Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

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You know where it says "active member" under your screen name? There are some posters here who are LE and who've gone through the verification process with Websleuths. So it'll say "verified LE" in that spot and you'll know who they are. Sometimes lawyers and other specialties choose to be verified as well.
Thanks, being that I’m so new with this case, although I’m a pioneer here (a member since the original site in 2003), I knew that, but was hoping you knew which of them has contributed to the discussion, since it seems you’re old hat, with this case, so to speak. I’d love to see what any verified professionals on this case think, but so far I have only seen one member that is an image pro. Thanks all the same.
 
Thanks, being that I’m so new with this case, although I’m a pioneer here (a member since the original site in 2003), I knew that, but was hoping you knew which of them has contributed to the discussion, since it seems you’re old hat, with this case, so to speak. I’d love to see what any verified professionals on this case think, but so far I have only seen one member that is an image pro. Thanks all the same.

You can search for posts by Kell1 to see one LE opinion.
 

It is allowed since it’s from this MSM article. Is there something in the picture that caught your eye? Delphi's Monon High Bridge to be repaired.
 
It is allowed since it’s from this MSM article. Is there something in the picture that caught your eye? Delphi's Monon High Bridge to be repaired.
Thanks steeltowngirl, the thing that stood out to me was the man facing the camera with his head down, wearing a brown fanny pack, light blue Jean's and brown work boots. It just looks very familiar to me.
 
Delphi murders: Why 'The Shack' film was mentioned in reference to killings
What was the tragedy in 'The Shack'?

Law-enforcement officials tell Mack's family that Missy, the 6-year-old daughter, is the victim of a serial killer after blood and clothing items are found in an abandoned cabin.

bbm

I just stumbled about this ^^^, when searching for another quote.
Was that the message to the BG? HE would know it, IMO.
 
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Well, as I understand things, wonderful as genetic genealogy is, immediate success is not guaranteed. (Did the TV show only show successes, or did it include cases where the work drags on frustratingly, without results?)

Off the top of my head, a few things that can complicate things:

1: Adoption and undocumented paternity. You can’t trace a person through family connections, if no one knows about the family connections.

2: A large number of people sharing the same general DNA. If you have a population who tends to intermarry, there’s difficulty in narrowing things down.

3: Sheer randomness. If the closest relative they can find is a fifth cousin, they’ll have a lot harder time than if the murder’s brother innocently supplied his DNA. It can go either way.

And, it’s a lot easier to identify a missing person, than it is to identify a murderer. Families will tell you about their free-spirited aunt who left home as a teenager, and never wrote or called... But no one comes with a ‘murderer’ tag on his forehead, so to speak.

Yes. I work on the family tree and while so far I haven't run into a recent non-paternal event, there was clearly something of sorts 10 centuries ago in one line. Very strange. Go think who it was.

Endogamous ethnic groups are well-known, but also, if one's relatives lived in the village for 2 centuries, expect some endogamy. My husband comes from a townlet of 15000, and there are homozygous areas on one pair of his chromosomes (it does not show in any bad way). But relatives who match him on that chromosome, will invariably look closer than they truly are, being "double cousins".

The most surprising thing is how rapidly relations "wash out" in our DNAs. 5th cousin? We all, humans, are probably 6th cousins, but the fact that the descendant of a real cousins at the level of 1800s has only mitoDNA to share with my dad, is vexing (and his brother could share a lot more, as these things are random).

As to the Parabon and Paul Hole and these early genetic criminology discoveries, they were brilliant. But today's rapists and killers know about the DNA. So genetic studies still have a better chance of success when the crimes date back to the era of perpetrators sharing their DNAs. (And even in these cases, there has to be unbroken chain of custody. And today, Gedmatch is not what it used to be...).
 
It is allowed since it’s from this MSM article. Is there something in the picture that caught your eye? Delphi's Monon High Bridge to be repaired.

Curious.


Here is an article that is likely mainstream.

MAP: Where the two bodies were found near Delphi

If you move the map, you see a storage facility next to Mary Gerard reserve.

I never thought there was a storage so close by.

A storage unit is something I rented, several times. One can keep a lot of things there, including knives and ropes, btw. Some have entrance from the street, or the back of the building.

Just a thought.
 
