Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #86

[Colorado303]

I don't think Dr. Fauci ever expected to be treated so disrespectfully- especially by a president of the United States. As I said before, my heart goes out to him: I have no doubt he will be fired----I know beneath his strong exterior exists a sadness for himself and for the country he loves.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he quits before Trump has time to fire him. I know I would!

 

[CSIDreamer]

IMO another part of the problem in the US is a lot of people quit watching the news because they think it’s untrustworthy and politically biased. Then there are others who find it too disturbing or are just “too busy”. At least that’s what my friends who are clueless about COVID trends tell me.

What’s interesting is most of them say they get the news they need from Facebook now. So while I believe traditional media’s ability to solve the problem will be limited, perhaps a grassroots effort on Facebook can make a real difference. Could be wrong—I go on FB a couple times a month so it’s not part of my routine. But it seems a majority of folks check it daily.

MOO

I understand not watching the news. It's about as biased as you can get. I hate wasting time like that. You'll notice very few factual Covid stories from MSM because they're pumped full of political opinions.

 

[BUF]

So, should he want to fire Fauci, how does the very recent executive order Trump signed come into play? From what I’ve read it does give him authority to fire any civil servant and/or political appointee for whatever reason. Obviously I’ve only read articles about it and not the actual order but still... this is scary stuff to me.

The Trump administration has issued an executive order that would fundamentally restructure the federal workforce, making it easier for the government to fire thousands of federal workers, while also allowing political and other considerations to affect hiring.

The executive order, issued last week, would affect the professional employees in policymaking positions at the very top of the civil service — people like lawyers and scientists who are are not political appointees and serve from administration to administration regardless of which party controls the White House.

'A Huge Attack': Critics Decry Trump Order That Makes Firing Federal Workers Easier

From your link...

The executive order calls on federal agencies to make a list of positions that would be affected by the new classification by Jan. 19, the day before Inauguration Day.

What happens next depends on who is sworn in on Jan. 20. It's likely that Democrat Joe Biden would overturn the order if elected. Democrats in Congress say they'll work to nullify the order, and the National Treasury Employees Union has filed a lawsuit to overturn it in court.

 

[Cool Cats]

Mon, November 2, 2020, 8:23 AM EST
As the Virus Rages, Some Are Convinced It's Too Late to Stop It

COEUR d’ALENE, Idaho — The congregation of Candlelight Christian Fellowship gathered around tables in the church sanctuary one night last week to sip coffee and grapple with theological questions. From down the hall came the laughter of dozens of children at play.

With a potluck dinner, no masks and plenty of shared hugs, the night felt like a throwback to the pre-pandemic era except for a noticeable exception on the stage: The lead pastor, Paul Van Noy, was addressing the congregation with the aid of supplemental oxygen, piped into his nostrils from a small tank.......

About a month ago, Van Noy, 60, was discharged from a hospital in a wheelchair after a COVID-19 infection brought him to the brink of death. But while that scare ravaged his lungs and rattled the church, it has done little to alter the growing sentiment among many people in northern Idaho that the coronavirus cannot be stopped and efforts to contain it are doing more harm than good.

“I think we just open up and we just let it take its course,” said Nancy Hillberg, 68, as church members mingled after the service. “Just let it be done.”

 

[GRT]

It must come from the top, however.

I understand your point, but I'm not sure those at "the top" are all that bright and creative when it comes to implementing successful campaigns that are emotionally moving. Yes, federal funding should foot the bill, but wouldn't you rather have a campaign with heart-tugging commercials that really hit home like some of the Budweiser commercials? Take this one for example. Is that not amazing? Obviously, we don't want to promote beer drinking, but something that promotes an emotional response might really help.

 

[GRT]

Part of the problem in trying to discuss Covid in the United States is that "Main Stream Media" is usually politically slanted. Even a discussion of data becomes convoluted by the myriad of political gamesmanship in manipulating the data.

It is too bad that people don't realize we are all in this "big boat" together, and when people keep rowing against each other, our "boat" just keeps going in circles and floundering. While others just keep trying to hopelessly bail out the water that keeps trying to topple the "boat". While others, just want the band to keep playing so they can go to the bar. No wonder it is such a mess.

