were dropped off at around 1:37, I think he had 35-40 minutes to get ready, get back to the bridge, and to start crossing it.

I think it was roughly 40 minutes or so from when he saw them, to the "Guys" comment in the audio.

Also, in February it would have been really easy for him to walk from the main trail to the CS to prep it in the hours before the murders, if that's what he did. Versus the warm months when the vegetation is in abundance in that gorge.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

Interesting that many posters consider Indiana part of the Bible Belt, but with a quick google search, I didn’t see any sites that include it at all. Maybe just the absolute southern tip, but not near Delphi.

Yes, but Rusty Belt sounds worse...

 

[rosesfromangels]

This is interesting:
Indiana Crime Rates 1960 to 2019
What jumped out is the 41% increase in rapes the year the girls were murdered, from 1,851 rapes in 2016 to 2,612 rapes in 2017. I am still trying to find how many arrests for rapes in 2017, and how many unsolved.
This increase in rapes in the same year the children were murdered seems notable.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Charlot123]

So I'm new to this thread and am trying to catch up, as I live in Indiana (about an hour from Delphi) and am somewhat familiar with this case (though admittedly haven't followed it closely). I've scanned through the media thread, but am curious as to what the prevailing thought (if there is one) seems to be on the forum:

I know initially the belief the BG was likely from the Delphi area, or at least very familiar with it. Is this still what LE seems to be leaning toward?

Is there any clarity on the DNA situation? I watched the Genetic Detective earlier this year and thought about this case - seems like it would be a perfect scenario for that approach - does the lack of progress there seem to indicate the lack of a full DNA profile?

Just my suspicion as I am mostly interested in DNA genealogy- there is “some” DNA, and there probably were plans to send it to Parabon, but something stood in the way. Either this DNA is suspicious, but its presence at the CS can be somehow explained away, or the “interesting” DNA is partial (but DNA detectives might still be working with it), or, maybe, it was the case of a nonpaternal event - that with partial DNA is not helpful at all. But these are my theories. We may still hear about the DNA in the case. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

This is interesting:
Indiana Crime Rates 1960 to 2019

These are Indiana crime rates from 1960-2019.
What jumped out is the 41% increase in rapes the year the girls were murdered, from 1,851 rapes in 2016 to 2,612 rapes in 2017. I am still trying to find how many arrests for rapes in 2017, and how many unsolved.
This increase in rapes in the same year the children were murdered seems notable.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I was reading about the economics of Indiana today. It seems that while IN looks better than in most other Midwestern areas in general, there is an increase in “micro” areas with poverty, and childhood poverty. It should be somehow tied up to the increase in crime rates that you quote. It would be interesting to see what areas provide most contributions (if Gary or Indianapolis, unsurprising). But I wonder if these “micro” areas of poverty provide the bigger contribution. There should be some connection, and if there is none, then a new, unaccounted for, factor had emerged. Or, better reporting. October of 2017 was the beginning of “me too” movement, this could have removed the victims’ shame and self-blaming, made them more proactive. MOO

 

[rosesfromangels]

I was reading about the economics of Indiana today. It seems that while IN looks better than in most other Midwestern areas in general, there is an increase in “micro” areas with poverty, and childhood poverty. It should be somehow tied up to the increase in crime rates that you quote. It would be interesting to see what areas provide most contributions (if Gary or Indianapolis, unsurprising). But I wonder if these “micro” areas of poverty provide the bigger contribution. There should be some connection, and if there is none, then a new, unaccounted for, factor had emerged. Or, better reporting. October of 2017 was the beginning of “me too” movement, this could have removed the victims’ shame and self-blaming, made them more proactive. MOO

I can figure that out, I think, by looking at city-data. They typically report to that degree. You are likely right, that any inner city would be the bigger contributor. However, if we see pockets of rape activity in outlier areas, we may just very well be seeing the trace steps of our Perp......

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Charlot123]

I agree, I think he was hanging around, watching people, and could have been at either bench.

After I encountered the elderly couple on the Girard Trail, I was soon to be alone out there, down in the gorge.

Walking back up the trail, and on to the main trail, nobody else was there.

It was only when I headed back to my vehicle that I encountered two couples at the trailhead by the Freedom Bridge. This was late on a Sunday afternoon.

I'd imagine on a normal work day the trail traffic would be sporadic and that not many people visit.

JMO

I wonder if he was “hunting” for the girls for several days, knowing that sooner or later they would go to the bridge? This could explain LE’s “even on his first day”. Maybe he was waiting for them for several days in a row, doing something that could explain his presence there?

 

[Charlot123]

I can figure that out, I think, by looking at city-data. They typically report to that degree. You are likely right, that any inner city would be the bigger contributor. However, if we see pockets of rape activity in outlier areas, we may just very well be seeing the trace steps of our Perp......

Amateur opinion and speculation

Yes! Or, of a new group into that “hobby”, for lack of a better word.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes! Or, of a new group into that “hobby”, for lack of a better word.

