CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #73

[Megnut]

Anyone who would share gruesome details, outside of interrogation, has no conscience.

He knew what he was doing, he planned and executed it, he got a sense of mastery in doing it, he knew it was wrong, BUT HE DID IT ANYWAY.

Because he could. Cold, calculated, conniving and cruel beyond cruel.

Moreover, I believe he attacked/
strangled his wife from behind (atop). His descriptions, purely salacious. Like he wants street cred for being Ad Bass. Shan'ann, he says he thinks, was praying for him, actually forgiving him. Um, yeah, no. She was likely incapacitated swiftly and was struggling TO BREATH.

The love from his supporters is sickening. It just advances his ability to forget what he's done. Forgiveness? He doesn't even know what that is... because you'd have to know the soul crushing weight of remorse first. And you need a soul for that.

He's not tormented.

He ought to be, but he's not.

The likes of Bundy.

He should be forbidden to have photographs of his victims, forbidden even to utter their precious names.

Jmo

 

[NuttMegg]

I hope to god he’s living with his actions and thoughts. That would be punishment enough to us normal folks, but I doubt that he is. He is a very twisted individual with a very twisted sense of reality. I’m sure he’s developed that warped reality even more now that he’s in prison. Maybe he has has short moments of clarity where it all comes crashing down on him and the weight is heavy enough to put a catch in his breath. I bet it ends there though sadly. He’s probably built up some heavy walls and mental defenses. Can you imagine the images he fights with. Pure evil.

The way I understand it is that he might think with his new-found religion he can do more to help (who?) if he can get out of prison.
You betcha.

Disclaimer nothing against religion or those who sincerely practice or study any of the many forms.

Just that finding religion should not be a get-out-of-jail card, IMO. For a baby and wife killer. Work on all the inmates, Chris, let them call BS on you while you excuse/explain baby killing to their faces. Tell 'em how your little girl "just grunted" as you murdered her. (Your words). You wouldn't want just a few moments of your miserable life to define your character, would ya.

I hope you like sleeping 3 feet from your own toilet and get to do it for the rest of your miserable life. If only you had never been born you monster.

 

[mickey2942]

The way I understand it is that he might think with his new-found religion he can do more to help (who?) if he can get out of prison.
You betcha.

Disclaimer nothing against religion or those who sincerely practice any of the many forms.

Just that finding religion should not be a get-out-of-jail card, IMO. For a baby and wife killer. Work on all the inmates, Chris, let them call BS on you while you excuse/explain baby killing. to their faces. You wouldn't want just a few moments of your miserable life to define your character, would ya.

I hope you like sleeping 3 feet from your own toilet and get to do it for the rest of your miserable life. If only you hadn't have been born you monster.

Agree. I really can't stand people who "find" religion after they have done serious damage to others. People do not have to "forgive".

 

[gitana1]

Does it ever annoy you to think that a person like this is in prison for life, he gets every single thing for free. Stuff we have to go to work every day to pay for. And no doubt his family probably gives him extra cash for commissary items.

He lays around in his cell all day. Reading his Bible. Probably watches TV, whatever else he does. Just annoys me. I want him to be dragging 50 lbs rocks all day, even if it is just from one side of the prison yard and back.

It bothers me that people like him and Arias and Peterson, etc., seem to fare very well in prison. They don’t seem to have any issues with it.

It doesn’t seem to be justice.

I agree. Imo she was young and thought only for herself. Imo it could have become a contest in a way. Who does he love more? Who does he choose? That's how it always looked to me. Not trying to knock her as I think immaturity played a huge role.
jmoo

That’s EXACTLY what I think it was. She was petulantly punishing him for already having “firsts” with another woman. So she wanted to make him prove that she was more important than his whole family.

Typical insecure narcissist, IMO.

 

[Colorado303]

I can believe he can rationalize what he did to the innocent girls and I don’t think it drives him crazy, because I have experienced this type of man. Most people can not believe it is possible .My violent husband chose one child to be the victim , as well as me, and yes, I did get us out. That child committed suicide. My ex husband is still blasé about the suicide, the abuse, and my ptsd. He actually laughs and says, “well I won, didn’t I?” ( regarding destroying me and making me suffer.) So no, I don’t believe CW has a conscience, thus he has no regrets, except getting caught.

How absolutely horrible! I’m so sorry about the abuse and especially the death of your child. He sounds like a rotten, rotten man! Fortunately people like that are few and far between, but they don’t come with a red flag stapled to their chest. Often they appear completely normal, if not downright lovely to the rest of the world.