This can be related to the "Titanic" in real time. We saw the ice berg, but kept going towards it, full steam ahead.
Ski, Party, Seed a Pandemic: The Travel Rules That Let Covid-19 Take Flight

This link is interesting to me, because I live in Montana, a state that was fairly untouched by the virus, if we could have shut down our state to only essential travel we wouldn't have the out of control Covid rate we have now.

This post nails it! So accurate!

Everyone seems to have a slant or an agenda. We need to pull together. I hope Montana soon gets its rate of infection under control.

 

[ilovewings]

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he quits before Trump has time to fire him. I know I would!

I don't think Dr. Fauci is the type of man to quit- or he would have quit before this- after all he and his family have been the target of death threats (disgustingly)

 

[weepingangel]

Gov. Baker to announce new COVID reopening orders as Massachusetts sees rise in cases
More at link
(I’m not expecting anything drastic to be announced. We’ll see...)

After a weekend that saw the number of COVID-19 deaths surpass 10,000 and as the number of people who need hospital care for a coronavirus infection rises, Gov. Charlie Baker will announce new orders related to the state’s economic reopening on Monday afternoon.

The governor’s office said he, Lt. Gov. Karyn Polito and Health and Human Services Secretary Marylou Sudders will detail “new executive orders affecting the reopening process due to recent increases in new cases and hospitalizations of COVID-19 across the state” at a 1:30 p.m. press conference Monday.

 

[MsArk]

An eighth grade Missouri boy died over the weekend of Covid-19 complications, becoming the state's, and one of the nation's, youngest deaths from the coronavirus.

13-year-old Missouri boy dies from Covid-19 complications

 

[Trino]

Mon, November 2, 2020, 8:23 AM EST
As the Virus Rages, Some Are Convinced It's Too Late to Stop It

COEUR d’ALENE, Idaho — The congregation of Candlelight Christian Fellowship gathered around tables in the church sanctuary one night last week to sip coffee and grapple with theological questions. From down the hall came the laughter of dozens of children at play.

With a potluck dinner, no masks and plenty of shared hugs, the night felt like a throwback to the pre-pandemic era except for a noticeable exception on the stage: The lead pastor, Paul Van Noy, was addressing the congregation with the aid of supplemental oxygen, piped into his nostrils from a small tank.......

About a month ago, Van Noy, 60, was discharged from a hospital in a wheelchair after a COVID-19 infection brought him to the brink of death. But while that scare ravaged his lungs and rattled the church, it has done little to alter the growing sentiment among many people in northern Idaho that the coronavirus cannot be stopped and efforts to contain it are doing more harm than good.

“I think we just open up and we just let it take its course,” said Nancy Hillberg, 68, as church members mingled after the service. “Just let it be done.”

Another attempt at herd immunity, which has been shown to not be an answer, plus it has now been shown that this virus can return to individuals who were previously affected.

 

[Trino]

Unfortunately, some people have bought right into it.

There was a little incident where a US friend was saying how much he wants to return to Australia. His next door neighbour said that she loved visiting Australia but she would never go there while 'they were doing what they were doing'. (Apparently, we were under martial law, locked in our houses, and fed bread and water )

When my friend tried to enlighten her on how it is (he was here during lockdown and experienced the freedoms that still remain during lockdown - like the roadtrips we took, and camped in a tent, away from other people), she had the audacity to tell him that no, that's not how it is.

So amusing. Hope the bread is whole wheat, since it healthier.

 

[JaneEyre]

Mon, November 2, 2020, 8:23 AM EST
As the Virus Rages, Some Are Convinced It's Too Late to Stop It

COEUR d’ALENE, Idaho — The congregation of Candlelight Christian Fellowship gathered around tables in the church sanctuary one night last week to sip coffee and grapple with theological questions. From down the hall came the laughter of dozens of children at play.

With a potluck dinner, no masks and plenty of shared hugs, the night felt like a throwback to the pre-pandemic era except for a noticeable exception on the stage: The lead pastor, Paul Van Noy, was addressing the congregation with the aid of supplemental oxygen, piped into his nostrils from a small tank.......

