Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

[MistyWaters]

The Star article says the furnace guy was downstairs for an hour. It’s strange that did he not see Barry’s gloves and the house inspection report lying on the floor It’s not mentioned in the article that he did see them, and depending on which stairs he took he would have walked right by them. Floor plan is attached for the benefit of newer posters on this forum.

https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

I suppose he might’ve seen them but thought nothing of it as it would probably appear the items were accidentally dropped on the floor.

What I’m curious about is the Wednesday - who if anyone had access to the house during that particular day and is it possible somehow the killer entered and was waiting inside for the Shermans to get home. It was a very large home and on the Friday there was a fair amount of comings and goings. But it’s the Wednesday that’s never mentioned.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I suppose he might’ve seen them but thought nothing of it as it would probably appear the items were accidentally dropped on the floor.

What I’m curious about is the Wednesday - who if anyone had access to the house during that particular day and is it possible somehow the killer entered and was waiting inside for the Shermans to get home. It was a very large home and on the Friday there was a fair amount of comings and goings. But it’s the Wednesday that’s never mentioned.

I looked up that Wednesday in Donovan’s book. (‘The Day of’) I can’t find it in the book (maybe it was in an article?) but I remember that a room in their basement had been painted, and a window had been left open because of the fumes. (?)

Their personal trainer was at the home that Wednesday morning working with both Shermans.

After their workouts, BS left for work and a massage therapist came to the home to work on HS.

There was a lot of activity that day in the home. From the book:

“The ground floor of the Sherman household was a whirlwind of activity.

Gold chatted briefly with Elise Stern, the real estate agent who shared the Sherman house listing with Judi Gottlieb, who was on holidays. Stern was preparing for the return visit that afternoon of prospective buyers, a couple who had toured the house a few days earlier.

One worker was repairing a crack in the ceiling, someone else was doing painting touch-ups. Cleaners were vacuuming and wiping down surfaces.”

— The Billionaire Murders: The Mysterious Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman by Kevin Donovan
The Billionaire Murders: The Mysterious Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman

 

[dotr]

I looked up that Wednesday in Donovan’s book. (‘The Day of’) I can’t find it in the book (maybe it was in an article?) but I remember that a room in their basement had been painted, and a window had been left open because of the fumes. (?)

Their personal trainer was at the home that Wednesday morning working with both Shermans.

After their workouts, BS left for work and a massage therapist came to the home to work on HS.

There was a lot of activity that day in the home. From the book:

2019 rbbm.
Murdered billionaire couple posed like 'creepy' life-sized figurines found in home: report
''While police officers have said there were no signs of forced entry into the home, the Star’s investigation revealed that a window was left open in a basement room that was being painted in order to air out the smell. A door leading outside from the basement was also left unlocked when police arrived at the scene, according to the paper.

Donovan speculated that someone with knowledge of the home’s layout and who knew the door was often left unlocked would have been able to enter and exit the home undetected and leave through the neighbour’s yard.''

 

[dotr]

Full article.. no paywall. rbbm.
Wondering if the killer took a little nap in the bed while waiting for one or both of the S's to come home?
Would the frozen footprints be likely to have produced any clues?
speculation.


‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

“The bed was made but a bit untidy and the sink, which Honey uses in the morning, was dry,” Macatangay later told police. The bed was not made in the way Honey would normally make it and Macatangay wondered “if the Shermans went to sleep” the previous night.''


''The furnace repair man came upstairs after an hour and also left. As is often the case in search warrant documents made public, some of his statements are redacted with large black lines. As the man walked to his van he spotted frozen footprints on the partially heated ramp to the underground garage. They looked old, he thought.''

 

[deugirtni]

re the alarm service vehicle- and to obtain details from the system about which doors and windows were opened, and when that occurred. I assume the system would record that info.

Does the system have to be armed in order to have a record of all movements and openings/closings during specified time?

I'm not sure the guy in the service vehicle would have access to all the data re movements/openings/closings. I worked in an office bldg which got broken into during the hours while closed. I had to speak to a specific person in the security firm's office to get details of movements, times, which points were breached first, second, third, etc., to figure out exactly what happened and how long it took. Maybe in 2017 this could've been done from a printout by the serviceman in the truck? I would think he'd be there more to explain which functions and capabilities were applicable to the shermans' system and how the occupants set them and whether they were armed, etc.

In any case, hopefully LE was able to get a full printout of all actvity/movement in the home .. including the days preceding, in case a rear door had been left open at some point. Imo

 

[deugirtni]

I was trying to find info on which countries have that legal agmt with canada (MLAT), and specifically, if Japan was one of them. I came across an article which said that facebook requires the use of that treaty before giving up data. Just interesting, imo.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/facebook-canada-legal-battle-windsor-london-ontario-1.5377047

 

[deugirtni]

Unless it is heavily redacted, it seems there was no indication of foul play and/or an effort to clean up blood near the doorway..as we have speculated as a possibility over time. If there had been such evidence, I suspect the cleaning lady and/or trainer would've gone looking throughout the house for the owner(s), and/or called the realtor or MS or one of the kids (Alex?), considering Honey's car was there and the oddities with the door and alarm. Speculation.