I don’t doubt your ex has no remorse. It doesn’t even surprise me that he’s gleeful. I wish there was suitable punishment—you deserve to be able to see justice in this lifetime.

Again, I’m so sorry. Thanks for sharing your insight with the rest of us.

 

[Colorado303]

Anyone who would share gruesome details, outside of interrogation, has no conscience.

He knew what he was doing, he planned and executed it, he got a sense of mastery in doing it, he knew it was wrong, BUT HE DID IT ANYWAY.

Because he could. Cold, calculated, conniving and cruel beyond cruel.

Moreover, I believe he attacked/
strangled his wife from behind (atop). His descriptions, purely salacious. Like he wants street cred for being Ad Bass. Shan'ann, he says he thinks, was praying for him, actually forgiving him. Um, yeah, no. She was likely incapacitated swiftly and was struggling TO BREATH.

The love from his supporters is sickening. It just advances his ability to forget what he's done. Forgiveness? He doesn't even know what that is... because you'd have to know the soul crushing weight of remorse first. And you need a soul for that.

He's not tormented.

He ought to be, but he's not.

The likes of Bundy.

He should be forbidden to have photographs of his victims, forbidden even to utter their precious names.

Jmo

This!

 

[Colorado303]

The way I understand it is that he might think with his new-found religion he can do more to help (who?) if he can get out of prison.
You betcha.

Disclaimer nothing against religion or those who sincerely practice or study any of the many forms.

Just that finding religion should not be a get-out-of-jail card, IMO. For a baby and wife killer. Work on all the inmates, Chris, let them call BS on you while you excuse/explain baby killing to their faces. Tell 'em how your little girl "just grunted" as you murdered her. (Your words). You wouldn't want just a few moments of your miserable life to define your character, would ya.

I hope you like sleeping 3 feet from your own toilet and get to do it for the rest of your miserable life. If only you had never been born you monster.

And this.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

How absolutely horrible! I’m so sorry about the abuse and especially the death of your child. He sounds like a rotten, rotten man! Fortunately people like that are few and far between, but they don’t come with a red flag stapled to their chest. Often they appear completely normal, if not downright lovely to the rest of the world.

I don’t doubt your ex has no remorse. It doesn’t even surprise me that he’s gleeful. I wish there was suitable punishment—you deserve to be able to see justice in this lifetime.

Again, I’m so sorry. Thanks for sharing your insight with the rest of us.

Thank you, I didn’t mean to get personal. It’s just unless you’ve witnessed this “mask of sanity” it is hard to believe a man, a father, can have zero remorse. Chris Watts is one of those it would appear. Happy as can be, saying “I’m still a dad!” Hello, what? No you aren’t, you murdered your kids! So good people truly can not fathom this, they think somewhere he must be wretched with guilt. I don’t think so. My personal experience was just to explain why I don’t think so. Hard to believe otherwise, for all good souls.

 

[Colorado303]

Remember that presentation CW gave in 2012 for a Communications class? The one about Relationships?

When the presentation first surfaced I was flooded with so many weird/unsettling facts I didn’t think about it much. But today I stumbled across an old article in the Coloradan that mentioned it, including these quotes:

"Sometimes when you have children and your relationship starts to deteriorate, a child could help repair it,"

“Even at the job. You might meet a new person and (it) could strengthen into something else and could weaken the bond you have with the partner you have.”

“And you feel that you might be better with someone else that you’ve met.”.

You think that you can no longer do — that your partner is someone that you can’t be with.”

I’m stuck thinking there has to be some connection between this presentation— made before either girl was born — and CW’s thought pattern six years later when he encountered NK. But my mind is spinning too much to nail down a hypothesis.

IMO It’s far too weird to be a coincidence.

Most communication/speech classes I’ve taken make you pick your own topic. In hindsight, it’s not surprising that the guy who googled What does it feel like to be in love and When to say “I love you” would be researching relationships around the time he first married. But IMO it’s a weird topic to stand up in front of a class and talk about. Then again we now know he’s a weird guy. That much I understand.

But the quotes above foreshadow his relationship with NK to a tee. Short of killing his family, of course. But why?

Was he tired of being married and, remembering his presentation research sought out a relationship at work?

Did he stumble across NK, become interested in her then remember his presentation— rationalizing that his behavior was perfectly “normal”?

When he wrote the presentation was there another slide in his head that said “and sometimes the person kills his spouse and children to be with their new partner”?

Something else?

I generally avoid spending energy attenpting to figure out what makes CW tick. I can hear hypotheses but trying to work it out myself knots up my stomach.