Thanks steeltowngirl, the thing that stood out to me was the man facing the camera with his head down, wearing a brown fanny pack, light blue Jean's and brown work boots. It just looks very familiar to me.

Taller, though? Maybe.

TBH, any man on that darn bridge looks like BG. There was a picture of a man with a kid, he looked like BG, and when I zoomed, he looked as a man from one of these small religious sects. Who knows?

Landmark appears a powerful organization with some money. (They sell amazing mansions in Indiana, too).

P.S. so Deer Creek under the bridge is navigable to canoes... (next photo from the same article). Curious. Photo copyrighted in 2017 when the trees are still bare (April? The article mentions April...maybe earlier?).

So in the leafless season of early 2017 canoes could flow through that creek. Am I the only one to whom it seems very interesting?
 
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Adoption could be a stumbling block when tracing ancestry. I was adopted as a child. My 23andme DNA test confirmed the identity of my biological family. But if someone were to try and trace the family I actually grew up with via the results of the test, they would learn nothing at all.

But, for the purposes of criminal tracing, I think DNA would be still helpful. If my DNA were in the database, it could still create a familial link to a killer. I just may not actually know the killer that I was related to.

As an aside, that’s one of the scarier things about biological searches made my adoptees. It can open a Pandora’s box of unintended knowledge.

jmo

Especially international adoptions could be difficult. Some adoptees write to me - we have minimal matches with them, and yet it is so sad that I can’t help them.

I am glad that CeCe Moore made FB groups for adoptees. It is private. Before, things were discussed and decided on public forums, and sometimes, with such speed!
 
Delphi murders: Why 'The Shack' film was mentioned in reference to killings
What was the tragedy in 'The Shack'?

Law-enforcement officials tell Mack's family that Missy, the 6-year-old daughter, is the victim of a serial killer after blood and clothing items are found in an abandoned cabin.

bbm

I just stumbled about this ^^^, when searching for another quote.
Was that the message to the BG? HE would know it, IMO.

From the Purdue article "A New Path" which is linked a few posts back, there is this information that may be relevant:

One theory wrongly posits that Carter’s allusion to “The Shack,” a novel about a man who seeks redemption after his daughter is murdered, during a 2019 press conference implies the girls’ killer may have been motivated by the book, or even left it at the crime scene.

“It’s problematic,” Carter said about conspiracy theories. “With homicide cases, it’s easy to speculate.”


Kelsi interviews Carter in the podcast Scene of the Crime and asks him point blank about the significance of The Shack. He says it was just a movie with themes of redemption and forgiveness that spoke to him. He asks her if she has seen the movie and she says yes, but until she watched it more than once she didn't get the same thing out of it that Carter did. It wasn't a coded message about the crime scene or evidence IMO. Apparently Carter mentioned it because he hoped people who were still hurting from the tragedy of the girls' deaths would get some comfort out of the movie's message.
 
Thank you Yemelyan for the quote from the Purdue article. Please, could anyone precis it on here, as I can't access it from my region, thanks.

Going back to page 1 of this thread, and the discussion regarding what was in the gap on "Guys... down the hill"
The mother of Abby was asked about this on the recent online interview she did. She said. "There is less than a three second gap between guys and down the hill...Nor one minute of pause, there is seconds of pause" She said it is possible the girls responded in that gap, with a brief "Huh?" type of response
Youtube interview with AW
Talk of the gap starts after 16.30
 
So in the leafless season of early 2017 canoes could flow through that creek. Am I the only one to whom it seems very interesting?

I recall early discussion about an escape route via this method, also, there was discussion indicating bridge creek may have been navigable via 4wd vehicle, providing entry/exit.

As to the aforementioned photos, maybe it's something about that bridge that causes one to turn one's right foot inward, I dunno.
 
Thank you Yemelyan for the quote from the Purdue article. Please, could anyone precis it on here, as I can't access it from my region, thanks.

Going back to page 1 of this thread, and the discussion regarding what was in the gap on "Guys... down the hill"
The mother of Abby was asked about this on the recent online interview she did. She said. "There is less than a three second gap between guys and down the hill...Nor one minute of pause, there is seconds of pause" She said it is possible the girls responded in that gap, with a brief "Huh?" type of response
Youtube interview with AW
Talk of the gap starts after 16.30
So LE didn't let Anna hear the 3 second gap between guys and down the hill. If there was a reply, a lot could be learned by how it was spoken. Relaxed as if you were speaking to a friend, confused, frightened, submissive, defiant. It is something else that helps build the picture of what happened.
 