 

[ldlager]

I’m not sure why you selected Japan in particular, but wasn’t it disclosed somewhere (Kd book maybe?) that one of the Sherman children (JS?) had just recently returned from japan before the murders? I seem to recall this from somewhere. Probably nothing, but so many moving parts here!

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I’m not sure why you selected Japan in particular, but wasn’t it disclosed somewhere (Kd book maybe?) that one of the Sherman children (JS?) had just recently returned from japan before the murders? I seem to recall this from somewhere. Probably nothing, but so many moving parts here!

Son Jonathan had just returned from Japan in the week of the murders, I’ve never read which day it was. The Shermans also had a plan for a trip to Japan in March and a trip to Israel in April.

I found an article from 2009 about Apotex acquiring the rights to produce a Japanese company’s fentanyl patch. FWIW
Apotex to Distribute Important Transdermal System for Management of Chronic<br />Pain in the U.S. Market

Does the system have to be armed in order to have a record of all movements and openings/closings during specified time?

I'm not sure the guy in the service vehicle would have access to all the data re movements/openings/closings. I worked in an office bldg which got broken into during the hours while closed. I had to speak to a specific person in the security firm's office to get details of movements, times, which points were breached first, second, third, etc., to figure out exactly what happened and how long it took. Maybe in 2017 this could've been done from a printout by the serviceman in the truck? I would think he'd be there more to explain which functions and capabilities were applicable to the shermans' system and how the occupants set them and whether they were armed, etc.

In any case, hopefully LE was able to get a full printout of all actvity/movement in the home .. including the days preceding, in case a rear door had been left open at some point. Imo

This is respectfully snipped from a past KW post:

“Hint: the police KNOW that only Barry and Honey entered their home.....until the real estate agent showed up on the Friday and found them by the pool. In other words, HOW did the phantom murderers leave!!!! The elaborate computerized alarm system showed: No windows or doors opened or closed after Barry came home. It was ONLY Barry and Honey in the house. No forced entry...No suspects. Wasn’t that what the police originally said?!?!”

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/canada-barry-75-honey-sherman-70-found-dead-toronto-15-dec-2017-7.365013/page-47#post-14081039

KW has been proven partially correct about them using the alarm system.

 

[Number8]

This is respectfully snipped from a past KW post:

“Hint: the police KNOW that only Barry and Honey entered their home.....until the real estate agent showed up on the Friday and found them by the pool. In other words, HOW did the phantom murderers leave!!!! The elaborate computerized alarm system showed: No windows or doors opened or closed after Barry came home. It was ONLY Barry and Honey in the house. No forced entry...No suspects. Wasn’t that what the police originally said?!?!”

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/canada-barry-75-honey-sherman-70-found-dead-toronto-15-dec-2017-7.365013/page-47#post-14081039

KW has been proven partially correct about them using the alarm system.

Except, even if that were true, as mentioned upthread, there was already an open window in the basement. And the suspect could have entered *with* BS/HS (i.e. ambushed them as they entered the house). JMO.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Except, even if that were true, as mentioned upthread, there was already an open window in the basement. And the suspect could have entered *with* BS/HS (i.e. ambushed them as they entered the house). JMO.

True. I don’t know how their system was set up, but in my experience windows can open a few inches before tripping the alarm system. Armed, or not.

I mention this because the police have said there was no sign of forced entry.

This is just my experience with my parents’ alarm system. It was a huge house with an average alarm system.

ETA: I was thinking in terms of what the alarm system data may have captured on that Wednesday.

 

[deugirtni]

Son Jonathan had just returned from Japan in the week of the murders, I’ve never read which day it was. The Shermans also had a plan for a trip to Japan in March and a trip to Israel in April.

I found an article from 2009 about Apotex acquiring the rights to produce a Japanese company’s fentanyl patch. FWIW
Apotex to Distribute Important Transdermal System for Management of Chronic<br />Pain in the U.S. Market





This is respectfully snipped from a past KW post:

“Hint: the police KNOW that only Barry and Honey entered their home.....until the real estate agent showed up on the Friday and found them by the pool. In other words, HOW did the phantom murderers leave!!!! The elaborate computerized alarm system showed: No windows or doors opened or closed after Barry came home. It was ONLY Barry and Honey in the house. No forced entry...No suspects. Wasn’t that what the police originally said?!?!”

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/canada-barry-75-honey-sherman-70-found-dead-toronto-15-dec-2017-7.365013/page-47#post-14081039

KW has been proven partially correct about them using the alarm system.