I know many of you guys have become knowledgable re the minds of creeps like him. I’d appreciate your thoughts.

Video of presentation is here:

Quotes were copied from the Coloradan article linked below. Note, I think they got the presentation date wrong—they say it was done in 2009–before CW even met S and before they moved to Colorado. The presentation was given in Broomfield CO, so I believe the YouTube upload date in 2012 is more accurate.

www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2018/08/23/colorado-watts-family-who-were-christopher-watts-shanann-watts-prior-murder/1062614002/

 

[Utsarah]

What’s really sad to me about the relationship video is that Shannan commented, giving her support. How anyone can blame her for what happened is beyond my comprehension.

 

[mickey2942]

What really struck me, watching the Netflix show, was that Shanann had no clue how dangerous CW was. How can women protect themselves from this type of situation, when it seems so random? Are there clues?

Scott Peterson was cheating on Lacey, and she was pregnant.
Mark Hacking, killed his wife, Lori, she was pregnant.
CW, J. McDonald, Charles Stewart...there are so many of them, almost exactly the same story, women killed by their baby's father. Scary.

 

[mickey2942]

Uxoricide - Wikipedia

 

[Seattle1]

What really struck me, watching the Netflix show, was that Shanann had no clue how dangerous CW was. How can women protect themselves from this type of situation, when it seems so random? Are there clues?

Scott Peterson was cheating on Lacey, and she was pregnant.
Mark Hacking, killed his wife, Lori, she was pregnant.
CW, J. McDonald, Charles Stewart...there are so many of them, almost exactly the same story, women killed by their baby's father. Scary.

It wasn't only Shanann that had no clue how dangerous CW was. He also had the Ruzek's and all their friends fooled.

It seems that CW transformed into the killer behind the mask in the weeks that SW and the girls were in NC and CW was nurturing his relationship with NK.

Poor SW was trying to tell her friends something was wrong -- CW was acting odd and they were all trying to convince SW that it was not happening and how much CW adored her and his children. NOBODY wanted to believe this of CW.

 

[kkdj]

It wasn't only Shanann that had no clue how dangerous CW was. He also had the Ruzek's and all their friends fooled.

It seems that CW transformed into the killer behind the mask in the weeks that SW and the girls were in NC and CW was nurturing his relationship with NK.

Poor SW was trying to tell her friends something was wrong -- CW was acting odd and they were all trying to convince SW that it was not happening and how much CW adored her and his children. NOBODY wanted to believe this of CW.

Yes. This kind of thinking was unfathomable. And for everyone's eyes CW had been a very involved and loving dad.
I wonder if SW had occasionally seen or felt something evil in him.

 

[Peppery]

At some point we become responsible for our own maturity. I would think 15+ years past puberty is enough time.

Exactly. She was 30, not 18. Her moral compass had been developed long before she met CW.

 

[NuttMegg]

Remember that presentation CW gave in 2012 for a Communications class? The one about Relationships?

When the presentation first surfaced I was flooded with so many weird/unsettling facts I didn’t think about it much. But today I stumbled across an old article in the Coloradan that mentioned it, including these quotes:

"Sometimes when you have children and your relationship starts to deteriorate, a child could help repair it,"

“Even at the job. You might meet a new person and (it) could strengthen into something else and could weaken the bond you have with the partner you have.”

“And you feel that you might be better with someone else that you’ve met.”.

You think that you can no longer do — that your partner is someone that you can’t be with.”

I’m stuck thinking there has to be some connection between this presentation— made before either girl was born — and CW’s thought pattern six years later when he encountered NK. But my mind is spinning too much to nail down a hypothesis.

IMO It’s far too weird to be a coincidence.

Most communication/speech classes I’ve taken make you pick your own topic. In hindsight, it’s not surprising that the guy who googled What does it feel like to be in love and When to say “I love you” would be researching relationships around the time he first married. But IMO it’s a weird topic to stand up in front of a class and talk about. Then again we now know he’s a weird guy. That much I understand.

But the quotes above foreshadow his relationship with NK to a tee. Short of killing his family, of course. But why?

Was he tired of being married and, remembering his presentation research sought out a relationship at work?

Did he stumble across NK, become interested in her then remember his presentation— rationalizing that his behavior was perfectly “normal”?

When he wrote the presentation was there another slide in his head that said “and sometimes the person kills his spouse and children to be with their new partner”?

Something else?

I generally avoid spending energy attenpting to figure out what makes CW tick. I can hear hypotheses but trying to work it out myself knots up my stomach.

I know many of you guys have become knowledgable re the minds of creeps like him. I’d appreciate your thoughts.