So LE didn't let Anna hear the 3 second gap between guys and down the hill. If there was a reply, a lot could be learned by how it was spoken. Relaxed as if you were speaking to a friend, confused, frightened, submissive, defiant. It is something else that helps build the picture of what happened.
I got the impression that she had heard it. Sorry if I was unclear. She said it was just the initial greeting (which I took to mean that this is the first thing that BG said to the girls) followed by the order. She quoted it herself to show how it was. One of the hosts suggested that brief gap was filled by the girls' reply to the greeting. AW said there may have something, but it was just a teenage sort of grunt. MOO
 
Thanks steeltowngirl, the thing that stood out to me was the man facing the camera with his head down, wearing a brown fanny pack, light blue Jean's and brown work boots. It just looks very familiar to me.

That’s pretty interesting. Not that I think the guy with brown fanny pack is connected at all with the murders but because that brown fanny pack looks exactly like what BG is wearing. I definitely don’t think that’s a shirttail sticking out under BG’s jacket now. I wonder if it is made for a specific purpose or it’s just has generic uses.
 
Delphi murders: Why 'The Shack' film was mentioned in reference to killings
What was the tragedy in 'The Shack'?

Law-enforcement officials tell Mack's family that Missy, the 6-year-old daughter, is the victim of a serial killer after blood and clothing items are found in an abandoned cabin.

bbm

I just stumbled about this ^^^, when searching for another quote.
Was that the message to the BG? HE would know it, IMO.

Oh how I wish that Carter would just make a definitive statement about why he mentioned The Shack. I really feel that reference during the press conference set off a firestorm of speculation and was a bit reckless IMO. Unless it actually meant something, why say it at all?

The latest article did touch upon the topic:

The subreddit “Delphi Murders” has nearly 27,000 followers who hang on Carter’s every word. One theory wrongly posits that Carter’s allusion to “The Shack,” a novel about a man who seeks redemption after his daughter is murdered, during a 2019 press conference implies the girls’ killer may have been motivated by the book, or even left it at the crime scene.

“It’s problematic,” Carter said about conspiracy theories. “With homicide cases, it’s easy to speculate.”

A new path
 
I got the impression that she had heard it. Sorry if I was unclear. She said it was just the initial greeting (which I took to mean that this is the first thing that BG said to the girls) followed by the order. She quoted it herself to show how it was. One of the hosts suggested that brief gap was filled by the girls' reply to the greeting. AW said there may have something, but it was just a teenage sort of grunt. MOO

Just hearing the reality that the girls said something when initially spoken to, just makes me sick at my stomach. It makes it even more real the confusion and terror that the girls must have been going thru. What is he doing? Why is doing this? Is he going to call our parents or the police? He probably had a false storyline going (not revealing his true motive) before he got them off the bridge and out of sight where he probably only then pulled the gun.

The girls were complying in the early stages thinking they had done something wrong (trespassing, etc) probably before it escalated and then they were down the hill out of sight of the trail, trapped and totally helpless.

Just makes me want to puke.
 
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Oh how I wish that Carter would just make a definitive statement about why he mentioned The Shack. I really feel that reference during the press conference set off a firestorm of speculation and was a bit reckless IMO. Unless it actually meant something, why say it at all?

The latest article did touch upon the topic:

The subreddit “Delphi Murders” has nearly 27,000 followers who hang on Carter’s every word. One theory wrongly posits that Carter’s allusion to “The Shack,” a novel about a man who seeks redemption after his daughter is murdered, during a 2019 press conference implies the girls’ killer may have been motivated by the book, or even left it at the crime scene.

“It’s problematic,” Carter said about conspiracy theories. “With homicide cases, it’s easy to speculate.”

A new path

@steeltowngirl You might want to read my response in the thread above yours. He was asked this question by Kelsi and provided a definite answer IMO.

Edited to say, I found the clip in question. It's from Scene if the Crime: A New Dire
 
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