OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #58

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Cool Cats said:
Good point but when DeWine was asked about the M grows being part of the motive he just said that there was an undercurrent of drugs not specifically that drugs were involved in the motive.

Sheiderer's testimony made it sound like custody was the only motive and from Canepa it sounded like it was custody and that all 4 got involved for family loyalty, that Jake's custody problem is all 4 Wagner's problem.

But yes drugs might factor into the motive.

Why Kenny was killed is key to me and I think if we knew this reason we would know the answer as to why all 8 were killed.

To kill 8 family members over custody is really unheard of and yes it could be drugs but with Kenny being a victim I am doubting it. I think something else is involved.
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All of the evidence points to it being about custody. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, unfortunately. He was very close to his brother and the murder of their family would have put him on a course to get revenge. Kenneth likely would have known exactly who did it. He knew all about the custody fight.
 
Cool Cats said:
Yup, they were not smart at all. They left copious amounts of evidence because I key are ad igmorantbadvtje day is long.
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Being dumb is no excuse, though. They need to be held accountable.

Their biggest problem was hubris, in not thinking they would get caught. It made them careless in some areas.

They were smart enough, though, to plan out these murders months in advance. They were smart enough to hack social media accounts, cell phones, to plant video cameras on the property of their victims and more.

The evidence is all there, pointing right to them. That's where they messed up - forgetting that investigators are even smarter and better equipped.
 
Betty P said:
Being dumb is no excuse, though. They need to be held accountable.
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Of course it is no excuse. We all know this or we wouldn't be on here. Cults consider themselves to be right and the final authority.

Canepa said the W's are cult-like and did everything together, including the 8 murders.
 
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Betty P said:
All of the evidence points to it being about custody. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, unfortunately. He was very close to his brother and the murder of their family would have put him on a course to get revenge. Kenneth likely would have known exactly who did it. He knew all about the custody fight.
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I have long believed that Kenny dropped Gary off at Chris's that night and saw the Wags parked on the road close to his brothers house. He would have known them and their vehicle and they knew him so he would have been at the SO bright and early the morning of the murders to tell what he saw. So he had to go. I feel strongly the evidence we know so far supports this. The fact that Chris was killed possibly a hour before Gary and the fact that Kenny was only shot once. No revenge or hatred in his killing, just necessity. I think this is going to come out at trials because of DeWine asking everyone living on UHR and others for videos they may have of that night. Even if the camera wasn't close to Chris's it still could have caught Kenny traveling home along that road.

JMO
 
Dudly said:
I for one was confused by the comment the brothers were on their way to get “their” truck when arrested. How did they still have “their” truck. If it was paid off, why didn’t they sell it for funds to use to go to Alaska? They apparently had not planned to come back. If it wasn’t paid off how did they keep up payments on it if they couldn’t afford to stay in Alaska?
Something about all that just doesn’t seem right. Maybe they were going to get “a” truck not “their” truck. Maybe none of it is correct. Who knows with this case...
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Just a little information where a truck is mentioned.

Jake worked on his family farm and drove a truck he co-owned with his brother George Wagner IV, custody records say.

Defiance Farms Facebook has a photo of a semi truck hauling cattle with the caption "hauling cattle."

His (Billy) sons, who both have trucks with large CB radio aerials with Ohio registration plates, work as mechanics and travel daily to tend to assignments they can find, loading their tools into the trunks of their trucks. (in Alaska)

There is a search Warrant for Jake's truck.

Shoe receipt and custody documents were found in Jake's truck inside a box marked "important papers."

Canepa:
".....they thought the truck they worked out of was bugged..."

Scheiderer:
When they were arrested they were a team - a truck driving team. They would switch drivers they would go over the road long hauls and they would switch drivers.

Canepa:
Ok so they would be driving in one truck together, and the one drives the other one sleeps or relaxes and they'd switch?

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
You indicated on the day they were arrested they were on their way to that job is that correct?

Scheiderer:
Yes they were driving to pick up their truck yes.

(Scheiderer's testimony during George's Bond Hearing)
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details | WKRC
 
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RAISINISBACK said:
I have long believed that Kenny dropped Gary off at Chris's that night and saw the Wags parked on the road close to his brothers house. He would have known them and their vehicle and they knew him so he would have been at the SO bright and early the morning of the murders to tell what he saw. So he had to go. I feel strongly the evidence we know so far supports this. The fact that Chris was killed possibly a hour before Gary and the fact that Kenny was only shot once. No revenge or hatred in his killing, just necessity. I think this is going to come out at trials because of DeWine asking everyone living on UHR and others for videos they may have of that night. Even if the camera wasn't close to Chris's it still could have caught Kenny traveling home along that road.