About a month ago, Van Noy, 60, was discharged from a hospital in a wheelchair after a COVID-19 infection brought him to the brink of death. But while that scare ravaged his lungs and rattled the church, it has done little to alter the growing sentiment among many people in northern Idaho that the coronavirus cannot be stopped and efforts to contain it are doing more harm than good.

“I think we just open up and we just let it take its course,” said Nancy Hillberg, 68, as church members mingled after the service. “Just let it be done.”

Wow. Just totally giving up.

 

[margarita25]

LOTS of schools with active outbreaks. Good that Colorado has this resource though.

As an outsider, it really drives it home how rampant this plague is, when you click on the dots and see all the types of places with outbreaks.

Yes, I was “cruising the map” the other day, checking up on local businesses and locations in my area, and was like, “oh no, this place has an outbreak? That place has an outbreak?”

Also, my neighbor who works at a well known brand name food processing facility (not meat) told me several employees are out with covid.

Crowd chanting, "Fire Fauci. Fire Fauci."
OMG. This man has years of experience. What is wrong with people?

At late-night rally, Trump suggests he may fire Fauci ‘after the election.’

This is DISGUSTING.

Ps, the Rolling Stone video interview with Fauci I posted last night was really good; I recommend taking a watch, especially in light of this recent, um, news:

Dr. Fauci Talks Covid Vaccines, Immunity 'Uncertainty', and How Long We'll Need Masks
Oct. 29, 2020

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Mon, November 2, 2020, 8:23 AM EST
As the Virus Rages, Some Are Convinced It's Too Late to Stop It

COEUR d’ALENE, Idaho — The congregation of Candlelight Christian Fellowship gathered around tables in the church sanctuary one night last week to sip coffee and grapple with theological questions. From down the hall came the laughter of dozens of children at play.

With a potluck dinner, no masks and plenty of shared hugs, the night felt like a throwback to the pre-pandemic era except for a noticeable exception on the stage: The lead pastor, Paul Van Noy, was addressing the congregation with the aid of supplemental oxygen, piped into his nostrils from a small tank.......

About a month ago, Van Noy, 60, was discharged from a hospital in a wheelchair after a COVID-19 infection brought him to the brink of death. But while that scare ravaged his lungs and rattled the church, it has done little to alter the growing sentiment among many people in northern Idaho that the coronavirus cannot be stopped and efforts to contain it are doing more harm than good.

“I think we just open up and we just let it take its course,” said Nancy Hillberg, 68, as church members mingled after the service. “Just let it be done.”

It is such a shame that many do not understand exponential growth.. and it you get down the beginning numbers in the beginning, it is an unbelievable difference in the outcome.

I really do believe that many don't understand why countries want to get the numbers down NOW so that when exponential does happen, it is from a lower baseline.

Oh where oh where is that example some of us had in gradeschool of the question if you would want to have a penny doubled every day vs. ??????????? which would you choose?

 

[ilovewings]

Another attempt at herd immunity, which has been shown to not be an answer, plus it has now been shown that this virus can return to individuals who were previously affected.

Herd immunity is another term for "do nothing and let it rip through the country"
Giving it a fancy name doesn't change what it is- it is a disgrace that our leaders are not helping lead us out of this-

 

[neesaki]

WASHINGTON – Medical groups are slamming President Donald Trump for resurfacing a baseless conspiracy on campaign stops that doctors are inflating the number of COVID-19 deaths in the USA in order to drive up profits during the pandemic.

"You know, our doctors get more money if somebody dies from COVID. You know that, right?" Trump told a rally in Waterford Township, Mich., on Friday, resurfacing a claim he has made for weeks. "I mean, our doctors are very smart people...so, what they do is they say, 'I'm sorry, but, you know, everybody dies of COVID.'"

[...]

“The American College of Emergency Physicians released a statement earlier this week saying the group was "appalled" by the president's claim.

"To imply that emergency physicians would inflate the number of deaths from this pandemic to gain financially is offensive, especially as many are actually under unprecedented financial strain as they continue to bear the brunt of COVID-19," the group said in an Oct. 25 statement.”