But in reality, KW would have no idea if any motion detectors were tripped between the time when Barry got home and when the housekeeper entered. Somehow, I'm feeling confident that police and/or private investigators wouldn't have shared investigative detail results with KW. Even if he had a best friend who worked at an alarm company who happened to monitor the Sherman home, and that friend had access to their info and also disclosed confidential customer details to KW, there is no saying whether it was a fact, or made up to stir the pot, etc. etc. etc. Although the alarm was present and may have been used, we don't know how it was used, ie whether or not it was actually monitored. Some people have a system, but they use it as more of a deterrent, rather than a call to police if it gets breached. They can still set it and an alarm will go off, but the sound will just be at the house and no security company would be notified. Considering the couple was frugal even though billionaires, and considering they reportedly left their door(s) unlocked, it's not a big stretch to imagine they may have also passed on the monthly monitoring bill. I'm hoping that they DID pay for monitoring as it seems the data would be useful to police, but who knows if they did or not at this point? I'm thinking KW also doesn't know, but may have wishful thinking. jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

I’m not sure why you selected Japan in particular, but wasn’t it disclosed somewhere (Kd book maybe?) that one of the Sherman children (JS?) had just recently returned from japan before the murders? I seem to recall this from somewhere. Probably nothing, but so many moving parts here!

Yes, that is why I was particularly wondering about whether Canada had one of those treaties with Japan. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

True. I don’t know how their system was set up, but in my experience windows can open a few inches before tripping the alarm system. Armed, or not.

I mention this because the police have said there was no sign of forced entry.

This is just my experience with my parents’ alarm system. It was a huge house with an average alarm system.

ETA: I was thinking in terms of what the alarm system data may have captured on that Wednesday.

Also, if B&H had an alarm system, but they didn't arm it unless they were gone from the house, it would make sense that the alarm was turned off when H arrived home and was never re-armed. Not like the killer would set the alarm after himself, right?

Although it is interesting that the door WAS locked. We have understood that the couple left the door UNlocked, but yet the couple was inside the home and the door somehow became locked sometime between when H arrived home on Wed evening and before the cleaning lady arrived on Friday morning. Was it one of those locks where you can just twist the little button on your way out and it locks the door, or was it a deadbolt requiring a key to lock from the outside?

ETA - if it was one of the button locks that can lock from the inside on your way out the door, did that unknown person ever enter the home (the one the neighbors have on video I believe, and was there for something like half an hour, I believe on the Thursday?), and possibly lock it on his way out after calling and finding nobody responding, or did he just hang around the doorway(s), hoping someone would answer the door?

 

[JDG]

Except, even if that were true, as mentioned upthread, there was already an open window in the basement. And the suspect could have entered *with* BS/HS (i.e. ambushed them as they entered the house). JMO.

But how did they leave and shut the door?? Assuming KW is correct? Thanks in advance.

 

[JDG]

But how did they leave and shut the door?? Assuming KW is correct? Thanks in advance.

Answering my own question, is that why the police checked the roof thoroughly? Were there skylights that could be opened and exited from without using a ladder?

If 'they' went in with Barry/Honey and exited via a skylight and then dropped to the ground?? Sounds like a movie but hey; what else to we have at this point?

 

[Sphinx]

Full article.. no paywall. rbbm.
Wondering if the killer took a little nap in the bed while waiting for one or both of the S's to come home?
Would the frozen footprints be likely to have produced any clues?
speculation.


‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

“The bed was made but a bit untidy and the sink, which Honey uses in the morning, was dry,” Macatangay later told police. The bed was not made in the way Honey would normally make it and Macatangay wondered “if the Shermans went to sleep” the previous night.''


''The furnace repair man came upstairs after an hour and also left. As is often the case in search warrant documents made public, some of his statements are redacted with large black lines. As the man walked to his van he spotted frozen footprints on the partially heated ramp to the underground garage. They looked old, he thought.''

Or maybe one of the killers sat on Honey's bed while he selected two of Barry's belts from a belt hanger that he took out of the closet. This is assuming they both slept in the same bedroom, and each had closets in the same bedroom. IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

But how did they leave and shut the door?? Assuming KW is correct? Thanks in advance.

It’s also possible the unlocked basement door was initially locked but then became the exit after the security system was shut off by the killer/s.

 

[deugirtni]

It’s also possible the unlocked basement door was initially locked but then became the exit after the security system was shut off by the killer/s.

I'm glad you mentioned the unlocked basement door.. I was going to mention earlier, but then I couldn't find anything to back it up and wondered if it was my imagination that the basement door had been found unlocked.

 

[MistyWaters]

Answering my own question, is that why the police checked the roof thoroughly? Were there skylights that could be opened and exited from without using a ladder?

If 'they' went in with Barry/Honey and exited via a skylight and then dropped to the ground?? Sounds like a movie but hey; what else to we have at this point?

I’m curious how long before the murders did the robbery through the skylights take place and if there is any connection. The Shermans must’ve not been home at the time of the theft so was the robber casing out the inside of the home and ensuring a security alarm wasn’t in place on the skylights? The media report mentions entering the house that way, but not exiting.

There is also a connection to Honey’s jewelry IIRC, the earring found on the curb of the street.


WARMINGTON: Cops' probe into 2017 Sherman murders 'very active' | Toronto Sun
“That someone could get into the home, kill the couple and escape undetected has neighbour Heather Gilbert hearkening back to something that occurred at the house prior to the double murder.

“I thought right away of the skylight on the roof of that house,” she said. “Somebody got on the roof and opened the skylight to lower themselves into their house to steal Honey’s jewelry.”

After learning of the robbery from police, Gilbert said, “I was worried because we also have skylights.”...”