JMO
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Yes there must be a reason Chris was killed first as it seems to indicate in the coroner's report. But then again it looks like possible beforehand planning because it would have taken time to get Brownie used to one of them, and time to locate the many security cameras Kendra said he had all around because he was paranoid about security. They dismantled all of his security cameras and would need to be familiar with them.

...2 Cents...
 
RAISINISBACK said:
I have long believed that Kenny dropped Gary off at Chris's that night and saw the Wags parked on the road close to his brothers house. He would have known them and their vehicle and they knew him so he would have been at the SO bright and early the morning of the murders to tell what he saw. So he had to go. I feel strongly the evidence we know so far supports this. The fact that Chris was killed possibly a hour before Gary and the fact that Kenny was only shot once. No revenge or hatred in his killing, just necessity. I think this is going to come out at trials because of DeWine asking everyone living on UHR and others for videos they may have of that night. Even if the camera wasn't close to Chris's it still could have caught Kenny traveling home along that road.

JMO
Click to expand...
My exact scenario thought as well, but also exwife said Kenny would've killed whomever did it. He had to go no matter what.
 
Cool Cats said:
Just a little information where a truck is mentioned.

Jake worked on his family farm and drove a truck he co-owned with his brother George Wagner IV, custody records say.

Defiance Farms Facebook has a photo of a semi truck hauling cattle with the caption "hauling cattle."

His (Billy) sons, who both have trucks with large CB radio aerials with Ohio registration plates, work as mechanics and travel daily to tend to assignments they can find, loading their tools into the trunks of their trucks. (in Alaska)

There is a search Warrant for Jake's truck.

Shoe receipt and custody documents were found in Jake's truck inside a box marked "important papers."

Canepa:
".....they thought the truck they worked out of was bugged..."

Scheiderer:
When they were arrested they were a team - a truck driving team. They would switch drivers they would go over the road long hauls and they would switch drivers.

Canepa:
Ok so they would be driving in one truck together, and the one drives the other one sleeps or relaxes and they'd switch?

Scheiderer:
Correct.

Canepa:
You indicated on the day they were arrested they were on their way to that job is that correct?

Scheiderer:
Yes they were driving to pick up their truck yes.

(Scheiderer's testimony during George's Bond Hearing)
George Wagner request for bail denied after hearing reveals new details | WKRC
Click to expand...

Their truck as in the truck they owned, or their truck they were going to drive on a run...
 
Cool Cats said:
Yes there must be a reason Chris was killed first as it seems to indicate in the coroner's report. But then again it looks like possible beforehand planning because it would have taken time to get Brownie used to one of them, and time to locate the many security cameras Kendra said he had all around because he was paranoid about security. They dismantled all of his security cameras and would need to be familiar with them.

...2 Cents...
Click to expand...

They may have only taken the monitor/recorder parts of his security system that was in his camper. We don’t know that they hunted down all his cameras, I don’t believe...
 
Something that I can’t wait to see come out during the trials is, if the accused tried to make the crime scene look like, A Manleys committed the murders or the cartel did the killing anyone except a Wagner, so what was the marijuana growing in and could it have been planted on the Rhodens property the night of the murders? Plus there was a article in the Daily that disappeared, it talked about a needle inside a pop bottle, I wonder who’s DNA was on that hypodermic needle?
 
Cool Cats said:
Yes there must be a reason Chris was killed first as it seems to indicate in the coroner's report. But then again it looks like possible beforehand planning because it would have taken time to get Brownie used to one of them, and time to locate the many security cameras Kendra said he had all around because he was paranoid about security. They dismantled all of his security cameras and would need to be familiar with them.

...2 Cents...
Click to expand...
I believe that Brownie would have been familiar with Jake and Jake also knew where security cameras were at both Chris's and Kenny's. Keep in mind these were people very familiar with dogs (they had raised them for years) and technology (they hacked social media accounts and IIRC bugged phones and residences) so Jake (during the time he was with Hannah) may have been asked by Chris and Kenny to help install those cameras. Most people don't change their security cameras because their daughter/niece ends a relationship with her BF. My security cameras have survived a few breakups between my grandsons and ex GF's and I suspect that like most people Chris and Kenny never even thought about replacing or moving their cameras.

Along the lines of those cameras I wonder if any were installed inside the homes. I have 6 installed inside my home, 3 upstairs and 3 downstairs that are monitored 24/7 by a security company. My worrywart son had them installed just in case one of us should fall and can't get up (I swear he saw that commercial one too many times). They are so tiny that the ordinary person usually does not even see them. A little larger than the head of an eraser on a pencil. They are positioned to cover the entire inside of the house and have a panic fob you can wear around your neck or lay on your night stand. Some of them (the non public areas, like bedrooms, bathrooms) can of course be turned off with that same fob but still have the red medical emergency button which you can push. So I am wondering about Chris and Kenny having something of the same since they are very popular (many people have them here) and inexpensive (an initial purchase with a small monthly bill). Even if they did not have a security company monitoring them they still may have had them inside the houses.