Trump ripped for baseless claim doctors inflate COVID-19 deaths

I think it’s more likely the hospital administration than the physicians. Not that some docs wouldn’t go along with it.
Just saying this as a former RN who worked in med surg and oncology and saw patients charged for things that were never used. Then there is the “cash price” they give you versus the considerably higher price if it’s billed to insurance. I know this firsthand from our own experience as patients (me and my DH) .
Our medical system, big Pharma, etc, needed a serious overhaul long before this pandemic, IMO.

 

[ilovewings]

I think it’s more likely the hospital administration than the physicians. Not that some docs wouldn’t go along with it.
Just saying this as a former RN who worked in med surg and oncology and saw patients charged for things that were never used. Then there is the “cash price” they give you versus the considerably higher price if it’s billed to insurance. I know this firsthand from our own experience as patients (me and my DH) .
Our medical system, big Pharma, etc, needed a serious overhaul long before this pandemic, IMO.

All that may be true, but has nothing to do with this pandemic and how the president is slamming physicians for allegedly padding medical bills. it is a disgrace. Physicians are putting their lives on the line every single day in this crisis -- No wonder they are po'd.

 

[10ofRods]

This is very disappointing news. This is a well-researched article in the NYTimes about how we may never discover the source of the virus because China threw up roadblocks at the start. This is information scientists and virologists really need to be able to predict the risk of future pandemics.

I was unaware that the WHO's constitution makes them indebted to the countries that finance the organization. That seems wrong in an ethical sense, since I think the WHO should be above politics.

This is long read, but for those who are interested in how and why we still don't know the source of the virus, it's a good read.
In Hunt for Virus Source, W.H.O. Let China Take Charge

Can you explain what you mean by 'knowing the source' of the virus? And how that relates to what virologists need to know to predict risk of future pandemics?

We have the complete phylogeny of CV19 (and have had it almost since the pandemic began). China failed to alert the world properly and in time, according to many - but that's not what scientists and virologists study.

The phylogenetic tracking of CV19 is thorough. Here's an early article (written Feb-March, published March-April). There were already 13 other articles (bibliography at end of that article) on where the virus came from (which can be seen in the phylogenetic research) and many since that time.

We known a lot about coronaviruses before this pandemic and we know that it is zoonotic (came from non-human animals) and is nearly identical to a virus found in bats. So far, the research shows the earliest known cases were in Wuhan. The way that pandemic risk is assessed is by studying the R-naught number of each known virus. That's been done many places. These epidemiological analyses do not depend on knowing where the virus came from.

The history of the virus is, of course, of political and historic interest. The ways in which animal viruses jump into human populations are well known and well studied.

It seems to me the only question left unanswered (which has nothing to do with assessing the virus itself) is the human behavior that allowed the zoonotic transmission. Was it wet markets? Or was it human error by a lab worker? The answer to that speaks to human policies and scientific ethics, not to virology or epidemiology. Everyone knows, if they work with viruses in a lab, what the safety protocols are. I figure it would be applied psychology or other human subjects research that would tell us why lab workers make mistakes.

The wet market problem is well known and well documented. In fact, there's way more scientific evidence on the consistent and persistent zoonotic transmission of viruses associated with wet markets, way before CV-19.

But if lab workers were careless and one got the virus him/herself, I suppose you could claim that China knows this and just isn't telling. But that's not an issue that would in any way affect our studies of the epidemiology of CV-19 as a pathogen.

Basics of coronavirus phylogenetic study

 

[margarita25]

You are ever so very awesome!!!!!!

xoxo
Well, was it on there? I’m curious now.

 

[10ofRods]

Wow. Just totally giving up.

Yes. And one thing the congregants don't seem to factor in, is that Idaho's hospitals are now overwhelmed, so that the treatment received by Pastor Van Noy may not be readily available to all of them.

Idaho is working out a plan with hospitals in Seattle and Portland to send Covid patients to those cities:

Idaho COVID-19 patients may soon be sent to Portland, Seattle | KOIN.com

They are approaching their limits in terms of hospital capacity, particularly in the area around Coeur D'Alene.

It's an age-old problem, though. People do get decide certain risks for themselves and staying alive is not everyone's main goal. I would just be very concerned if I knew a coworker or someone else I had regular contact with was part of this laisser-faire attitude.