This is what I would ask the Delphi P.D., and likely questions they have already been examining:

1. There was a 41% increase in rapes in Indiana in 2017, the year the girls were murdered. Have you created a "heat map" of the locations of those rapes? Did you derive any particular insights from that heat map?
2. Did you create a demographic profile of the rape victims? Did you derive any particular insights from that or see any patterns?
3. Did you note any particular pattern to the time of day the crimes were committed, or the dates?
4. Did you note any particular similarities to the location of the rapes? Parks, etc.
5. Is there any notable pattern with regard to the race, age, height, and weight of the victims? (Their physical appearance)
6. What did the victims all have in common? Did they all go to church, school, played softball, or?

That's a few questions for starters....
I truly think this is where we should be looking. The patterns, those rapes.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

I wonder if he was “hunting” for the girls for several days, knowing that sooner or later they would go to the bridge? This could explain LE’s “even on his first day”. Maybe he was waiting for them for several days in a row, doing something that could explain his presence there?

BBM. That's a very astute question.
What was going on in that area at that time? Deer hunting season? annual gathering of bird watchers? What season was it, and what was permitted in that area at that time of year?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if he was “hunting” for the girls for several days, knowing that sooner or later they would go to the bridge? This could explain LE’s “even on his first day”. Maybe he was waiting for them for several days in a row, doing something that could explain his presence there?

“This could explain LE’s “even on his first day”.”

I don’t recall this comment by LE at all. What is it referring to? Please provide a link if you don’t mind.

 

[Charlot123]

“This could explain LE’s “even on his first day”.”

I don’t recall this comment by LE at all. What is it referring to? Please provide a link if you don’t mind.

it was DC’s phrase related to Mary Gerard. I think the same where he said, that if only they took the right (or left) road. I am trying to find it (between all these podcasts and interviews).

ETA: I think it was in DTH podcast. Yes, “even on his first day, he stood right here...”

And also, something about if the girls turned right (or left - sorry, I am not a 3D person, for me the topography itself makes no use). But whatever, what he meant, if they took another trail, not to the bridge, they’d avoid him.


From this, it follows that: his presence on the trailheads, even for five days (arbitrary) would be unsurprising.

And also, there was a higher chance of meeting him on the bridge??

And this reminds me of the bridge’s condition... DC said about the ties being rotten, and Kelsi repeated it, too.

What if this guy was replacing the ties? That could explain having, say, a knife and ropes. Or some other parts of the bridge?

Either this, or he lived on the S side. I have no other explanation to the person being on the bridge, and no one caring or asking questions.

 

[Jax49]

I don't have a link either, but there was lots of discussion back in February, and posters couldn't even agree on what was said.

Here's one example.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

 

[Charlot123]

I don't have a link either, but there was lots of discussion back in February, and posters couldn't even agree on what was said.

Here's one example.

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

Thank you!

 

[Charlot123]

I was looking for DC speaking about the bridge (could not find it, but found an article in Purdue newspaper).

A new path

it is about Kelsi, and the bridge, and the effect of the murders on Delphi. I hope it is mainstream as they interview Kelsi.

And again, some dichotomy.

In the same part, “When the girls were found gone, dead, everybody in the community — all of our hearts broke at the exact same time,” Delaney said when we spoke later that day. “It was too personal. They took our kids.”

And then about the perp who needs “serious *advertiser censored*-whooping”.

So why when they found the girls, they thought about “them”, and now, “him”?

What has changed?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

it was DC’s phrase related to Mary Gerard. I think the same where he said, that if only they took the right (or left) road. I am trying to find it (between all these podcasts and interviews).

ETA: I think it was in DTH podcast. Yes, “even on his first day, he stood right here...”

And also, something about if the girls turned right (or left - sorry, I am not a 3D person, for me the topography itself makes no use). But whatever, what he meant, if they took another trail, not to the bridge, they’d avoid him.


From this, it follows that: his presence on the trailheads, even for five days (arbitrary) would be unsurprising.

And also, there was a higher chance of meeting him on the bridge??

And this reminds me of the bridge’s condition... DC said about the ties being rotten, and Kelsi repeated it, too.

What if this guy was replacing the ties? That could explain having, say, a knife and ropes. Or some other parts of the bridge?

Either this, or he lived on the S side. I have no other explanation to the person being on the bridge, and no one caring or asking questions.

I doubt the killer was out there fixing things on the bridge. If I remember right, the bridge was not part of the trail system at that time. I think it was still owned by the railroad company. I don’t think anybody would be out there working without their permission.

 

[Ozoner]

Yes, but Rusty Belt sounds worse...

The phrase "rusty belt" gave me a chuckle because it brought to mind a chastity belt, which is the only kind of belt I could think of that could rust.

Here in the Midwest we use the term "rust belt" (as opposed to "rusty belt").