You buy these cameras from the company so they are left intact if you switch companies or decide not to have any security at all or move to another house. I have been told by people that even if they are not actively monitored they still record and also even if you decide to end your contract with the security company the cameras can still be turned back on by federal LE. I am wondering if that is the electronic evidence the prosecution has and the unnamed confidential resource Angie C talked about. It makes sense that Fred may have had a security company like ADT install a system at one time that may have been no longer an active account but could still be activated to monitor the inside of her house. I realize I am not explaining this very well but an example is maybe she had a security company to install cameras in 2010, but decided she didn't want to pay the bill anymore. Those cameras could have been turned back on by LE to monitor conversations held inside her home in 2018. Or the Peterson RD house could have had them installed before the Wags bought it and they never knew they were there. The house in AK also. These cameras are so tiny and hidden unless you knew they were there you would not have noticed them.

Dudley you are kind of our tech guy, do you think this is possible and could be the "confidential Resource" Angie C talked about?

JMO
 
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CIA Team Member said:
My exact scenario thought as well, but also exwife said Kenny would've killed whomever did it. He had to go no matter what.
Click to expand...
I would have thought Lenny and some of the R's would have been said to kill whoever did it also. But I think even if Kenny had not been killed he would have let LE investigate and the legal process play out just like Lenny and the other families are doing. One thing to say it, another to actually do it. I think Kenny had to go because he saw the Wags on that road that night. I think this will come out in the trials.

JMO
 
RAISINISBACK said:
I believe that Brownie would have been familiar with Jake and Jake also knew where security cameras were at both Chris's and Kenny's. Keep in mind these were people very familiar with dogs (they had raised them for years) and technology (they hacked social media accounts and IIRC bugged phones and residences) so Jake (during the time he was with Hannah) may have been asked by Chris and Kenny to help install those cameras. Most people don't change their security cameras because their daughter/niece ends a relationship with her BF. My security cameras have survived a few breakups between my grandsons and ex GF's and I suspect that like most people Chris and Kenny never even thought about replacing or moving their cameras.

Along the lines of those cameras I wonder if any were installed inside the homes. I have 6 installed inside my home, 3 upstairs and 3 downstairs that are monitored 24/7 by a security company. My worrywart son had them installed just in case one of us should fall and can't get up (I swear he saw that commercial one too many times). They are so tiny that the ordinary person usually does not even see them. A little larger than the head of an eraser on a pencil. They are positioned to cover the entire inside of the house and have a panic fob you can wear around your neck or lay on your night stand. Some of them (the non public areas, like bedrooms, bathrooms) can of course be turned off with that same fob but still have the red medical emergency button which you can push. So I am wondering about Chris and Kenny having something of the same since they are very popular (many people have them here) and inexpensive (an initial purchase with a small monthly bill). Even if they did not have a security company monitoring them they still may have had them inside the houses.

You buy these cameras from the company so they are left intact if you switch companies or decide not to have any security at all or move to another house. I have been told by people that even if they are not actively monitored they still record and also even if you decide to end your contract with the security company the cameras can still be turned back on by federal LE. I am wondering if that is the electronic evidence the prosecution has and the unnamed confidential resource Angie C talked about. It makes sense that Fred may have had a security company like ADT install a system at one time that may have been no longer an active account but could still be activated to monitor the inside of her house. I realize I am not explaining this very well but an example is maybe she had a security company to install cameras in 2010, but decided she didn't want to pay the bill anymore. Those cameras could have been turned back on by LE to monitor conversations held inside her home in 2018. Or the Peterson RD house could have had them installed before the Wags bought it and they never knew they were there. The house in AK also. These cameras are so tiny and hidden unless you knew they were there you would not have noticed them.

Dudley you are kind of our tech guy, do you think this is possible and could be the "confidential Resource" Angie C talked about?

JMO
Click to expand...

It never occurred to me that Rhodens or Wagners could have been tied in to an actual security company and that:

"even if you decide to end your contract with the security company the cameras can still be turned back on by federal LE. "

Yes it's possible and downright sick and creepy if Jake helped install the cameras or gave advice on what to buy.

I just thought of something, maybe Kenny was killed because he had a M grow and Jake knew this. Chris had a M grow operation and Kenny grew M on a small scale according to Kendra.

So maybe the Wagners wanted the 2 grows to be found so it looked like a Cartel hit, plus it looked drug related with paper $ thrown on Kenny. Kenny could have been used as a "red herring" he had nothing to do with custody so to shoot him does make it look more drug related. Finding grows at 2 locations, not just at one location, fits that scenario.

...2 Cents...
 
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