Video of presentation is here:

Quotes were copied from the Coloradan article linked below. Note, I think they got the presentation date wrong—they say it was done in 2009–before CW even met S and before they moved to Colorado. The presentation was given in Broomfield CO, so I believe the YouTube upload date in 2012 is more accurate.

www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2018/08/23/colorado-watts-family-who-were-christopher-watts-shanann-watts-prior-murder/1062614002/

I always thought that the presentation was pretty much high school level cut and paste from Wiki, or some pop psychology mag at the checkout stand at Walmart's.

I stated my opinion about a thousand times here, I still believe CW was an empty being, with no structure in his brain to absorb norms, right and wrong, etc. He could readily learn facts, like how to tune an auto, how to manipulate a wrench, how to remember which crude batteries needed maintenance. Because, all of this was poured into his mind by someone else. His friends said he was like an encyclopedia re Ford mechanics. Coder's statement about having a clue in the future if the murderer was a "Chris Watt's" type rang true with me. (Coder didn't elaborate, but I think he meant a completely empty amoral individual, making it harder for LE to assess motives, and MO).

I don't have any personal experience with friends or acquaintances who were empty souls in a seemingly human body. Somehow his mother and father and grandmother created this, IMO, I don't think it was genetic. Sitting with grandma in the car waiting and waiting for popular sis to finally come out from the school, hearing over and over again how "sweet" he was, knowing that mother didn't care much for grandma, the lady who took care of him a lot.

He learned to be a "good dad" from mimicking Shan'ann being a good mother, IMO not from his own troubled Mother. Oh I meant to say sicko. But SW wasn't around when he had to decide whether or not to kill the kids and mutilate their bodies. You see, no one had taught him not to do that. He drove for an hour with them in the same car, knowing he was going to snuff them.

Back to the presentation, it could be that he internalized that presentation like you say, and I say that too but a little differently. He had space in his empty brain to file away some of these facts or opinions he later remembered from the presentation. Especially those which justified what he did to his marriage.

I keep thinking of the sentence he used in interrogation, about 3-4 times if I remember right. Coder, or Tammy said something like "Why did you take them to the site, why did you put them in the tanks?". (paraphrased)

And, remember CW's response? "I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO DO. "

Yep, he hadn't looked up that theme of "why not to kill your own family" for some freshman level speech 101 class.

 

[NuttMegg]

Exactly. She was 30, not 18. Her moral compass had been developed long before she met CW.

I kind of laugh when I read that he found a "younger woman". She was only 4 years younger than Shan'ann. A practically meaningless distinction in that age group, looks wise. But the mistress had so much more experience than did SW, per her own conversations with her girlfriend. So a person can obviously be younger in years, yet oh so much older in years of manipulation and having made iffy choices.
So here she is, a few days after CW's real family got back, and the day before he kills them, googling kinky sex to, IMO, try to rope him back into her realm of influence.

 

[Berrybell]

Please understand I am not victim bashing, but something that has stuck me while reading up on this case and watching Netflix all three women in CWs life, his mom, SW and NK seemed to be strong- willed women I am curious why that is the type of woman he was attracted to and kept repeating in relationships. I read that NK stated she had not seen anything about SW...but.. her pictures and videos with CW seem to be competitive with what SW posted of relationship with him.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Please understand I am not victim bashing, but something that has stuck me while reading up on this case and watching Netflix all three women in CWs life, his mom, SW and NK seemed to be strong- willed women I am curious why that is the type of woman he was attracted to and kept repeating in relationships. I read that NK stated she had not seen anything about SW...but.. her pictures and videos with CW seem to be competitive with what SW posted of relationship with him.

NK is a lying liar that lies IMO.

It was discovered that she had searched online for Shannan, and how can we forget she saw those many adorable pics of Shannan and the girls when she snuck into his home for a quickie when they were in North Carolina for weeks?!

Gaaaah, she can claim innocence until hell freezes over, but she knew far more than we'll ever be privy to. I hope she never finds a moment's peace over this personally.

MOO

 

[Berrybell]

NK is a lying liar that lies IMO.

It was discovered that she had searched online for Shannan, and how can we forget she saw those many adorable pics of Shannan and the girls when she snuck into his home for a quickie when they were in North Carolina for weeks?!

Gaaaah, she can claim innocence until hell freezes over, but she knew far more than we'll ever be privy to. I hope she never finds a moment's peace over this personally.

MOO

I completely agree with you girlhasnoname, I think she knew deep down he wasn't really separated and was lying to her, she knew she was competing for him and SW had no clue she was up against two cruel and uncaring people.